Income statement letters from embassies no longer required, confirms Phuket Immigration

[Olmate]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

See this topic.

 

Previous post suggests many people have no idea of recent developments and understandable too.What% of expats are on TV and other forums and how many will be caught unawares by this screw up!

[Tofer]

What's in God's name is so bl..dy difficult in issuing a clear direction / guidance note from the Immigration department clarifying the exact requirements for visa extensions countrywide.

 

These people purport to be so clever, but cannot get the simplest of tasks straight. Or is big jokes declaration to clean up Immigration corruption just a load of hot air...

[merijn]

6 minutes ago, Tofer said:

What's in God's name is so bl..dy difficult in issuing a clear direction / guidance note from the Immigration department clarifying the exact requirements for visa extensions countrywide.

 

These people purport to be so clever, but cannot get the simplest of tasks straight. Or is big jokes declaration to clean up Immigration corruption just a load of hot air...

Welcome to Thailand ....... Get used to it.

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, Tofer said:

What's in God's name is so bl..dy difficult in issuing a clear direction / guidance note from the Immigration department clarifying the exact requirements for visa extensions countrywide.

Policies and Requirements are well known as they are the same for many years already.

Thai Immigration has no real reason to comment on the decision of a few embassies.

Maybe they will adapt their policies next year to help solving the mess made by these embassies,

or maybe not...

IMHO you should not wait for it and rather prepare to use another option to stay/live here.

[Tofer]

On 11/22/2018 at 11:29 PM, fforest1 said:

If you cant see there are very strange things going on behind the scenes..Not much I can do....Thai Immigration policies should apply to ALL embassies..And if that were the case...Thai immigration could just say WE WILL NO ACCEPT INCOME VERIFICATION LETTERS FROM A-N-Y COUNTRY....

 

They could knock out all 194 countries in a day...

But this is not happening is it?

You embassy is only doing what they were told to do...

Your logic is sound, but don't try applying that to the machinations of the Thai government departments, particularly Immigration.

 

Not being a fluent Thai speaker, is there actually any word in Thai for logic and common sense?

 

Sorry, got out of the bed the wrong side this morning.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Tofer

[Tofer]

16 minutes ago, merijn said:

Welcome to Thailand ....... Get used to it.

That would be my dearest wish, but I'm afraid I'm a bit long in the tooth to change so drastically.

Even after 36 years visiting / living here, it still frustrates me.

[Olmate]

21 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Your logic is sound, but don't try applying that to the machinations of the Thai government departments, particularly Immigration.

 

Not being a fluent Thai speaker, is there actually any word in Thai for logic and common sense?

 

Sorry, got out of the bed the wrong side this morning.

What’s Thai for”She,ll be right mate”?

[Tofer]

12 minutes ago, Olmate said:

What’s Thai for”She,ll be right mate”?

In-sha-Allah, where I stay. And that lot are just as befuddling!

 

I believe "Mai pen rai" is a close equivalent.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Tofer

[Tofer]

31 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Policies and Requirements are well known as they are the same for many years already.

Thai Immigration has no real reason to comment on the decision of a few embassies.

Maybe they will adapt their policies next year to help solving the mess made by these embassies,

or maybe not...

IMHO you should not wait for it and rather prepare to use another option to stay/live here.

I don't have any issue with the alternative methods of financial proof, but many on here do.

 

If the policies and requirements were clear and unambiguous in respect of monthly income, why are so many on here panicking. My contentions are that I don't believe they are so well known. Please enlighten us, and give us assurance that every IO will be applying the same criteria countrywide.

[carken]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:57 AM, cheshiremusicman said:

Seems to me, that the Thai authorities should start to look at a scheme where they look at your track record and start to say 'This person has meet the necessary requirements for the past 5 years', so instead of granting an extension of one year why not make it two, and when you have been here for say 10 years make it a 5 year extension. Surely, if you have been here for that length of time you have proved that you can sustain yourself with your income no matter what it is!

Wow! .... finally somebody who makes some sense ... too bad TI would never think of or approve of doing this ... this is of course the simple solution to a problem that has been made complex by TI ... but applying this simple solution might cause the loss of hundreds or thousands of TI jobs

[Pattaya46]

50 minutes ago, Tofer said:

If the policies and requirements were clear and unambiguous in respect of monthly income, why are so many on here panicking. My contentions are that I don't believe they are so well known. Please enlighten us, and give us assurance that every IO will be applying the same criteria countrywide.

No embassy letter => No monthly income option

 

A rule strictly applied for years by all I. Officers in all I. Offices ...

