Come back Farangs! Tourism in Chiang Mai decimated by Chinese exodus

[dave moir]

5 hours ago, worgeordie said:

But on the 4th November, there was a post on this forum 

which stated "Bookings Surge at Chiang Mai Hotels for Cool Season",

wishful thinking ?  or fake news.

 

regards worgeordie

The usually BS!

[Bundooman]

45 minutes ago, kcpattaya said:

The Chinese invasion caused the Farang exodus. 

You might be interested to consider that the exodus started with the russian invasion which preceded the Chinese. Their numbers suddenly plummeted as well. 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, fanjita said:

ll very valid points but don't forget the ever continuing strong Thai Baht in all of this.  It's a relevant part of the jigsaw that is tourism.

Yes, and  most recently as the Baht starts to decline in value which would attract more tourists- the Bank of Thailand intervenes in the market forcing the Baht back up.  That helps a few wealthy Thais who travel frequently.

[Stoker58]

 It’s hard not to feel some satisfaction. They’ve treated foreigners - both tourists and residents - like dirt for years and now the chickens are finally coming home to roost.

  They need a whole new mindset to treat foreigners as welcome guests and not just walking wallets.

[donnacha]

Thailand spent 50 years building up a strong brand in the West as an idyllic tourist destination, but the junta turned against Western tourism because Western governments (most notably John Kerry as US Secretary of State) gently asked about when the promised election would be, causing them to lose face.

The Chinese government ask no such questions and are happy to loan the money for the sort of major infrastructural projects that will allow the generals to keep socking away billions in their Swiss bank accounts for as long as they can cling onto power. (It is worth noting that new Malaysian government has rejected all such Chinese schemes as being a terrible deal that would leave their people with debt and other problems for decades to come).

Part of the necessary narrative was that China is the future, while the West is over, we don't need them, their tourists are low-quality, they have been short-changing Thailand for decades. The worst offenders were the farangs who had been visiting most often and who had the deepest ties to Thailand. That was why they made visas so much tougher and introduced ridiculous hurdles such as having to carry 20K in cash. The underlying message was "On the whole, we'd rather you didn't come here".

The familiar old Western tourism was not as exciting as the dizzying rise in Chinese tourism, mainly propelled by an (at the time) attractive exchange rate, a bubble economy in China, and the impact of Lost in Thailand, which became the highest grossing movie of all time in China when it was released in 2012. That made the idea of visiting Thailand fashionable, but fashions fade over time.

The Chinese will continue to come in large numbers, that is not going to change, and the also potentially huge wave of Indian tourists has not really even started yet, but no number of emerging countries are ever going to become a permanent replacement for the deeply entrenched Western tourism that the junta decided to piss away. We saw this with the Russians, with the Thai government making all sorts of specials deals such as eliminating airport taxes for Russian planes, and in they flooded for a few years, but now where are they?

If the junta do reduce Tourist Visa red-tape to the pre-junta levels, as rumored, that would indicate a realization, at some level, that they made a mistake, but the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse. Enough people are now aware of the possibility of being refused entry for some trivial reason, obliterating the previous image of Thailand as being "sabai sabai", a tropical idyll where you didn't have to deal with the red-tape of life at home.

Thailand is still, of course, a fine vacation destination in many ways, but it is no longer as easy to recommend as it once was. It has all been very foolish, entirely unnecessary, and very sad when you consider the amount of regular money that has been taken away from the parts of Thai society who needed it most - who, now, will pay the vet bills for all those sick buffalos? 

Edited November 21, 2018 by donnacha

[Grandpa Cool]

Probably the people who need to read and absorb these comments will never read this forum, never the less I'll throw my hat in the ring.

Western tourists come to Thailand for peace and relaxation. When they have their holiday destroyed by throngs of Chinese moving in big noisy groups shouting, shoving, etc, naturally they are going to look for somewhere else to recreate. The very short term thinking involved in the illusion of the Chinese goldmine is now coming back to bite Thai business.

