Sustainability of Pattaya's shopping malls

[sexyman]

Now Pattaya has another huge mall Terminal 21. I'm just wondering how these malls can survive, shop rents are on par with malls in farang countries, the goods they sell are the same price and sometimes more expensive than what is sold back in farang land. Who buys these things, I have no idea. Long term expats certainly don't fork out much cash for clothes (especially brands) and the Chinese and Indian tourists hardly spend there money on brand name goods when visiting Pattaya, the Chinese have got many choices in China with the same goods easily available in there. 

Central seems very quiet after Terminal opened, I wonder how sustainable these mega malls are in the long term. 

[champers]

Unless you have personally invested in a mall, why worry?

[AlexCanada]

There will always be tenants for the shopping malls.  The only failure where you see empty shops or space is Harbor Mall.  Maybe they are asking too much for rental space but more likely because all Thai will go shop at Big C Extra over Harbor.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, AlexCanada said:

There will always be tenants for the shopping malls.  The only failure where you see empty shops or space is Harbor Mall.  Maybe they are asking too much for rental space but more likely because all Thai will go shop at Big C Extra over Harbor.

The Avenue has plenty of empty units, and the list of places that have failed there is very long indeed.

[how241]

The Harbour Mall is never crowded.  Problem to enter/exit  and park.  Especially in a car.

[scubascuba3]

Unless you have personally invested in a mall, why worry?

Out of interest maybe?

[champers]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

5 hours ago, champers said:

Unless you have personally invested in a mall, why worry?

Out of interest maybe?

Interested? Yes. Worried? No. I don't like to see any business fail. 

I have only visited Harbor mall once and it looked like it was aimed at children and their parents, of course. 

[galt67]

15 minutes ago, champers said:

Interested? Yes. Worried? No. I don't like to see any business fail. 

I have only visited Harbor mall once and it looked like it was aimed at children and their parents, of course. 

 

Harbor's 'target customer' definitely seems families with children.

 

Several children's stores, multiple amusement facilities, skating rink, etc.

 

On weekends, it's (relatively) busy versus weekdays.

[champers]

4 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Harbor's 'target customer' definitely seems families with children.

 

Several children's stores, multiple amusement facilities, skating rink, etc.

 

On weekends, it's (relatively) busy versus weekdays.

I would guess Harbor is busy any time school's out. Weekends, early evenings and the (plentiful) school holidays.

[scubascuba3]

I would guess Harbor is busy any time school's out. Weekends, early evenings and the (plentiful) school holidays.

Harbor Mall is Tukcom also, maybe it will take over from the run down Pattaya Tai version one day.

Some of these shopping centres have shitty access and exit. Harbor mall is difficult to turn right when exiting. Tesco/Decathlon Pattaya Nua can't go right, pain in the backside. I imagine T21 may have similar issues

[fforest1]

Well in Bangkok the number of malls is insane....Yet they keep building more and more all the time....Its hard to believe that Pattaya can support so many malls but it some how seems to...

 

Its sure not the western farangs keeping all those shops open...If you look who is in all the shops buying all the name brand over priced crapolla you hardly ever see any white faces save for a few Russians....

Middle eastern looking people seem to be big buyers..

 

Westerns spend their money on whats really important like beer and GoGo bars.....

[Daz Manc]

Mikes Mall is no longer really a mall at all, it's being turned into a hotel, only reason to go now is to buy the knock off copies on the ground floor, it's more like a Market Hall now

 

Royal Garden is now dead as a Dodo, sure no shops make money there.

 

The Avenue is a total failure, only survives from the open air market traders selling stuff on low rents in the central area

 

The Bay is also a total failure, only has 3 tennants, McDonalds, Boots and Starbucks, no other units have been let in over a year, same as the Avenue, it survives from the low rent central area selling street food.

 

Harbor has to be considered a failure also, because all of the small businesses which opened when the mall did have all closed down, it's full of empty units, the 1 thing Harbor did right was to fill the place with multinational shops when it first opened and they have the money to wait to see if things improve.

 

Central Festival was dead when it first opened, I remember walking through it in the 1st week and being nearly the only person on each floor as I looked around, that changed after a few weeks and it does well now, don't know if that will continue with T21 opening.

 

Now we have Terminal 21, I went on the 19th and again with friends on 21st and it was really packed, so different to when Central F. opened. I am guessing that for the 1st month or so it will be a curiosity, then we have High Season, so it will still be packed, the crunch may come next Low Season about April, after the curiosity is gone and the tourists also, then will be the test. Only problem with the position for most people,  is getting back on a baht bus down beach road then having to walk up from the beach.

One clever thing they have done is kept the Food Court prices incredibly Low, to attract people.

IMO a mall cannot survive on tourists alone, it must attract Thais or it will die.

 

 

[newnative]

    I think Festival and T21 will both do well. Festival was busy today but not in the horrible way it used to be.  Still a long wait to get out of the parking garage around 4:30.  T21 looked very busy as we drove past.            Harbor had way too many restaurants when it opened and it never caught on much as an IT center.  Supply and demand has whittled down some of the shops and restaurants.  I think the offices on the upper floors could help sustain the restaurants and shops during the slow weekdays if they were all rented out but I doubt they are. 

     Harbor should steeply reduce the rents to help maintain the shops that are there and attract new ones--especially until the office space is fully rented.  Some of the original IT space has been turned into kid's amusements, which makes the mall more of an attraction for kids, but makes it even less a draw during the week for the rest of us.  

     Written off Royal Garden with its steep parking fees.  And not enough 'there' there to make it worth the bother.  Same with Avenue--used to only go for the movie theater but lately have been going to Festival and will probably go to T21 instead as there is more to do after the movie at both malls.   Like Central Marina for grocery shopping, banking, bill paying, department store shopping, etc.  Easy in and out.  If Marina kicks out Big C I'm probably gone too.

