Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[zydeco]

4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The Embassy Letter will be issued until 1 Jan 2019

Embassy open on New Year's?  Or the day before?  Or any of the days between 24 December and 2 January?  I don't know.  Never been scheduled to do anything around that time at the embassy.  But could make for a huge bottleneck for appointments.

[Pattaya46]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

> Non OA - home country

 

Because shipping yourself across the planet in a tube to deliver paperwork which could be sent electronically, in this day and age, is important, somehow?

You don't need to go back your country, but just to exit Thailand and send your documents home for a friend to get your Non-OA. With express mail service it's less than 1 week all, and then back in Thailand.

[JackThompson]

44 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's a little emotional to think you're "not wanted". Thailand hasn't changed the financial requirements.

The "in the bank" method is the same, but they have definitely changed the income-method, unless they continue to accept the total of applicant's gross-income from foreign-sources (as were the basis of our income-letters) - not this new "40K/65K Baht imported every month" business.

 

32 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Sorry, I assumed income affadavits were the US equivalent of the pension affirmation letters issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok to UK citizens applying for visa renewals based upon monthly income remitted to Thailand. Am I wrong?

There was nothing in the USA income-doc about importing the money - just total gross income.  Similarly (to my understanding) with the British letter. 

[bubba]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

You don't need to go back your country, but just to exit Thailand and send your documents home for a friend to get your Non-OA. With express mail service it's less than 1 week all, and then back in Thailand.

Yes, but you would have to also send your passport back. I don't think I would want to be in some random country for a week with no passport.

[gaviny]

The Embassy Letter will be issued until 1 Jan 2019- It is good for 6 months- Thai immigration has informed the Us Embassy they will accept the letter  with 6 month validity- that means if one applies 30-45 days early the letters will be good thru June 2019 for extensions based upon income letters.  If your extension ends in July or first week of August- you should be good as many offices allow applications for extension 45 days in advance.

Thanks for the info , in that case I will go for my third n final stat dec from the Aussie Embassy as I'm sure they will be in same boat
I can see the visa agents will now come under scrutiny for planting the 80000 in their clients account and that's only for a week , let alone 3 months



Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, willwildy said:

I am leaning in this direction as well. I can easily do the deposit, but why stay where I am not wanted? Take my money and my pension and check out somewhere else.

So before now why did you assume that you were wanted by Thailand (or any other "foreign" country) if not for the money you contributed to the economy?

 

Did you think that Thais thought you beautified the landscape or added to the sophistication of conversations in the bars?

[marqus12]

16 minutes ago, JAG said:

Frankly, even if they lined up every "retiree" tomorrow, put them on planes and hung onto the B800,000 from each one, it would amount to a totally insignificant amount of "capital" for the country.

 

 

500k expats in Thailand during the year will probably spend more money

that 5 million Chinese tourists.

[sambum]

7 hours ago, certacito said:

 

It has nothing to do with bringing capital in and why is it a "scummy move" for Thai Immigration to say that the income needs verifying? Or are you saying that the US embassy are being scummy because you want them to perform a job/duty that they are totally incapable of doing?

"Incapable of doing" because it is against the law to do so. In the case of the British it is covered by the Data Protection Act - don't know about the USA.

 

Incidentally, as has been mentioned previously, I would suggest that the majority of people using the "Proof of Income" letters/affidavits are/were telling the truth about their financial details. The people that they should be making life awkward for are the ones who get their extensions/visas ILLEGALLY, and these numbers are bound to swell because of this latest legislation/blunder by Thai Immigration. The other numbers that are likely to swell are the numbers of people who will opt/have to leave because of the extra financial restraints/obligations, and the numbers of people who were thinking of settling here but will now opt to go elsewhere. This could also have a knock on effect for the Tourist industry, as the above mentioned people will certainly not be recommending Thailand as a holiday destination to their friends and family! Never mind, I am sure that TAT will be able to do a wonderful job of "massaging" those figures! 

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Thanks for the info , in that case I will go for my third n final stat dec from the Aussie Embassy as I'm sure they will be in same boat
I can see the visa agents will now come under scrutiny for planting the 80000 in their clients account and that's only for a week , let alone 3 months



Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The agents are already under scrutiny with some being arrested and charged in Bangkok.

Don't jump off the ship just yet because this does not involve the Australian Embassy as the procedure there is different to the UK and the USA.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

The agents are already under scrutiny with some being arrested and charged in Bangkok.

Don't jump off the ship just yet because this does not involve the Australian Embassy as the procedure there is different to the UK and the USA.

