Income statement letters from embassies no longer required, confirms Phuket Immigration

[jessebkk1]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

BTS is a public company listed on the Thai stock exchange, they make a profit, pay dividends. 

Even though I clearly stated BTS lines as one of the examples of this administrations over spending,  you should understand that the new construction of train lines is a partnership btw the thai gov't and the BMTA. Please read information on their website. The government is spending not just on the construction but also on the reconstruction of the land beneath the trains after the building is done.

 

  Again, the BTS is only of the of the many overspending that the govt is currently embarking on, you don't have to look hard to find the others. They are almost draining the nations coffers in order to create a false growth of 4.5%. So, In order to reaffirm my answers to the initial question asked about whether or not this income letter is partly fueled by governments attempt to "EXTORT" foreigners to balance the bank books - my answer remains a big fat YES!

 

 

   There's over a hundred thousand foreign retirees in thailand. If only 20% of that number moved 800k here and let it sat in the Bank, that is over 16 Billion Baht - a huge amount of money just sitting in thai Banks for visa sake.

[Olmate]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

They aren't Embassies where decisions are made though are they.......

Don’t get the correlation, TI Phuket made an announcement, not Oz consul?

[fforest1]

12 hours ago, Hockeybik said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong here... but at least in the case of the US Embassy they never really swore that you had the income anyway, YOU swore under oath in an affidavit in front of an Embassy official that YOU receive the income. Thai immigration wanted the EMBASSY to swear and verify that you have the income. It is totally understandable that the embassies could not do that either from a practical stand or from a legal stand. The demand by Thai immigration is unreasonable - in my opinion. They should and could accept past statements from US or other banks outside of Thailand. For US retirees it's easy to get a letter from SSA that verifies they are sending you money every month. Thailand should be paving the path to retirement visas with gold. Found money for the Kingdom. They should be making it THE retirement destination of the world instead of continually putting up blocks.

Gee immigration was just fine with the letter for the last 18 yes I just said 18 years... 

[chickenslegs]

10 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Really ? I thought the money only had to be in there when you apply - once granted you can spend it right ? 

 

If thats right where’s the problem ? It’s just a temporary bank transfer 

 

Or is is that incorrect ? 

Almost correct. The money has to stay in the bank account untouched for the 3 months prior to application. If it falls below the 800,000 - no extension.

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Really ? I thought the money only had to be in there when you apply - once granted you can spend it right ? 

 

If thats right where’s the problem ? It’s just a temporary bank transfer 

 

Or is is that incorrect ? 

Has to be in the account for at least 3 months before the day you apply unless its your first extension of stay where only 2 months is allowed.

[Olmate]

8 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Really ? I thought the money only had to be in there when you apply - once granted you can spend it right ? 

 

If thats right where’s the problem ? It’s just a temporary bank transfer 

 

Or is is that incorrect ? 

It has to be seasoned, then spent, guess according to you that’s not long enough to risk it, and have banks use it...for what good reason when they know we have more monthly income than is needed to live a decent and supportive role in this place,guess that’s not their goal tho!

[Jingthing]

It has to be seasoned, then spent, guess according to you that’s not long enough to risk it, and have banks use it...for what good reason when they know we have more monthly income than is needed to live a decent and supportive role in this place,guess that’s not their goal tho!

No spending requirement for bank method.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Olmate]

25 minutes ago, Benroon said:

So much paranoia based on zero evidence.

 

1) What was the last bank in Thailand to run off with anyone’s money ? I worked for too many years in U.K. banks and MILLIONS went missing every day through fraud, and we could not keep up. Also don’t forget all UK accounts sit in the cloud now (or soon will) on SHARED servers largely provided by Amazon  - think about that. It’s being cobbled together as they go along as there aren’t enough technicians to support it - if you have got those skills you will make far far more hacking those servers.

 

2) What is wrong with the Thai authorities wanting proof you won’t be bumming around their country living on a shoestring (and whinging about tough life is with your hosts) - this is a string in the Brexit bow that they want in the U.K. right ? - every country should have it if only to shut the racists up if nothing else.

