Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't care what you think, or anybody's thoughts. It's what the Oz embassy will put in writing is what I would like to see. 

They already have, you just couldn't be bothered to read it.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Thanks for that, no real surprise, I suspect the other embassies will follow suit ????

 

The links at the bottom of the notice don't really help as there are no specifics other than the full deposit option 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

 

I've fixed the spelling error in the topic title ????

 

Yes the will follow, BUT ONLY the countries embassies that are not willing to confirm income fantasies... And that is actually good, it hurt the rest of us to have that in front of the thai immigration, They may believe that all of us are doing the very same stunt as Australia US and UK..

 

glegolo

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, glegolo said:

Yes the will follow, BUT ONLY the countries embassies that are not willing to confirm income fantasies... And that is actually good, it hurt the rest of us to have that in front of the thai immigration, They may believe that all of us are doing the very same stunt as Australia US and UK..

 

glegolo

Care to name a country that issues said guarantee..? 

[Peterw42]

54 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Surely it will mean a lot of people (not just Aussies) will be going to places like Savannakhet and HCMC

for visas now.

Those countries only issue 90 day 0 visa's, not long stay visa's. that means leaving Thailand 4 times a year.

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Even if the German and other embassies do continue to issue letters, unless they comply with Immigration’s request for income validation, they won’t be accepted.

we don't know that yet, the TI has made no public statement, we are only hearing from the embassies themselves.

[mfd101]

9 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't care what you think, or anybody's thoughts. It's what the Oz embassy will put in writing is what I would like to see. 

It's already in writing at the start of this thread.

[glegolo]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Care to name a country that issues said guarantee..? 

There is quite a few, which you really should know..

My own country is among those, together with rest of Scandinavia and most of Europe...

glegolo

[Peterw42]

19 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Could some Ozzie ask our embassy ,Phuket, if they will supply proof of incom if the income is a Govt. pension, eg. DFRDB pension. I can't because of an argument I had there once. 

Oz embassy doesnt supply income letter or proof etc, they (did) just witness a statement made by the citizen. 

Go to the consulate before 07/01/19, write a stat dec stating your income and the consulate will stamp it. 

[mfd101]

8 minutes ago, glegolo said:

They may believe that all of us are doing the very same stunt as Australia US and UK..

Why was the Aussie system a 'stunt'? They did exactly what they claimed to do: They witness YOUR signature on YOUR stat dec. So where's the stunt? Certainly not with the Embassy!!!

[Old Croc]

9 minutes ago, GarryP said:

 

AUD 849 x 2 = Baht 40,270, which is under the threshold. 

 

Multiply fortnightly income by 26 then divide by 12 for the monthly amount.  At 23 baht to the dollar that's a bit over 42,000.

Enough for the marriage visa requirements, to which I think Will was referring, but well short of the requirements for retirees.

[wgdanson]

6 minutes ago, glegolo said:

There is quite a few, which you really should know..

My own country is among those, together with rest of Scandinavia and most of Europe...

glegolo

Are you telling us that your Embassy officials go through every document you supply them with, verifying them with the issuing authority, ie Pension people, Investment company, Bank interest, private Rental contract, before they issue the Letter of Income. I doubt it very much.

Edited November 2, 2018 by wgdanson

[elviajero]

The only practical way for immigration to validate income themselves will be to see it transferred in to a Thai bank account. That is no problem for renewal applications.

 

When the British embassy made their announcement I was told, and reported, that immigration were discussing how to react/proceed. 

 

As more embassies refuse to comply the chances increase of immigration backing down, or coming up with a solution which — based on their existing ‘rules’ — would be very easy.

 

I recommend that those that can start funding their Thai bank account with 400K/800K, or start making regular transfers averaging 40K/65K pm.

[mfd101]

15 minutes ago, GarryP said:

 

AUD 849 x 2 = Baht 40,270, which is under the threshold. 

 

If you don't mind me expanding on that (so that noone can be in doubt): $A849 x 26 = $A22074p.a. = $A1839 per month. At currently around 23.5฿ to $A, that = 43228฿ per month. Which is way less than required by Thai Immigration.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

There is quite a few, which you really should know..

My own country is among those, together with rest of Scandinavia and most of Europe...

glegolo

I am not sure there are many that actually verify the income by verifying it by contacting the source of the income.

Most just look at what you give them and do the letter. Basically the same as the UK embassy was doing.

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Are you telling us that your Embassy officials go through every document you supply them with, verifying them with the issuing authority, ie Pension people, Investment company, Bank interest, private Rental contract, before they issue the Letter of Income. I doubt it very much.

It may depends of countries, but in France by example you would just need ONE paper: The Tax Service notice. You indeed have to declare yearly to them ALL your revenues, taxable or not, and cumulation is shown on this notice, along with taxes paid.

[Old Croc]

I'll preface this by saying I've always gone the money in the bank route and it doubles as my self funded insurance. I'm not personally alarmed by these developments, more just interested.

 

Has anybody had Immi accept just the proof of transfer of 65,000 monthly into a Thai bank to process an extension?

Or, have they always required the seasoned lump sum?

If it hasn't previously happened, does anyone believe they will start accepting this method?

[Old Croc]

7 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

If you don't mind me expanding on that (so that noone can be in doubt): $A849 x 26 = $A22074p.a. = $A1839 per month. At currently around 23.5฿ to $A, that = 43228฿ per month. Which is way less than required by Thai Immigration.

See post 70. 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It may depends of countries, but in France by example you would just need ONE paper: The Tax Service notice. You indeed have to declare yearly to them ALL your revenues, taxable or not, and cumulation is shown on this notice, along with taxes paid.

We UKs can also submit our Tax Assessment/Declaration/Payment forms to the British Embassy, but they are still saying that this is not 'verifying' the income.