So what about their clients that already have extensions by using those "naughty" agents? Are they in hot water too?

[Ebumbu]

I hope you guys consider this question on topic. I didn't get any notification from the USA STEP program, which I just joined this month precisely to get these notifications. Does anyone have a date and location for the US Embassy Outreach to Phuket in November? 

[zydeco]

I wonder how many people will never see or hear about this January deadline until after it has passed?  Then walk into the embassy and be wrecked with the news?

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

500k expats in Thailand during the year will probably spend more money

that 5 million Chinese tourists.

Chinese tourists spend USD 768 per overseas holiday according to Neilsen.  In 2017 9,194,057 came to Thailand from China.

[amdy2206]

I really don't understand where the problem is. You have certain specifications to live here. If you have them, great. If you don't want to comply, go home. Simple. All countries have the same. You want to stay, put your money here. You don't want to put your money here, go where you want to put your money - but stop complaining. 

[bkk6060]

26 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Not sure why the embassy can't document a retirees Social Security income. We each have the government statement showing monthly and annual income, and it could accompany a bank printout showing it going into your account. That would cover most applicants. The ones getting their money from some dead cousin's trust would follow the new rules. 

This is all a great example of incompetence and laziness.

As much as people complain about Thailand, a place like the US in some respects is no better.

Just a bunch of lazy incompetents who could care less.

They will figure out or confirm nothing.

Because it is easier.....

Ever experience the California DMV?

 

[blackhorse]

The agents are already under scrutiny with some being arrested and charged in Bangkok.
Don't jump off the ship just yet because this does not involve the Australian Embassy as the procedure there is different to the UK and the USA.

The oz embassy still has their announcement up saying they will not be changing their stat dec system regardless of the brits stopping theirs.

Either they were never asked for proof or they were and decided it legally didn't apply to them. Can't be anything else

[Jingthing]

Just now, amdy2206 said:

I really don't understand where the problem is. You have certain specifications to live here. If you have them, great. If you don't want to comply, go home. Simple. All countries have the same. You want to stay, put your money here. You don't want to put your money here, go where you want to put your money - but stop complaining. 

The problem is that the situation has changed. Without income letters people that legitimately have that income have now entered a zone of uncertainty.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Rama said:

No problem meeting income requirements but won't put 800k in a Thai bank. 1 Year visa at airport in Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh City....Wait until Pattaya and Chiang Mai start emptying out. Thais will be up in arms over lost business.

Parts of Pattaya/Jomtien have already seen many closed businesses.  It's sad.

 

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Nope. If it happens it'll be gradual and the common Thai will have no idea why. 

Many Thais are already angry over our "replacements" lack of spending - except where the tour-bus stops + 7-11.  Their relative power is an open question, but stupid to push more and more into thinking "the market" doesn't provide them with good opportunities. 

 

The expat-market can do that, it did before, and if immigration would get out of the way, it could continue to do so well into the future.  Remotely-employed digital workers (under-50s) would be the obvious choice to expand Thai job/business-opportunities, as well as opening up more retirement options for those with average Western retirement incomes (40K or so).

 

17 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

500k expats in Thailand during the year will probably spend more money

that 5 million Chinese tourists.

Not sure on gross-spending (figure some Chinese billionaire-spending, from looting their own people goes into the "average" spend), but Westerners certainly spend money in places where the ratio of Thai-jobs per-foreign-spender is much higher.

[RichardColeman]

personally I think duming 800,000 in a thai bank is extremely risky. Look at your thai neighboour, you know the ones that have more than you and seem to be partying all the time, never a work and yet theres pickups and cars and motorbikes outside, standing outside their houses with their latest mobiles and having new tv's and kitchen appliances delivered. The ones being constantly delivered pizzas. 

Now they are living on huge credit , given to them by banks whose only requirement seems to be to turn up at the bank wih shoes on the right feet. Uk banks  know check everything - and no matter what they say I'd take a UK bank or USA bank or most parts of the worlds banks than Thais over credit checks.

This whole thing seems a ruse to me to ensure that the banks have more outside security 'given to them' and don't shoot off up the well known creek without a farang paddle

 

 

 

 

 

[Suradit69]

5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I wonder how many people will never see or hear about this January deadline until after it has passed?  Then walk into the embassy and be wrecked with the news?

Well, if they signed up for emails at the embassy, as is recommended, they should have received an email notification. I got an email notification and a lot of other people in this thread have confirmed getting email notification.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Parts of Pattaya/Jomtien have already seen many closed businesses.  It's sad.

