Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Spidey]

46 minutes ago, Pib said:

If a major part of the rationale was we can stop issuing income letters because they are not really needed per "BE review" of Thai Immigration policies, but it turns out the BE review of TI polices was just wrong/incomplete/misunderstood then I think the BE would reverse their decision especially since it is having such a negative impact on many Brits in Thailand.

They don't give a monkeys about you. They ceased the income letters because the auditors deemed it financially prudent. That fact won't change. They know exactly what they have done. The BE waffle about Thai Immigration providing an alternate method for verifying monthly income is just that, waffle, a smokescreen to placate the plebs. I don't think for one second that the BE believe that guff themselves.

 

They are quite happy to lie to us and throw us under the bus as long as the auditors are happy.

 

What downside is there for the British Embassy in pursuing this course of action?

[Expattaff1308]

Write to the Ambassador explaining the advice we are being given by the BE contradicts what we are being told by our Immigration Offices. and by doing so are putting us in jeopardy of being refused an extension of stay...Done mine already!

http://Thailand British Ambassador to Thailand Email address contact and ...

 

 

Thailand
Brian Davidson	British Ambassador to Thailand
Email	[email protected]
Website	https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok
Personal Twitter	@KentBKK
Advice from CEOemail.com	How to write your email to a CEO

Edited October 14, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Immigration have NOT said they will not accept income letters. The British Consulate have said that they will no longer issue them.   Sad to hear about your brother n!

I was hoping to use his legacy to mec as my income proof... ???? 

[Torrens54]

On 10/13/2018 at 9:02 PM, Runamile said:

So that only leaves a couple of problems, assuming there really is 400,000 Baht in the bank:

1. Having 400,000 Thai Baht.

2. Being willing to tie up a moderate sum of money in a globally useless soft currency of a politically unstable country.

Up to you.

No one is FORCING you to stay here !

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

Up to you.

No one is FORCING you to stay here !

The usual "If you don't like it go home" type reply - yawn!

 

What if you don't have the money annually to meet the requirements, but can not lay your hands on 400,000 baht immediately?

 

I have asked this before, but the only reply I get seems similar to the above!

[sambum]

4 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Write to the Ambassador explaining the advice we are being given by the BE contradicts what we are being told by our Immigration Offices. and by doing so are putting us in jeopardy of being refused an extension of stay...Done mine already!

http://Thailand British Ambassador to Thailand Email address contact and ...

 

 

Thailand
Brian Davidson	British Ambassador to Thailand
Email	[email protected]
Website	https://www.gov.uk/government/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok
Personal Twitter	@KentBKK
Advice from CEOemail.com	How to write your email to a CEO

Same, same but have you had a constructive reply yet rather than the usual acknowledgement of receipt of your email? 

[rickudon]

Apart from the incompetence and indifference shown by the UK embassy to those UK expats who used the income letter route, what angers me is yet again a change which will cost me. I'm lucky enough to meet the 40,000 baht a month income level comfortably at this time, but i understand that the proposed Embassy alternative (which immigration currently do not accept anyway) would see most British expats being assessed on NET income, rather than GROSS, so some will fall foul of the limits. Ok, I COULD do the 400,000 baht in the bank route (although i would have to strip my UK savings) but i chose instead the letter route for a number of reasons.......

 

1. Like many, not keen on leaving 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account as willingness of Thai banks to cover fraud is somewhat suspect, You hear stories every year of accounts being emptied and banks refusing responsibility. Admittedly a rare event.

 

2. I can earn up to 3 x more income on my money if kept in the UK. That is 8,000 baht more..... (exchange rates ignored).

 

3, I have also found that using my credit card  was cheaper than doing interbank transfers (some would dispute this, but i did my homework and was true for MY credit card) and i could get my money on demand rather than having to plan ahead. And of course, only bring in what i needed. Ok, not directly relevant.

 

4. If i didn't keep much cash in my Thai bank, didn't need to worry about inheritance issues as to who gets the money, and the need for a Thai will (I have a UK will that adequately deals with who gets what after my death, and my wife has no faith or understanding in the Thai legal system, but that is another story).

 

So just another case of a shitty decision which will cost me more and cause me more inconvenience. Plus my sympathy to those more seriously inconvenienced.

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

A lot will depend on the true rationale given the "BE approval official" for doing away with the income letter.  By approval official I mean a senior individual at the embassy (not the embassy rep that was doing the radio interview) that approved the recommendation of the staff and/or efficiency audit report if such a report was done.

 

If a major part of the rationale was we can stop issuing income letters because they are not really needed per "BE review" of Thai Immigration policies, but it turns out the BE review of TI polices was just wrong/incomplete/misunderstood then I think the BE would reverse their decision especially since it is having such a negative impact on many Brits in Thailand.

The BE reviewed the UK implementation of TI requirements and concluded that they were unable/unwilling to deliver going forwards. Not difficult to understand.

