Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JohnnyBD]

14 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I must be really losing my mind. For some reason I thought that all the posts on this matter have been about needing money in the bank after the stat dec runs out. Where is the "more confusion?"

Good laugh... you're not losing it... no confusion... It appears only 400k/800k in bank account method starting in July 2019 when stat decs, income letters & income affidavits (US) are no longer valid. Unless ??? TI issues a new directive before then...

Edited November 14, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[cleverman]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Good laugh... you're not losing it... no confusion... It appears only 400k/800k in bank account method starting in July 2019 when stat decs, income letters & income affidavits are no longer valid. Unless ??? TI issues a new directive before then...

Put the cat out with the milk bottles,turn the light off and go to bed. 

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Oztruckie said:

Renewed my extension to stay at jomtien last week, rocked up with all the forms filled out and signed, io looked at my Stat Dec, umm, she ask, you use Stat Dec last year, yes, last 2 years my reply, I go see my supervisor, stat dec not enough now, must show 800k in bank, she tell me next year no more stat Dec, must show 800k in bank, guess its more confusion about what's required

But, you did get your extension? And what embassy was your letter from?

Edited November 14, 2018 by moontang

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I must be really losing my mind. For some reason I thought that all the posts on this matter have been about needing money in the bank after the stat dec runs out. Where is the "more confusion?"

Asking a immigration officer certainly creates confusion since they have no new info about what immigrations requirement are.

Nobody does until  the Immigration Bureau either confirms or denies what the embassies have said.

[Sheryl]

Renewed my extension to stay at jomtien last week, rocked up with all the forms filled out and signed, io looked at my Stat Dec, umm, she ask, you use Stat Dec last year, yes, last 2 years my reply, I go see my supervisor, stat dec not enough now, must show 800k in bank, she tell me next year no more stat Dec, must show 800k in bank, guess its more confusion about what's required

Both UK and US Embassies (? and Oz?) were clearly told income method will still be possible . I suggest you email your Embassy and tell them about this specifying the Imm Office so they can take it up with TI.

What might be happening is that some IOs faced with having to ascertain income themselves and being unsure how to do it are opting to not do it at all.

I would not assune TI is aware of the problem and preparing a response. They may well simply assume Imm Offices will know what to do. They need feedback and the route for that is via your Embassy.

Do it now while the Embassies are still involved with this issue.

When emailing Embassy I suggest keeping it to the point and not bothering to argue for reinstatement of Embassy letters. Just something along the lines of:

"According to your website Thai Immigration will continue to allow retirement extensions based on proof of incone if 65,000 baht/month. However individual Immigration Offices appear not to have received a directive to do this and some have apparently decided to stop extensions based on income altogether. For example, I was informed by Jomtien Immigration iffice on (date) that XXX....Please inform your contacts at Thai Immigration of this problem and the need to issue guidelines for income verification to lical Imm offices urgently or many of your citizenswill find themselves unable to extend their stay"



Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

For those who  need a bank to deposit their 56,000 to cover a shortfall can use the monthly deposit into a Thai Bank I think that The rertirement income paid into any bank account will continue

 

How will it continue as it never has been?  Always income letter which is the subject of the past 7000 posts on this subject and its discontinuance. 

[mogandave]

Asking a immigration officer certainly creates confusion since they have no new info about what immigrations requirement are.
Nobody does until  the Immigration Bureau either confirms or denies what the embassies have said.

You mean the staff at 7-11 don’t get advance notice of what flavors of Lay’s Potato Chips will be available next year?

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

Renewed my extension to stay at jomtien last week, rocked up with all the forms filled out and signed, io looked at my Stat Dec, umm, she ask, you use Stat Dec last year, yes, last 2 years my reply, I go see my supervisor, stat dec not enough now, must show 800k in bank, she tell me next year no more stat Dec, must show 800k in bank, guess its more confusion about what's required

If indicative of the situation overall, this indicates the embassies stopped the letters, because immigration was going to stop accepting them anyway.  This is not the first report like this by USA applicants, beginning even before the letter was dropped by the US-Embassy.  The only variation in the stories, is whether the IOs believe an "income method" will exist at all, and if so, in what form.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

Renewed my extension to stay at jomtien last week, rocked up with all the forms filled out and signed, io looked at my Stat Dec, umm, she ask, you use Stat Dec last year, yes, last 2 years my reply, I go see my supervisor, stat dec not enough now, must show 800k in bank, she tell me next year no more stat Dec, must show 800k in bank, guess its more confusion about what's required

I guess you had your embassy letter as well. Did the IO asked to see your stat Dec for verification?

[cleverman]

I don't see how Imm. Can deny what the embassys have said?

[cleverman]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

But, you did get your extension? And what embassy was your letter from?

He said he renewed his extension, that would indicate that ,yes, he did renew his extension. 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

If indicative of the situation overall, this indicates the embassies stopped the letters, because immigration was going to stop accepting them anyway. //

Your own interpretation...