[Tofer]

On 11/23/2018 at 8:23 AM, KiChakayan said:

Why would this be unfortunate? He did a great job, not giving any information he didn't have. The only thing he's got at this stage is that anyone can extend with a 800k deposit. Being Thai he is probably puzzled by all this agitation, why not just wait and see?

One can hardly wait and see, if the income qualification cannot be met, and you need to season 800k in a Thai bank account for 3 months prior to renewal date.

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Policies and Requirements are well known as they are the same for many years already.

Thai Immigration has no real reason to comment on the decision of a few embassies.

Maybe they will adapt their policies next year to help solving the mess made by these embassies,

or maybe not...

IMHO you should not wait for it and rather prepare to use another option to stay/live here.

You are right about this being a mess but it wasn't the embassies fault.  Thai Immigration wanted the embassies to verify the income letters and these people were either unable or unwilling to do that.  It's up to Thai Immigration to figure out where they want this to go.  Personally, I don't think they want foreign retirees here.    

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Go complain to your embassy! It was to concerned embassies to negotiate with Thai Immigration to find a way for people using the Income Method, and it was their responsibility to assure that all was in place, and that changes were announced by Thai Immigration, *before* they announce stopping issuing their letters.

I tend to think they should not have stopped, then let T.I. be the bad-guys for not accepting them.  But there would have been a lot of complaining if they kept issuing (selling) them, knowing immigration would refuse to accept them, then it came out that immigration had told these embassies their letters would no longer work way back in May 2018.  Since that time, it would seem a game of "chicken" was happening, and the embassies blinked first, to avoid issuing worthless letters. 

 

Denmark ending their letters immediately would seem to indicate an earlier rejection-date than "6 months after issuance" is possible - maybe Jan 1 - but that is just a guess, since our embassies will not reveal the details of their conversations.  BE claims (per a FOI) they took no notes on the exchange?  Then used that undocumented-exchange to form policy?  Sounds fishy.

Edited November 24, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, jessebkk1 said:

I have been reading thaivisa since 2006 and never had a reason to post a comment, however "Big Joke and current anti-foreigner climate in thailand" has really gotten to me.

Agree with your entire post - other than I don't think we can lay this at the feet of the latest head of immigration.  The nightmares at the airports, the increasing restrictions on Tourist Visa issuance, and the initiation of the embassy-letter issue (started in a May 2018 meeting), all pre-dated his move to Immigration from the Tourist Police.  In fact, much of this trend began before the last change in government - and it was the current PM who pulled-back ("apply flexibly"), when the last round of visa-exempt tightening was announced. 

 

As in many/most/all countries there is a sort of "deep state" - a group of bureaucrats and powerful people who stay in power regardless of the window-dressing.  Opposing them is often a suicide-mission (for one's career, if not life).  The faction within immigration who are pushing these changes has been at work for years.  They have not managed to get police-orders written to match the actions of the IOs within their areas of control (entry-points and offices), so they are clearly not in total-control.  But, they do have enough power to make up their own rules, disregard what the law says, and not be fired/reassigned for doing so. 

 

This letter business looks like more of their handiwork - but affecting expats in the whole country, in this case.  Still, no "law or ministerial order" was handed down - so still an "unofficial" move, in some sense.

[garyk]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Agree with your entire post - other than I don't think we can lay this at the feet of the latest head of immigration.  The nightmares at the airports, the increasing restrictions on Tourist Visa issuance, and the initiation of the embassy-letter issue (started in a May 2018 meeting), all pre-dated his move to Immigration from the Tourist Police.  In fact, much of this trend began before the last change in government - and it was the current PM who pulled-back ("apply flexibly"), when the last round of visa-exempt tightening was announced. 

 

As in many/most/all countries there is a sort of "deep state" - a group of bureaucrats and powerful people who stay in power regardless of the window-dressing.  Opposing them is often a suicide-mission (for one's career, if not life).  The faction within immigration who are pushing these changes has been at work for years.  They have not managed to get police-orders written to match the actions of the IOs within their areas of control (entry-points and offices), so they are clearly not in total-control.  But, they do have enough power to make up their own rules, disregard what the law says, and not be fired/reassigned for doing so. 

 

This letter business looks like more of their handiwork - but affecting expats in the whole country, in this case.  Still, no "law or ministerial order" was handed down - so still an "unofficial" move, in some sense.

You nailed it.

It scares me, the changes now, and what may come down in the near future are not good for me as an expat.

I will not, and am not going to put up with this nonsense. 

[mikebell]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They have been issuing MasterCards since the 5th this month. I have got one now along with my still valid Visa Card and even one of the UnionPay cards all on one account.