[1FinickyOne]

Market factors will take care of everything... rest easy. 

[Henryford]

13 hours ago, how241 said:

The Harbour Mall is never crowded.  Problem to enter/exit  and park.  Especially in a car.

Really? I think Harbour is one of the easiest Malls to drive into and park, never had a wait or problem.

[fforest1]

26 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Really? I think Harbour is one of the easiest Malls to drive into and park, never had a wait or problem.

Easy because no one goes there....

[Peterw42]

My prediction for T21, it will go the same way as all the other malls, the actual shops wont sell much and the restaurants get their bare minimum of customers etc. Then they will start doing what the other malls do, markets or stalls in the free space, forecourt or carpark etc, Free space becomes little pop up markets stalls selling normal Thai stuff at normal Thai prices. The area around the airplane will become a fri, sat, sun night market, and be the part of the mall that is busy and trades.

The Avenue and Central, central marina do it now, ground floor and front and back of the mall turns into a normal Thai nightmarket each night.

 

Empty mall in the background and a night market in the carpark. Why build the mall ?

 

[GWS]

 You would be suprised how many BBK people shop in Pattaya on weekends. Having 3-4 big shopping malls so close to each other, all within a 10-15 minute drive of each other is something that is not possible in most areas of Bangkok which makes Pattaya appealing for some.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

you for got one group - the russians, and russian mafia. they are full of cash who needs badly to be spent / washed up. some experts say that 70% of pattaya real estate are bought with white russians black money/.

[GLewis]

21 hours ago, sexyman said:

Now Pattaya has another huge mall Terminal 21. I'm just wondering how these malls can survive, shop rents are on par with malls in farang countries, the goods they sell are the same price and sometimes more expensive than what is sold back in farang land. Who buys these things, I have no idea. Long term expats certainly don't fork out much cash for clothes (especially brands) and the Chinese and Indian tourists hardly spend there money on brand name goods when visiting Pattaya, the Chinese have got many choices in China with the same goods easily available in there. 

Perhaps Thai's both local and those visiting. They do love to shop...

[fforest1]

58 minutes ago, GWS said:

 You would be suprised how many BBK people shop in Pattaya on weekends. Having 3-4 big shopping malls so close to each other, all within a 10-15 minute drive of each other is something that is not possible in most areas of Bangkok which makes Pattaya appealing for some.

You must be joking.....

 

The area around Siam Square in Bangkok is nothing but shopping malls next to shopping malls....

 

Bangkok has loads and loads of shopping malls all over Bangkok.....NO need to drive to Pattaya at all ever......

[sexyman]

Thai people just don't have the salaries and buying power to support these shops in the malls. Perhaps the hi so in BKK can afford to buy brand names, but the farangs can shop in their country for similar, if not cheaper prices. And those Russians don't really spend, they wander around in wife beaters and goofy shorts, and the Russian women are hardly fashionistas. 

[balo]

 

 

 

Terminal 21. I'm just wondering how these malls can survive, shop rents are on par with malls in farang countries

 

 

I have to stop you there, it's not true that the rent is the same as in the west , far from it. For instance the food court who sells 30 baht dishes, are not paying rent at all. They are there to attract more customers so they have an agreement with the mall.

The other restaurants are paying less rent the first year until they have settled down

 

Some restaurants who cant make it will soon be replaced with others. I am worried about Hawker Chan, because they have a big restaurant next to Foodland, and no customers, the locals are not impressed. I think they will be out within a year.

 

But T21 as a mall will survive , just look at T21 in Asoke.

 

[HAKAPALITA]

As long as money needs Laundering they will be OK


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[janclaes47]

19 hours ago, AlexCanada said:

The only failure where you see empty shops or space is Harbor Mall.

You forgot Avenue, Tukcom, The Bay and also that new shopping "village" opposite Index.

 

Now lets wait and see how many spaces will become vacant in the malls that didn't have many prior to T21 opening.

[janclaes47]

9 minutes ago, balo said:

For instance the food court who sells 30 baht dishes, are not paying rent at all. They are there to attract more customers so they have an agreement with the mall.

But that is a moot point as it is only temporarily

[Jingthing]

Well, for the time being as they're literally giving away food now (or close enough) at T21 I'm "buy-cutting" my regular places. But only temporarily. 

I hold a contrarian view to the doomsayers. I think ALL of the current malls (except that sad little Bay place on the beach in North Pattaya) have their own little (or big) niche markets. At least for the next decade or so. 

Especially Central. That place will keep going well. More central location, actual major department store, sea views, excellent grocery store, etc.

As far as the Thai market segment that likes to go to the same old chains at any and all malls that have them, sure they'll try out their same chain at T21 to see T21 at least one time. But if it's more convenient for them later, they'll go back to Central, etc.

To me that was the funniest thing to watch on the opening week at T21. All these amazing and wonderful unique new restaurants in there, yet the same old chains that already exist here other places were totally packed with Thais. Talk about being unadventurous.

[Caine]

Never mind the malls I’ll stick with Best supermarket , over the road from Terminal 21. Still the best bread in Pattaya.

[jrjrjr]

Thai and not cheap charlies foreigners buy expensive goods all the time. My car costs $200000 here when it costs $100000 back home, but who cares ?!

 

 

[jrjrjr]

5 hours ago, GWS said:

 You would be suprised how many BBK people shop in Pattaya on weekends. Having 3-4 big shopping malls so close to each other, all within a 10-15 minute drive of each other is something that is not possible in most areas of Bangkok which makes Pattaya appealing for some.

 

This is clearly the truth that so many narrow minded grumpy expats will never be able to understand. How funny it is that they think that their low so life is all Thai people life...