Europeans will come back in the future if the Chinese mass invasion is truly over.

If I wanted to enjoy the company of large numbers of Chinese I would go to China!

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, worgeordie said:

But on the 4th November, there was a post on this forum 

which stated "Bookings Surge at Chiang Mai Hotels for Cool Season",

wishful thinking ?  or fake news.

 

regards worgeordie

Apparently, burglary tours is the only thriving sector.

Three Chinese arrested on burglary charges

. . .  about 20 Chinese men from Guangxi province had entered Thailand in groups of three of four to commit burglaries in the jurisdictions of Provincial Police bureaus 1, 2, 5 and 6. - Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com

 

[sammieuk1]

They need to offer some incentives to lure back the Chinese but defo no free boat trips????

[moe666]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

My wife works at a tourist attraction in the Mesa Valley, business is booming and she's rushed off her feet, fewer Chinese but still plenty of tourists. AND, try driving the 107 and 1096 on a weekend, it's becoming manic with huge delays and queues. Sooo, if Muang is lite on tourists I don't know where the ones we're seeing are staying and eating. 

This article is out of date, they say the last 2 months well guess what that is the traditional low season. Tourism has picked up in CM as of this week the hotel my wife works at is fully booked and a friends guest house as of last night had 2 rooms availiable. My massage lady was jumping today when I went in for my 11am 4 chinese getting massage. Maddogs at 10am had around 15 folks enjoying breakfast which is a big increase from low season. Lots of chinese walking around and there seems to be alot of spanish speaking folks around. Do not put too much stock in a news article that seems to be promoting doom and gloom

[amexpat]

36 minutes ago, donnacha said:

- who, now, will pay the vet bills for all those sick buffalos? 

Very good post - but then you had to add this barstool B.S. ? 

[Bangkokazy]

Are you treated like a dog?
Then you will not be back 2 CM.

[Jumbo1968]

I can never understand the attraction of Thailand for the Chinese, can some one enlighten me ?

[moe666]

37 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Thailand spent 50 years building up a strong brand in the West as an idyllic tourist destination, but the junta turned against Western tourism because Western governments (most notably John Kerry as US Secretary of State) gently asked about when the promised election would be, causing them to lose face.

The Chinese government ask no such questions and are happy to loan the money for the sort of major infrastructural projects that will allow the generals to keep socking away billions in their Swiss bank accounts for as long as they can cling onto power. (It is worth noting that new Malaysian government has rejected all such Chinese schemes as being a terrible deal that would leave their people with debt and other problems for decades to come).

Part of the necessary narrative was that China is the future, while the West is over, we don't need them, their tourists are low-quality, they have been short-changing Thailand for decades. The worst offenders were the farangs who had been visiting most often and who had the deepest ties to Thailand. That was why they made visas so much tougher and introduced ridiculous hurdles such as having to carry 20K in cash. The underlying message was "On the whole, we'd rather you didn't come here".

The familiar old Western tourism was not as exciting as the dizzying rise in Chinese tourism, mainly propelled by an (at the time) attractive exchange rate, a bubble economy in China, and the impact of Lost in Thailand, which became the highest grossing movie of all time in China when it was released in 2012. That made the idea of visiting Thailand fashionable, but fashions fade over time.

The Chinese will continue to come in large numbers, that is not going to change, and the also potentially huge wave of Indian tourists has not really even started yet, but no number of emerging countries are ever going to become a permanent replacement for the deeply entrenched Western tourism that the junta decided to piss away. We saw this with the Russians, with the Thai government making all sorts of specials deals such as eliminating airport taxes for Russian planes, and in they flooded for a few years, but now where are they?

If the junta do reduce Tourist Visa red-tape to the pre-junta levels, as rumored, that would indicate a realization, at some level, that they made a mistake, but the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse. Enough people are now aware of the possibility of being refused entry for some trivial reason, obliterating the previous image of Thailand as being "sabai sabai", a tropical idyll where you didn't have to deal with the red-tape of life at home.