Excellent news - I'll be there at opening time tomorrow. Thank you.

[simon43]

Are there any forum posters who have lost a large sum of money that was deposited in a Thai bank?

 

Yes, I lost 100,000 baht when my Bangkok Bank ATM card was skimmed at their ATM outside a 7/11 on Sukhumvit Road.  The bank refused to reimburse me.....

[jacko45k]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Yes, I lost 100,000 baht when my Bangkok Bank ATM card was skimmed at their ATM outside a 7/11 on Sukhumvit Road.  The bank refused to reimburse me.....

Bangkok Bank cards use Chip and Pin as do their ATM machines, how was your card skimmed?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Bangkok Bank cards use Chip and Pin as do their ATM machines, how was your card skimmed?

Not the old ones. I still have one that does not have a chip.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not the old ones. I still have one that does not have a chip.

Why not update it for security reasons, I now have a 6 digit PIN one?

I suppose it means you can use it on older non chip ATM machines, but I seem to have ample Bangkok Bank ones I can choose from.

[xylophone]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:57 AM, cheshiremusicman said:

Seems to me, that the Thai authorities should start to look at a scheme where they look at your track record and start to say 'This person has meet the necessary requirements for the past 5 years', so instead of granting an extension of one year why not make it two, and when you have been here for say 10 years make it a 5 year extension. Surely, if you have been here for that length of time you have proved that you can sustain yourself with your income no matter what it is!

Ah, some of what we call "common sense" which of course is scarce here in Thailand. Mostly because they know everything anyway and also because of the "NIH" syndrome...……….Not Invented Here; ie. if I haven't thought about it already, then it's not worth thinking about.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, roath said:

Just because someone is married doesn't mean that they are extending their visas on the basis of marriage. Many people post that they extend on retirement basis because there is far less hassle involved, so don't jump to conclusions so quickly

It was the original poster "jumping", up and down so to speak.

"for their thai wives and are now being asked to Bank 800k per year"

Nobody with a Thai wife is being asked to bank 800K, the extension is of the applicants choosing.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Bangkok Bank cards use Chip and Pin as do their ATM machines, how was your card skimmed?

The UK has been using chip and pin since 2004 and thousands of cards have been skimmed, normally by a device attached to the ATM.

The cloned cards are then normally used in a weaker security environment and there are many places in Thailand using chip and signature.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why not update it for security reasons, I now have a 6 digit PIN one?

I suppose it means you can use it on older non chip ATM machines, but I seem to have ample Bangkok Bank ones I can choose from.

It is a Visa debit/atm card that Bangkok Bank does not issue anymore. I only use it for online purchases since I have other cards on the account that have a chip.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Yes, I lost 100,000 baht when my Bangkok Bank ATM card was skimmed at their ATM outside a 7/11 on Sukhumvit Road.  The bank refused to reimburse me.....

 

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Bangkok Bank cards use Chip and Pin as do their ATM machines, how was your card skimmed?

 

35 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The UK has been using chip and pin since 2004 and thousands of cards have been skimmed, normally by a device attached to the ATM.

The cloned cards are then normally used in a weaker security environment and there are many places in Thailand using chip and signature.

A bit off topic, for which I apologise - but it's not only Thailand.

 

A few years ago my UK bank account was skimmed (for relatively small amounts) a few times in the Philippines via ATM, even though I live in Thailand!

 

I hadn't used the card in years, so have absolutely no idea how this was possible.

 

Fortunately my UK bank realised what was happening before I did, and immediately reimbursed the money taken from the account when I (belatedly....) realised and 'phoned them re. the withdrawals shown on my bank statement.

Edited November 25, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[pastprime]

proof if needed ,never put roots down where a visa is needed,eventually bite you in the ass

[merijn]

51 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is a Visa debit/atm card that Bangkok Bank does not issue anymore. I only use it for online purchases since I have other cards on the account that have a chip.

I have a BB Visa Debit card with chip which i received a few years ago.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, merijn said:

I have a BB Visa Debit card with chip which i received a few years ago.

Mine was issued over 6 years ago. Never changed it to a chip card since at the time there was no urgency to do it.

[orchidfan]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There are few offices that require the signature of the consular officer on the document from the embassy to be verified by the Consular Affairs Department of the MFA. And some really odd offices that want it translated.

 

My local IO definitely wanted the Stat Dec  translated and the "legalising" process confirms to the IO that what I have had translated is "legally" confirmed as true and correct. Costs only a few hundred baht. The "legalised" Thai translation is being sent to my home address by EMS....60 baht.

Well worth doing...for as long as we can get a stat dec witnessed at the embassy.