[SheungWan]

53 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Apart from the incompetence and indifference shown by the UK embassy to those UK expats who used the income letter route, what angers me is yet again a change which will cost me. I'm lucky enough to meet the 40,000 baht a month income level comfortably at this time, but i understand that the proposed Embassy alternative (which immigration currently do not accept anyway) would see most British expats being assessed on NET income, rather than GROSS, so some will fall foul of the limits. Ok, I COULD do the 400,000 baht in the bank route (although i would have to strip my UK savings) but i chose instead the letter route for a number of reasons.......

1. Like many, not keen on leaving 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account as willingness of Thai banks to cover fraud is somewhat suspect, You hear stories every year of accounts being emptied and banks refusing responsibility. Admittedly a rare event.

2. I can earn up to 3 x more income on my money if kept in the UK. That is 8,000 baht more..... (exchange rates ignored).

3, I have also found that using my credit card  was cheaper than doing interbank transfers (some would dispute this, but i did my homework and was true for MY credit card) and i could get my money on demand rather than having to plan ahead. And of course, only bring in what i needed. Ok, not directly relevant.

4. If i didn't keep much cash in my Thai bank, didn't need to worry about inheritance issues as to who gets the money, and the need for a Thai will (I have a UK will that adequately deals with who gets what after my death, and my wife has no faith or understanding in the Thai legal system, but that is another story).

So just another case of a shitty decision which will cost me more and cause me more inconvenience. Plus my sympathy to those more seriously inconvenienced.

So sorry you have been inconvenienced.

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, Spidey said:

They don't give a monkeys about you. They ceased the income letters because the auditors deemed it financially prudent. That fact won't change. They know exactly what they have done. The BE waffle about Thai Immigration providing an alternate method for verifying monthly income is just that, waffle, a smokescreen to placate the plebs. I don't think for one second that the BE believe that guff themselves.

They are quite happy to lie to us and throw us under the bus as long as the auditors are happy.

What downside is there for the British Embassy in pursuing this course of action?

Keep the auditors happy. I saw one guy after he was hit by a bus on Second Road. Not nice.

[cmsanuk]

Me

Sent from my moto g(6) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pattaya46]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

What if you don't have the money annually to meet the requirements,

but can not lay your hands on 400,000 baht immediately?

You don't need this money "immediately"

You still can use the income letter way for (at least) 6-9 months.

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

Same, same but have you had a constructive reply yet rather than the usual acknowledgement of receipt of your email? 

Dear sit,

we have spoken with the prime minister concerning your problems, Mrs May says 'up yours'. 

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, rickudon said:

Apart from the incompetence and indifference shown by the UK embassy to those UK expats who used the income letter route, what angers me is yet again a change which will cost me. I'm lucky enough to meet the 40,000 baht a month income level comfortably at this time, but i understand that the proposed Embassy alternative (which immigration currently do not accept anyway) would see most British expats being assessed on NET income, rather than GROSS,

I think that I and the majority who rely on proving monthly income, do so by showing bank statements. This shows net income not gross. I do provide other documents as backup which do show gross income, but as my evidence is primarily based on bank statements, it's my net income that appears on my form.

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, sambum said:

Same, same but have you had a constructive reply yet rather than the usual acknowledgement of receipt of your email? 

Brian Davidson has replied to all expats collectively. His reply was:

 

"Who are you? Who are you? Who are you?" followed by the good old British 2 fingered salute. ????

[sfokevin]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

So sorry you have been inconvenienced.

And mind the gap...

[Pattaya46]

4 hours ago, rickudon said:

// but i understand that the proposed Embassy alternative () would see most British expats being assessed on NET income, rather than GROSS, so some will fall foul of the limits. //

I never thought about that before, but looks like it was a way to cheat on Thai rules . I am pretty sure that when Thai Immigration wrote the rules, they were thinking about NET income. Gross income means nothing for them.

As for myself, I have always shown to my French Embassy proof of a NET yearly income over 65'000 x 12.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Brian Davidson has replied to all expats collectively. His reply was:

 

"Who are you? Who are you? Who are you?" followed by the good old British 2 fingered salute. ????

That makes him a very warm human being.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I never thought about that before, but looks like it was a way to cheat on Thai rules . I am pretty sure that when Thai Immigration wrote the rules, they were thinking about NET income. Gross income means nothing for them.

As for myself, I have always shown to my French Embassy proof of a NET yearly income over 65'000 x 12.

Same here, net income is what you can spend.

[giddyup]

7 hours ago, sambum said:

The usual "If you don't like it go home" type reply - yawn!

 

What if you don't have the money annually to meet the requirements, but can not lay your hands on 400,000 baht immediately?

 

I have asked this before, but the only reply I get seems similar to the above!

Simple. You don't qualify.

[Pib]

 Seen several posts saying "net" income is required.  The Immigration Police Order does not reference gross or net income....it just says income.   And since it does not reference either, to me that implies gross income as they don't want to get into various deductions ("voluntary" or involuntary) that could apply such as various possible taxes, voluntary allotments, etc.  

 

For Retirement

 

For Marriage

 

Go here to review a copy of the police order.