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, glegolo said:

There is quite a few, which you really should know..

My own country is among those, together with rest of Scandinavia and most of Europe...

glegolo

See Joes #74

Edited November 2, 2018 by evadgib

[Will27]

21 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Those countries only issue 90 day 0 visa's, not long stay visa's. that means leaving Thailand 4 times a year.

Yes, but that's better than the alternative.....

[JimGant]

Quote

Looks like all farang living in Thailand on annual extensions will now need to have the 400K & 800K THB in a Thai bank account in order to continue living in Thailand.

Naaaaaaa. Did you forget the combo method?

 

Presumably you're living on some amount of money brought into Thailand. And if that money is filtered through a Thai bank -- for the benefit of Immigration to see -- then for every baht brought in, the 800k requirement decreases by one baht.

 

Quote

AUD 849 x 2 = Baht 40,270, which is under the threshold.

Yeah, but the 800k requirement then slips to below 300k. A more manageable figure, methinks.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

The question is why now and whether the Thai government is behind it to force expats to bring more money into the country or is it a cahoot of the US, UK and the aussie governments for reasons that are know only to them...

When it was just the UK, I thought maybe it was a "scale down services" issue - and not TI's fault.  At this point, with 3 embassies affected, I am fairly-certain TI is continuing their ongoing "tightening" to reduce Western expats in Thailand.

 

For those who don't have 800K+ to "park" in a Thai bank for 3 months - or are unwilling to put it there if they do have it - an embassy-letter was in direct competition with agents.  Depending on what the "new rules" will be for proving income (not announced by TI, yet), this could increase the number who must either leave the country or "pay tribute" to TI via agent-fees or the elite visa option. 

[GarryP]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

If you don't mind me expanding on that (so that noone can be in doubt): $A849 x 26 = $A22074p.a. = $A1839 per month. At currently around 23.5฿ to $A, that = 43228฿ per month. Which is way less than required by Thai Immigration.

Don't mind at all. ???? I didn't know it was calculated that way. But still a bummer for those relying on only the OAP.

 

I am just not sure the basis of the minimum requirements - where were the figures pulled from when Thailand has a much lower cost of living? They have been in place for many years, although I do seem to recall there was a slight increase from 600k to 800k. 

[JimGant]

Quote

I'd also bet that at least one embassy holds out and maintains that it can verify income. My money would be on the Germans for this.

Won't make any difference, as it's becoming clearer that income letters will soon be history. Thailand no longer cares that you can prove, verify, and bond that your income is a million bucks. They want to verify that at least some of that money is coming to Thailand. And income letters don't verify that aspect of one's income.

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I'll preface this by saying I've always gone the money in the bank route and it doubles as my self funded insurance. I'm not personally alarmed by these developments, more just interested.

 

Has anybody had Immi accept just the proof of transfer of 65,000 monthly into a Thai bank to process an extension?

Or, have they always required the seasoned lump sum?

If it hasn't previously happened, does anyone believe they will start accepting this method?

No they have not always required the 'seasoned lump'. They, Thai Imm.  accepted a Letter form the relevant Embassy which either said that they, the Embassy staff, had verified the income statements to be genuine, or as in the case of USA & Oz, that the applicant has promised to them, the Embassy, that what they say is true. Both methods easy to fake. They have NEVER accepted the 65k a month into a Thai bank, although that would be far less easy to fake, unless it was 65k IN and next day 65k OUT. Then it would be up to the Imm. Officer to notice that and say 'sorry mate'.If an OZ, or 'sorry SIR' if a Brit !

[cleverman]

33 minutes ago, giddyup said:

They already have, you just couldn't be bothered to read it.

No mention of military pensions, which can be proved, they say they won't issue the stat. Dec. as they can't prove the income. Military pensions are proof positive. It is not I who needs to read again .

[mfd101]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Won't make any difference, as it's becoming clearer that income letters will soon be history. Thailand no longer cares that you can prove, verify, and bond that your income is a million bucks. They want to verify that at least some of that money is coming to Thailand. And income letters don't verify that aspect of one's income.

Well, that's what we currently think or suppose. We don't actually know. All we can do at this stage is read the Thai tea leaves.

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

The question is why now and whether the Thai government is behind it to force expats to bring more money into the country or is it a cahoot of the US, UK and the aussie governments for reasons that are know only to them...

Awards for most ridiculous Conspiracy theory Post  goes to ezzra.     Since 1997 the powers that be have pursued a policy to discourage westerners. A fact not a theory. Will they raise the 400 and 800 k in a year? likely they could. However if the Chinese wave remains at ebb tide, maybe they rethink it.

Edited November 2, 2018 by LomSak27

[giddyup]

Just now, cleverman said:

No mention of military pensions, which can be proved, they say they won't issue the stat. Dec. as they can't prove the income. Military pensions are proof positive. It is not I who needs to read again .

I'm sure they'll make an exception just for you.

[Old Croc]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

No they have not always required the 'seasoned lump'. They, Thai Imm.  accepted a Letter form the relevant Embassy which either said that they, the Embassy staff, had verified the income statements to be genuine, or as in the case of USA & Oz, that the applicant has promised to them, the Embassy, that what they say is true. Both methods easy to fake. They have NEVER accepted the 65k a month into a Thai bank, although that would be far less easy to fake, unless it was 65k IN and next day 65k OUT. Then it would be up to the Imm. Officer to notice that and say 'sorry mate'.If an OZ, or 'sorry SIR' if a Brit !

Obviously I have to spell everything out for some posters, even though I was writing on a thread about cessation of Embassy letters.

I neglected to say, hence your confusion, that I was talking about methods apart from Embassy letters which are to be withdrawn.