I don't understand the logic of Thai Immigration

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, FigaroLucowski said:

My question is, why isn't income made in Thailand considered to be viable income by Thai immigration? 

 

I think it is, if you have a WP.

[scottiejohn]

Proof of Foreign source is only required for the initial Retirement process.  There is NO requirement to show source of income for subsequent extensions just proof that you have the funds as either 800000Bht in a (preferably) Thai instant access account, monthly credits of 65000Bht or a combination of the two which equals 800000Bht per year.  I assume the OP's Thai rents are being paid into a Thai bank account.

Stop panicking.  

Edited October 11, 2018 by scottiejohn

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

 

I think it is, if you have a WP.

Yes but the OP is on retirement extensions therefore he cannot have a work permit.

If the OP bank account shows at least 65000Bht/month from any source there should be no problem.  From the financial side all Imm will ask for is the blue stamped Thai Bank letter and an up to date bank book(s) showing the incomings.

[Peterw42]

54 minutes ago, FigaroLucowski said:

last year immigration didn't require proof of income, so i just got a notary ..proof of income from the US consulate. i have called 3 agents in chiang mai and they all say that immigration only accepts income made abroad for the retirement visa

 

Go and ask immigration if there is any change in requirements, its in the agents best interest to tell you otherwise to keep or get your business. There has been a lot of wild speculation in the UK income letter thread about income must come from outside thailand but no official announcement. These things spiral out of control, someone mentions a hypothetical maybe and next thing its picked up and quoted as fact.

As others have said income from outside thailand is sometimes required by a couple of immi offices but only for initial visa/extension and not for extensions. 

Hopefully someone with recent experience at Chiang Mai can confirm.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

He's on retirement extensions. It isn't legal to work on those. So it's a good guess he doesn't have a work permit!

I think you will find income and working are two different things. You can get income from the Thai stock exchange and thats not working. There was a thread a couple of years ago where the head of the Phuket labor office announced that a WP not required to rent out condo.

[NancyL]

The agents are taking a very conservative approach, not wanting any detail to trip up an extension application.  It could be worthwhile to either switch agents or D-I-Y.

 

And for those of you who are assuming the OP is working without a work permit if he's actively managing his properties, it's very likely that he's employing a rental agent to do the actual work and simply receiving the rental income each month and paying Thai income taxes as appropriate.  This is all very legal for someone on a retirement visa, much like investing money on the Thai stock exchange would be.

[FritsSikkink]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you will find income and working are two different things. You can get income from the Thai stock exchange and thats not working. There was a thread a couple of years ago where the head of the Phuket labor office announced that a WP not required to rent out condo.

You do if you rent out several, then it becomes a business.

Edited October 11, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

You do if you rent out several, then it becomes a business.

I think if someone else does all the running around etc its just passive income, you can own a business in Thailand, so long as you dont work in it, you dont need a WP

[flare]

I did my last extension a couple months ago (I'm American).  I had shown my proof of overseas income last year (a bank statement in addition to the income declaration letter from the consulate) for my initial visa and didn't provide it this year under the assumption that it wasn't necessary to provide it again (though I did hear the rules had changed, when I submitted my application I was told it wasn't needed and that the income declaration letter will be sufficient this time)- sure enough, I later received a call from immigration asking me to provide an income statement (from a foreign source) just like last year (which I gave them and had no further issues, and received my extension).

Edited October 11, 2018 by flare

[Trujillo]

The OP said: 

 

"I own property in Chiang Mai,..."

 

Unless you are a Thai citizen with an ID card, you don't own property here. I assume you mean that your girlfriend or wife owns "your" property. 

 

With this in mind, I am not sure if you are technically working or not. But it might raise some eyebrows if they investigated. If the actual owner of record just gives you the rent money and you do not have any involvement whatsoever, you might be fine. 

 

It does, however, seem to run counter to the spirit of the granting of a retirement visa, ie, you are supposed to be living off of your retirement funds (earned not from anything you did in Thailand). 

 

By the way, you are never too old to move somewhere else. 

[Jingthing]

We can own condos. Lots and lots of condos. Condos for days.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

23 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

The OP said: 

 

"I own property in Chiang Mai,..."

 

Unless you are a Thai citizen with an ID card, you don't own property here. I assume you mean that your girlfriend or wife owns "your" property. 

 

With this in mind, I am not sure if you are technically working or not. But it might raise some eyebrows if they investigated. If the actual owner of record just gives you the rent money and you do not have any involvement whatsoever, you might be fine. 

 

It does, however, seem to run counter to the spirit of the granting of a retirement visa, ie, you are supposed to be living off of your retirement funds (earned not from anything you did in Thailand). 

 

By the way, you are never too old to move somewhere else. 

OP probably owns a couple of foreign title condos. I presume the OP used his retirement funds to buy the condos and is living off it. He could have bought some thai shares and be living off the dividends as well. Lots of retires come here and buy a business and live off the it.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Peterw42

[Rhys]

..Thai wife solution?