Thailand is still, of course, a fine vacation destination in many ways, but it is no longer as easy to recommend as it once was. It has all been very foolish, entirely unnecessary, and very sad when you consider the amount of regular money that has been taken away from the parts of Thai society who needed it most - who, now, will pay the vet bills for all those sick buffalos? 

You were doing great until you glossed over the reason Russians stop coming failing to mention that it was economic down turn in Russia and nothing to do with Thailand or any of there policies. European and American down turn still hasn't totally recovered from 2008 although it does appear to be about over. The fact that a few people are refused entry because of an appearance of living here with the stamps and multiply tourist visas is not one of the pressing concerns of the occassional tourist who probably knows nothing about that particular crack down. 

[Media1]

Remove the current admin and you remove these quality tourists lol. Return happiness to the people.

[Mainhattencitizen]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

But on the 4th November, there was a post on this forum 

which stated "Bookings Surge at Chiang Mai Hotels for Cool Season",

wishful thinking ?  or fake news.

 

regards worgeordie

I recall that post well and even then I was thinking wishful thinking of fake news.

[sambum]

"She was now forced to offer rooms by the month at discounts". 

 

Welcome to business philosophy!

[brain150]

Maybe the current "administration" is just preparing to finally get elected ???

1. Bring down the tourist numbers so that everybody calls on the "Government" to solve the problem

2. Solve the problem shortly before the elections and you will be elected !!!

 

Works all the time in any country I can imagine !!!

People are just to ignorant [or stupid] to see that this kind of thing happens all the time for

maybe the last 250 years all over the world.

 

Just as a side note:

Tourism from China is heavily regulated and controlled by the Chinese Government !

Give the Chinese what they want and they send Millions of tourists.

[A railway to Singapore and a Canal for the ships !]

And they can control WHEN they do it !!! All you need is to make a deal with them.

[MekkOne]

25 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The fact that a few people are refused entry because of an appearance of living here with the stamps and multiply tourist visas is not one of the pressing concerns of the occassional tourist who probably knows nothing about that particular crack down. 

Apparently quiet a lot of people know about it, I can say that probably the most frequently asked question on Facebook groups of tourist and backpackers is about the requirement to don't get refused while entering Thailand...

[Easy Come Easy Go]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Isnt Karma all about the next life and nothing to do with this life ?

In Buddhism It can carry over lifetimes, but essentially Karma is translated from Pali as 'action' - it is all about how you actions mentally and physically, impact those around you, including yourself. It can be thought of as cause and effect 

[fanjita]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Isnt Karma all about the next life and nothing to do with this life ?

If a Thai is unlucky enough to meet their demise after an amulet failure then they're more than happy to be reincarnated as a chicken tomorrow morning.  I'm serious.  

 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by fanjita

[maddox41]

Is this a typo as far as I'm aware chinese are not farangs. And as for Thais they don't care till the shit hits the fan then have a big cry about it. 

[Ulic]

7 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Cheap tourist visa's not working?

Wrong, wrong wrong. The story reported yesterday says the waiving of tourist fees has been an instant smashing success and that tourists have returned and all is well. One story must be fake news and I am sure the TAT as a government agency would never mislead the public. 

[khunpa]

First we are told that everything is booming. Now the opposite. So what is it????

Edited November 21, 2018 by khunpa

[GTgrizzly]

Well, I wanted to come over for xmas and new year from Auss

No flights available be tween 13 th and 31 st- 12-2018 so somebody is coming there

But not meee  ????

[sambum]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

Thailand spent 50 years building up a strong brand in the West as an idyllic tourist destination, but the junta turned against Western tourism because Western governments (most notably John Kerry as US Secretary of State) gently asked about when the promised election would be, causing them to lose face.

The Chinese government ask no such questions and are happy to loan the money for the sort of major infrastructural projects that will allow the generals to keep socking away billions in their Swiss bank accounts for as long as they can cling onto power. (It is worth noting that new Malaysian government has rejected all such Chinese schemes as being a terrible deal that would leave their people with debt and other problems for decades to come).