I see it as IO being suspicious with people from UKUSAU now that they know that their letter does not comply with TI requirements.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

Renewed my extension to stay at jomtien last week, rocked up with all the forms filled out and signed, io looked at my Stat Dec, umm, she ask, you use Stat Dec last year, yes, last 2 years my reply, I go see my supervisor, stat dec not enough now, must show 800k in bank, she tell me next year no more stat Dec, must show 800k in bank, guess its more confusion about what's required

I guess you had your embassy letter as well. Did the IO asked to see your stat Dec for verification?

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:19 AM, ubonjoe said:

I am assuming that the 3 embassies stating the same information have gotten their info from a high level source at the Immigration Bureau.

If those rogue offices that start doing silly things they could be reported to the bureau or the division over them.

I am hoping somebody will report the nonsense requirements that the Phuket immigration office is putting out.

Mate ,

      are you involved with immigration ...you seem to know alot about it .....

    is there something i am missing ..i am a newbie , an it seems you have all the answers can you do something about the immigration officers ....hope i don't get a deleted post ....would like everybody to see it ........thanxs ...

                                                                                          

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Now on page 188 of this thread....  But I think it's worth mentioning:

 

Anyone visiting Immigration with an extension of stay application based on an Embassy income letter who has an otherwise correct application denied during the remainder of 2018 because they won't accept your income letter DEFINITELY needs to report the details of that denial to the Embassy that issued your letter.

 

The British Embassy is still issuing letters until mid December, and the U.S. Embassy until the end of 2018. And those letters certainly should be accepted as valid by Immigration now and certainly at least while those embassies are continuing to issue them.

 

And beyond that, the embassies have said, and it's long been Immigration policy, that income letters are valid for 6 months from the date of issue, which would mean mid-2019 at the latest for British and American citizens who get them just before their embassies shut them off.  However, it remains to be seen whether Immigration is in fact going to continue honoring that 6 month period into mid-2019.

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, CARLO BALDASSARRE said:

Mate ,

      are you involved with immigration ...you seem to know alot about it .....

    is there something i am missing ..i am a newbie , an it seems you have all the answers can you do something about the immigration officers ....hope i don't get a deleted post ....would like everybody to see it ........thanxs ...

                                                                                          

You will find Ubonjoe is very knowledgeable when it comes to all thing to do with Thai immigration, probably knows more about Thai immigration than half the IOs. Besides monitoring and personally answering all the immigration questions, he knows all the legislation, visa's, requirements etc , an extensive knowledge of local requirements at most immigration offices and most Thai embassies.

No, he cant do anything about immigration officers and policy except help us all with a better understanding.

[moontang]

58 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Now on page 188 of this thread....  But I think it's worth mentioning:

 

Anyone visiting Immigration with an extension of stay application based on an Embassy income letter who has an otherwise correct application denied during the remainder of 2018 because they won't accept your income letter DEFINITELY needs to report the details of that denial to the Embassy that issued your letter.

 

The British Embassy is still issuing letters until mid December, and the U.S. Embassy until the end of 2018. And those letters certainly should be accepted as valid by Immigration now and certainly at least while those embassies are continuing to issue them.

 

And beyond that, the embassies have said, and it's long been Immigration policy, that income letters are valid for 6 months from the date of issue, which would mean mid-2019 at the latest for British and American citizens who get them just before their embassies shut them off.  However, it remains to be seen whether Immigration is in fact going to continue honoring that 6 month period into mid-2019.

 

 

 

But what if they are accepting the letter, but not the supporting documentation?

[cleverman]

Rubbish, where has it been written that IO won't accept the letters, ever. Read the thousands of posts on this matter. 

[BobTH]

I just saw this on another forum and thought I would share the information. I merely copy and pasted the following.

 

Quote" 

Just to inform any Danish people on this page. The Danish embassy in Bangkok stopped issuing income affidavits immediately from today. No grace period. Just like that, from one day to the next. They say that people that already applied and payed, but did not receive the affidavit yet will get refunded..

The link to the notice on their Facebook page is both in english and danish.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2444388445601295&id=113160135390816  

"Unquote"

 

[Ebumbu]

2 minutes ago, BobTH said:

I just saw this on another forum and thought I would share the information. I merely copy and pasted the following.

 

Quote" 

Just to inform any Danish people on this page. The Danish embassy in Bangkok stopped issuing income affidavits immediately from today. No grace period. Just like that, from one day to the next. They say that people that already applied and payed, but did not receive the affidavit yet will get refunded..

The link to the notice on their Facebook page is both in english and danish.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2444388445601295&id=113160135390816  

"Unquote"

 

 

Unbelievable. Very uncool. They're putting some of their citizens in a very difficult spot. I suspect that many more countries will follow suit and affidavits are a thing of the past. 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, BobTH said:

I just saw this on another forum and thought I would share the information. I merely copy and pasted the following.

I have just started a topic about it.

 

[BobTH]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I have just started a topic about it.

 

Feel free to delete my comment if you wish. Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, BobTH said:

Feel free to delete my comment if you wish. Thanks.

There was a post about it in Danish in another topic so I found it in English on their website.

No need to remove yours.

[Pib]

Standby for more and more embassies to do the same....either immediately stop or at a near-term date.