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So what's your 30K visa agent saying about your prospects -- if/when there's no longer any UK Embassy income letters?

 

I haven't asked yet as it would be pointless, bearing in mind nobody knows what is going to happen.

[Expattaff1308]

9 hours ago, sambum said:

Same, same but have you had a constructive reply yet rather than the usual acknowledgement of receipt of your email? 

Nope

[ginjag]

44 pages, and no one has an update.  So,  If the Immigration office cannot make the UK Embassy issue, then it will have to draw up an alternative.   (1) accept a UK bank statement with the direct debit entered monthly  example latest 3 month statements to arrive at your Thai address. Because the postage envelope also helps to verify.  OR   (2) only allow 800,000 in a Thai bank account deposited 3 months prior to Immigration reporting date.

[ginjag]

Why not close this thread  ??     44 pages of what  ??.  Please open a new thread only when the Immigration respond to an alternative......I go in to the thread in case of a new directive but it is the same   bla bla bla  he said this and he said that.   Some of the replies have been good and gives us others problems they face.  

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Why not close this thread  ??     44 pages of what  ??.  Please open a new thread only when the Immigration respond to an alternative......I go in to the thread in case of a new directive but it is the same   bla bla bla  he said this and he said that.   Some of the replies have been good and gives us others problems they face.  

Bla bla bla -- then don't read it.

If there is a major new announcement of substance it's highly likely a new thread will be started to highlight that.

[ginjag]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bla bla bla -- then don't read it.

If there is a major new announcement of substance it's highly likely a new thread will be started to highlight that.

Think you get the wrong meaning  (bla Bla Bla) I was referring to a few that just reply to people just to show they have loads of funds, and ask them to go home etc.  I read it because I get a notification on my computer and not know if it is new news or same as the 500 posts we already have had---Understand Jingthing.  Your reply is exactly what I said, so close this one as it is now past sell by date  OR try to break the record for the longest topic  lol

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by ginjag

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

44 pages, and no one has an update.  So,  If the Immigration office cannot make the UK Embassy issue, then it will have to draw up an alternative.   (1) accept a UK bank statement with the direct debit entered monthly  example latest 3 month statements to arrive at your Thai address. Because the postage envelope also helps to verify.  OR   (2) only allow 800,000 in a Thai bank account deposited 3 months prior to Immigration reporting date.

Most  foreign bank statements show the exact date of the foreign debit; the exact amount  debited; the exchange rate for the date; and the Thai ATM location where it occurred.  

The person standing in front of the IO Officer would also have the Debit Cards to Show and could also have letters from their pension provider or other verifying amounts.

The actual Police Order as posted above- states  for income method-  Evidence of 65K per month and makes no mention of Embassy Letter-  However- the handouts at most Imm Offices indicate Embassy Letter backed up by confirmation of amount and source.

If BE goes ahead with this charade- I would imagine  a long tussle with Imm offices that didn't get the word and many calls to BE from citizens asking for help. If one  has been providing accurate info the  supporting evidence is easy to assemble.  The issue will remain the tussle between Thai Imm and the BE.  It would be hoped the BE is reading TV and NOW starting to understand the concern of its citizens and others and NOW understands the Thai Imm law and how it works,.   The person from BE interview by Tommy Dee showed no real understanding of this issue.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Thaidream

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

ostr foreign bank statements show the exact date of the foreign debit; the exact amount  debited; the exchange rate for the date; and the Thai ATM location where it occurred.  

The person standing in front of the IO Officer would also have the Debit Cards to Show and could also have letters from their pension provider or other verifying amounts.

The actual Police Order as posted above- states  for income method-  Evidence of 65K per month and makes no mention of Embassy Letter-  However- the handouts at most Imm Offices indicate Embassy Letter backed up by confirmation of amount and source.

If BE goes ahead with this charade- I would imagine  a long tussle with Imm offices that didn't get the word and many calls to BE from citizens asking for help. If one  has been providing accurate info the  supporting evidence is easy to assemble.  The issue will remain the tussle between Thai Imm and the BE.  It would be hoped the BE is reading TV and NOW starting to understand the concern of its citizens and others and NOW understands the Thai Imm law and how it works,.   The person from BE interview by Tommy Dee showed no real understanding of this issue.

To my mind all this B Embassy involvement should STOP.     Immigration please re think of the UK--or Thai bank statements clearly stating the pension entries monthly--to offset the Full 800k-----even the air mail envelope posted to Thailand enclosing the said monthly Bank statement.

[55Jay]

29 minutes ago, ginjag said:

To my mind all this B Embassy involvement should STOP.     Immigration please re think of the UK--or Thai bank statements clearly stating the pension entries monthly--to offset the Full 800k-----even the air mail envelope posted to Thailand enclosing the said monthly Bank statement.

See now, you vented and got your opinions lodged on this thread, basically repeating what's already been said for 44 pages, and after you called for a close to this topic! 

 

Also, FYI, no use addressing Thai Immigration directly here; they aren't likely to read it.  But still, feels good, doesn't it?  ????