Part of the necessary narrative was that China is the future, while the West is over, we don't need them, their tourists are low-quality, they have been short-changing Thailand for decades. The worst offenders were the farangs who had been visiting most often and who had the deepest ties to Thailand. That was why they made visas so much tougher and introduced ridiculous hurdles such as having to carry 20K in cash. The underlying message was "On the whole, we'd rather you didn't come here".

The familiar old Western tourism was not as exciting as the dizzying rise in Chinese tourism, mainly propelled by an (at the time) attractive exchange rate, a bubble economy in China, and the impact of Lost in Thailand, which became the highest grossing movie of all time in China when it was released in 2012. That made the idea of visiting Thailand fashionable, but fashions fade over time.

The Chinese will continue to come in large numbers, that is not going to change, and the also potentially huge wave of Indian tourists has not really even started yet, but no number of emerging countries are ever going to become a permanent replacement for the deeply entrenched Western tourism that the junta decided to piss away. We saw this with the Russians, with the Thai government making all sorts of specials deals such as eliminating airport taxes for Russian planes, and in they flooded for a few years, but now where are they?

If the junta do reduce Tourist Visa red-tape to the pre-junta levels, as rumored, that would indicate a realization, at some level, that they made a mistake, but the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse. Enough people are now aware of the possibility of being refused entry for some trivial reason, obliterating the previous image of Thailand as being "sabai sabai", a tropical idyll where you didn't have to deal with the red-tape of life at home.

Thailand is still, of course, a fine vacation destination in many ways, but it is no longer as easy to recommend as it once was. It has all been very foolish, entirely unnecessary, and very sad when you consider the amount of regular money that has been taken away from the parts of Thai society who needed it most - who, now, will pay the vet bills for all those sick buffalos? 

"...........the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse"

 

And such is the way of the world! I remember a certain area where I used to live that had 4 or 5 Working Men's Clubs all within a couple of hundred yards of each other. In spite of the Clubs having the same standard of entertainment from week to week, one was always doing much better than the others until they had an act not turn up. or a bad comedian etc, and the next week the bulk of the clientele had moved on to one of the other Clubs, and it took many years for the punters to return to their original haunt.

 

One can make many similar analogies, but the message is clear - the bubble can burst at any time, so there's no need for you to stick a pin in it yourself! Which is exactly what is happening here, and the clientele/tourists will soon find another Club/Country to take their entrance fee and sell them drink if you don't look after them!

Edited November 21, 2018 by sambum

[britishrepublican]

7 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Cheap tourist visa's not working?

Just 2 days ago they said free visas was already showing an increase in numbers after only 1 week... I guess they didn't all get their stories straight.

[nicolas65]

It does seem like there are fewer Chinese tourists and language students in the Chang Klan area of CM, compared to this time last year.  I have been renting a condo vs buying because it seemed that Chinese speculators had driven up the condo sales market.  Is there any sign that Chinese landlords are voting with their feet too (selling out)?

[farangroby]

Come back Farangs?
Why? Also the Chinese have good reasons to leave Thailand, but the Thais do not realize yet how their draconian laws have killed the tourism.
This morning at a checkpoint a  policeman reminded me that I am in THAI-LAND exactly dividing the word into two (Thai and Land) as if to say that I am just a guest or, better, alien (not even particularly welcome).
After the Chinese exodus are you recalling the western tourists?

Edited November 21, 2018 by farangroby

[SupermarineS6B]

Som nam naa..........Just came back from Penang this morning, there were three westerners on the whole train, it used to be packed out and one hell of a session....... now it's dead, along with many other places that made Thailand once the best night out in the world....... Mind you it's the first time that i've walked through immigration without a question, i think he was about to say welcome, but face took over........

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, fanjita said:

All very valid points but don't forget the ever continuing strong Thai Baht in all of this.  It's a relevant part of the jigsaw that is tourism.

Currency exchange rate is the BIG part of the tourism industry, somehow the boss didn't see it YET