 

[Peterw42]

26 minutes ago, Rhys said:

..Thai wife solution?

 

It would only change the amount 400/40 instead of 800/65, He would still need money in the bank or proof of income.

[Trujillo]

Could be condos, but he specifically said properties, more than once, I think. 

 

It's an interesting question. Is income generated in Thailand on a retirement visa allowable? 

[JaiLai]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

It would only change the amount 400/40 instead of 800/65, He would still need money in the bank or proof of income.

He could get a Non O based on marraige - job done.

[FritsSikkink]

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I think if someone else does all the running around etc its just passive income, you can own a business in Thailand, so long as you dont work in it, you dont need a WP

"you can own a business in Thailand, so long as you dont work in it, you dont need a WP"

Yes

"its just passive income"

No, it is revenue of the business. The business has to pay tax over its profit, if you don't work in the business, you don't get a salary, you are just a shareholder.

Edited October 12, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[DPKANKAN]

17 hours ago, FigaroLucowski said:

thank u for the kind reply, I'm from the USA, they told me this at OS Thai visa, the agent i have been using

 

If you are legit and have 65,000 a month coming in then why use a visa agent???

Edited October 12, 2018 by DPKANKAN
Spelling

[jesimps]

11 hours ago, Trujillo said:

The OP said: 

 

"I own property in Chiang Mai,..."

 

Unless you are a Thai citizen with an ID card, you don't own property here. I assume you mean that your girlfriend or wife owns "your" property. 

 

With this in mind, I am not sure if you are technically working or not. But it might raise some eyebrows if they investigated. If the actual owner of record just gives you the rent money and you do not have any involvement whatsoever, you might be fine. 

 

It does, however, seem to run counter to the spirit of the granting of a retirement visa, ie, you are supposed to be living off of your retirement funds (earned not from anything you did in Thailand). 

 

By the way, you are never too old to move somewhere else. 

Wrong! You're allowed to own at least one condo.

[stillhereandlovinit]

10 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

If you are legit and have 65,000 a month coming in then why use a visa agent???

To save lots of hassle at immigration. But saying that it doesnt seem to have worked out well so far.

[jesimps]

10 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Could be condos, but he specifically said properties, more than once, I think. 

 

It's an interesting question. Is income generated in Thailand on a retirement visa allowable? 

Last I heard condos were property.

[Time Traveller]

16 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Renting out property as business is working and you need to pay tax. Working on a retirement visa isn't allowed.

 

 

I don't know what business school you went to, or where you got your law degree from, but your numerous comments are about the most clueless, ill-informed and misleading advice on this forum. 

 

Owning a property to rent out is NOT working. It's what is referred to as passive or unearned income. Hence you do not need to register a business, nor require a work permit. Just the same way as you do not need a work permit to invest in a Mutual fund, or deposit money in the bank. These too are sources of passive income that are NOT considered to be working. Immigration have already ruled on this.

How many times do we have to explain that on this forum? I can only think that broke farangs who are jealous toward those that actually own assets and don't need to work, keep trying to raise the old Work Permit complaint to give them the feeling of schadenfreude 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Time Traveller

[1337markus]

17 hours ago, FigaroLucowski said:

im researching it now... so far two agents have said CM immigration will only accept income from abroad

 

Interesting so CM Immigration make up new rules again.

[chicowoodduck]

TIT= Thai Is Thailand.....sounds like you are on a slippery slope out of LOS?......enjoy the ride while you still can.....woo, woo....????

[simoh1490]

16 hours ago, Vacuum said:

 

Renting ot properties (as in more than one) with a retirement extension, I don't think so.

If an agent is used, I think so!

[BigC]

Are you applying for a retirement visa or some kind of non O

 

for business visa you need  a work permit 

 

so if your working then it’s obvious your money comes from Thailand 

 

that does make sense why they ask you to show income from

overseas if you have a work permit to make money in Thailand 

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

'Logic'?  You know we are living in Thailand, right?  

 

 

So you're saying your decision to live in Thailand was emotional or financial and lacked a well thought-out logical basis. Don't beat yourself up. 

[KCPhuket]

Simple...there is none.

[Pilotman]

You say you 'own' properties in Thailand.  Are they condos that you own in your name, or houses owned by a company of which you are a minority shareholder?  If the former, maybe that will be okay, if the latter, then the income should be in the form of a wage ,or dividend and you may  have a problem with WP laws. I guess that what the idiot lazy useless Embassy may have done, is place a searchlight on 'income' in general and while nothing has yet changed with Thai Immigration, , it may well change very soon. 

[Trujillo]

The OP said: 
My question is, why isn't income made in Thailand considered to be viable income by Thai immigration? 

 

So, this whole thread revolves around this question. Can anyone competently answer this?