 

Based on the UK/US/AU and now Danish embassies stopping issue of income letters, the hand writing on the wall is HUGE more (maybe all) embassies will do the same.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

42 minutes ago, BobTH said:

Feel free to delete my comment if you wish. Thanks.

I for 1 thank you for your post, I think it's invaluable (as a Brit) to learn what is happening with other Embassies...

 

Oh & BTW, my Brother was a Trade Ambassador for Denmark, always seemed to me that this mainly involved him hanging around with Peter Schmeichel & Ole Gunner Solskjær (Who's actually Norwegian), but Denmark is a very beautiful country. 

 

 

Which Embassy is next I wonder, I would have laid money on the Scandic countries being towards the back of the countries to stop issuing the income letters, don't know why but I've always viewed them as supporting their citizens more.

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[mogandave]

I for 1 thank you for your post, I think it's invaluable (as a Brit) to learn what is happening with other Embassies...
 
Oh & BTW, my Brother was a Trade Ambassador for Denmark, always seemed to me that this mainly involved him hanging around with Peter Schmeichel & Ole Gunner Solskjær (Who's actually Norwegian), but Denmark is a very beautiful country. 
 
 
Which Embassy is next I wonder, I would have laid money on the Scandic countries being towards the back of the countries to stop issuing the income letters, don't know why but I've always viewed them as supporting their citizens more.
 
 
 

I would guess it just took them longer to get it done. I think once it was made clear the embassies would have to actually certify the income, it became impossible. I doubt it has anything to do with supporting citizens.

That said, I doubt this will have any significant negative impact on people currently playing by the rules.

[Mike Teavee]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I would guess it just took them longer to get it done. I think once it was made clear the embassies would have to actually certify the income, it became impossible. I doubt it has anything to do with supporting citizens.

That said, I doubt this will have any significant negative impact on people currently playing by the rules.

 

I'd suggest that they took longer to see if there was a way that they could help their citizens than maybe our Embassies did.

 

I've no experience personally, just going on the impression I get from what my brother has told me over the past 35+ years that he's been working in doing trade deals with the Nordic countries... 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[bkk6060]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Now on page 188 of this thread....  But I think it's worth mentioning:

 

Anyone visiting Immigration with an extension of stay application based on an Embassy income letter who has an otherwise correct application denied during the remainder of 2018 because they won't accept your income letter DEFINITELY needs to report the details of that denial to the Embassy that issued your letter.

 

The British Embassy is still issuing letters until mid December, and the U.S. Embassy until the end of 2018. And those letters certainly should be accepted as valid by Immigration now and certainly at least while those embassies are continuing to issue them.

 

And beyond that, the embassies have said, and it's long been Immigration policy, that income letters are valid for 6 months from the date of issue, which would mean mid-2019 at the latest for British and American citizens who get them just before their embassies shut them off.  However, it remains to be seen whether Immigration is in fact going to continue honoring that 6 month period into mid-2019.

 

 

 

I see what you are saying but in reality TI can do what they want.

All those involved know now that the income is not verified and fraud is quite possible so in reality from a TI aspect those letter are possibly not valid at all.

I would not be surprised if TI came out soon and said as of Jan 1 those letters are no good.

 

Just to add I have changed my thinking on all this.  It is the US Embassy I am pissed at.  Just charge $100 dollars and hire some people to at least attempt to do some type of income verification.  I for one am still paying big taxes in the US for what??

It was an important service they should provide to citizens. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by bkk6060

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I see what you are saying but in reality TI can do what they want.

All those involved know now that the income is not verified and fraud is quite possible so in reality from a TI aspect those letter are possibly not valid at all.

I would not be surprised if TI came out soon and said as of Jan 1 those letters are no good.

 

Just to add I have changed my thinking on all this.  It is the US Embassy I am pissed at.  Just charge $100 dollars and hire some people to at least attempt to do some type of income verification.  I for one am still paying big taxes in the US for what??

It was an important service they should provide to citizens. 

Problem is being able to do any type of true verification where mere copies of income docs could be fake and requires the embassy to actually contact a govt agency or civilian company to get confirmation the docs/income is valid.  With privacy and identity protection laws/polices it just ain't going to happen. 

 

And do not believe what you see in the movies/crime TV shows where Hawaii Five-O, NCIS, or whatever other drama police series where some crime fighter pulls-up full financial data on a suspect in a heartbeat with a few keystrokes.  Sorry, that's all fantasy.   

 

If Thai Immigration now truly wants embassies to do that type of fantasy verification then income letters are dead for sure.  

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

Problem is being able to do any type of true verification where mere copies of income docs could be fake and requires the embassy to actually contact a govt agency or civilian company to get confirmation the docs/income is valid.  With privacy and identity protection laws/polices it just ain't going to happen.

Depends. It's far to always be so complicated. In my country you don't need to contact anyone; you can verify by example a Tax Service Notice directly on their Internet site using codes and url on the notice. They have put this service in place several years ago, when they (nearly) stopped to send "paper" notices. My embassy could use that, TI couldn't. All my documents (work, tax, bank,...) are pdf only since about 5 years ago.