 

Many Thais are already angry over our "replacements" lack of spending - except where the tour-bus stops + 7-11.  Their relative power is an open question, but stupid to push more and more into thinking "the market" doesn't provide them with good opportunities. 

 

The expat-market can do that, it did before, and if immigration would get out of the way, it could continue to do so well into the future.  Remotely-employed digital workers (under-50s) would be the obvious choice to expand Thai job/business-opportunities, as well as opening up more retirement options for those with average Western retirement incomes (40K or so).

You mean Terminal 21?  Thailand's economy is doing quite well changing from beer bar to boutique. 

[scubascuba3]

I really don't understand where the problem is. You have certain specifications to live here. If you have them, great. If you don't want to comply, go home. Simple. All countries have the same. You want to stay, put your money here. You don't want to put your money here, go where you want to put your money - but stop complaining. 

Why can't you understand it? Some people have the income but not enough funds to do the 800k. If they'd been warned early this was going to happen maybe they would have saved the 800k.

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

The oz embassy still has their announcement up saying they will not be changing their stat dec system regardless of the brits stopping theirs.

Either they were never asked for proof or they were and decided it legally didn't apply to them. Can't be anything else
 

The thing is that with the Australian system it is easy to verify the pension income as it is a government pension whereas the British government pension is only a small pension so they must rely on a top up from a private pension fund which at a guess that might be the stumbling bloke on the verification but I cannot see why the USA cannot verify a persons Social Security pension because it is a government pension.

[Suradit69]

6 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

The oz embassy still has their announcement up saying they will not be changing their stat dec system regardless of the brits stopping theirs.

Doesn't necessarily mean Thai immigration will accept it.

[onera1961]

51 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Switching to extension of stay based on marriage will help some but not all of them as there are people here with less than 40k/Month/400K a year.

Yes, I know an American living here for 600USD per month with embassy letter. He was proud of his achievement and published his frugality in his blogs. Often, looking for free food. I wonder what happened to him. Often found in Thermae ogling young girls. Even argued with a few people that he had more money because he could live without working. I guess Thailand does not need such people. Have you seen those YouTube videos where the commentator proudly says how cheap living in Thailand is. They would show their 2000 baht apartment in CM and are very product of their find and act as if they have discovered gold. 

Then came Tim Ferriss and brought this DN revolution. I don't think he ever dreamt of sending scores or young people to Thailand and Chiang Mai, living on may be 1000 USD and creating Youtube videos to show off their cheap living in CM with a hope of scoring it big in the future. 

[farangpaul]

why do they get so excited when they want to live in america as foreigners, there are completely different problems. here they are foreigners

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Why can't you understand it? Some people have the income but not enough funds to do the 800k. If they'd been warned early this was going to happen maybe they would have saved the 800k.

How much warning do you require?  Seems that would not be a problem. Since the letter is good for 6 months. 

[digger70]

7 hours ago, longball53098 said:

Going to hurt a lot of us non-liars as it was a convenient way to get the extension

Yep the Liars and fakes stuff things up all the time,same as corruption in immigration personnel.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the British Embassy was right after all.

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As @elviajero told you!

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The problem is that the situation has changed. Without income letters people that legitimately have that income have now entered a zone of uncertainty.

Abolutely  correct- many people have the income stream but do not have an extra 800K ($25,000) sitting around thate can be brought into Thailand and left frozen for 3 months time. They can prove income stream . We are waiting what Thai Imm will agree to accept.

 

It should be noted that the Embassy letter never, ever stated they verified anything. It is a self declaration that was sworn under penalty of perjury which if one is lying, one incurs a criminal/civil penalty that could include jail time. The system worked well- some people may have lied but most do not 

 

Thai Imm may have asked the Embassies to verify amounts from source- impossible- you can't even do it from the USA- there are privacy laws.  Does anyone actually believe the US Social Security Dept will  provide info to a caller from Thailand or anywhere else unless you can verify some identity info. No Embassy can verify  but a signed affidavit with an oath is the best one could expect. Thai Imm can always ask for backup info, which they have done, such as pension letters;  bank statements etc.

 

If I was negotiating this with Thai Imm- I would have informed them it is impossible to verify from source but instead of an income letter- citizens can do a blank affidavit- state their income and source in writing- have the statement sworn.  I have asked US Embassy if they will allow this after Jan 1, 2019-  If they  will do it- next step will Thai imm accept it with added proof.  No response yet from US Embassy.