 

If you haven’t got the lump sum get a loan and repay it through your monthly income.

As you say millions go west every day! Go try n get it back here and see how you fare, try getting back unpaid wages to your gf, try to get an insurance claim settled fairly, try going to court in a civil case against your landlord, let your kids back home try getting their inheritance when your gone and as for your loan solution.... ??75 year old pensioner living in Thailand seeks$ 25K loan. Should be a piece of p...!

[chickenslegs]

23 minutes ago, Benroon said:

If you haven’t got the lump sum get a loan and repay it through your monthly income.

Let them eat cake.

 

People who can not rustle up 800,000 baht from their pension or other income are unlikely to be eligible for bank loans. If they can borrow the money, it will be from (for example) visa agents, who charge very high interest rates.

 

 

[Olmate]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No spending requirement for bank method.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Benroon mentioned spend it

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

My bank does not charge ATM fees.

But Thai bank charges. Does your bank refund those fees? If so, would like to know which bank is that. I have ATM card of all US major banks (BofA, Citi - No charge in Bangkok Citi bank ATM, Capital One, Chase, Ally - Ally returns ATM fees, PNC). I also have Charles Schwab and Fidelity investment account ATM card and both refunds ATM fees. I will like to open an account in any US bank that refunds Thai bank's outrageous ATM charges. 

[Peterw42]

51 minutes ago, jessebkk1 said:

Even though I clearly stated BTS lines as one of the examples of this administrations over spending,  you should understand that the new construction of train lines is a partnership btw the thai gov't and the BMTA. Please read information on their website. The government is spending not just on the construction but also on the reconstruction of the land beneath the trains after the building is done.

 

  Again, the BTS is only of the of the many overspending that the govt is currently embarking on, you don't have to look hard to find the others. They are almost draining the nations coffers in order to create a false growth of 4.5%. So, In order to reaffirm my answers to the initial question asked about whether or not this income letter is partly fueled by governments attempt to "EXTORT" foreigners to balance the bank books - my answer remains a big fat YES!

 

 

   There's over a hundred thousand foreign retirees in thailand. If only 20% of that number moved 800k here and let it sat in the Bank, that is over 16 Billion Baht - a huge amount of money just sitting in thai Banks for visa sake.

Are you aware that Thailand , as of last month, currently has $200 Billion US dollars in foreign reserve, they are not exactly broke just yet.

Any foreign retiree brings in 800k per year, either as a lump sum or monthly instalments, either way its the same amount of money in the bank. What brings in more money, a one off deposit of 800k or 800k income each and every year.

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

But Thai bank charges. Does your bank refund those fees? If so, would like to know which bank is that. I have ATM card of all US major banks (BofA, Citi - No charge in Bangkok Citi bank ATM, Capital One, Chase, Ally - Ally returns ATM fees, PNC). I also have Charles Schwab and Fidelity investment account ATM card and both refunds ATM fees. I will like to open an account in any US bank that refunds Thai bank's outrageous ATM charges. 

When I go to my bank in Thailand and use my Thai bank ATM card what is the outrageous charge? 

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Are you aware that Thailand , as of last month, currently has $200 Billion US dollars in foreign reserve, they are not exactly broke just yet.

Any foreign retiree brings in 800k per year, either as a lump sum or monthly instalments, either way its the same amount of money in the bank. What brings in more money, a one off deposit of 800k or 800k income each and every year.

It is a pittance.  Far more is lost by sinking ships with hundreds of tourists aboard.  Non- Chinese tourists are more frugal in general, but will spend a greater proportion of their travel budget towards accommodations. Chinese tourists spent an average of 25,146 baht per person towards shopping on their most recent overseas trip, while non-Chinese tourists averaged 16,000 baht.

[sencelebi]

23 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

These people who do not trust the local banks.....what basis do they have for this mistrust? Are there any forum posters who have lost a large sum of money that was deposited in a Thai bank? I’ve never met or heard of anyone who this has happened to.

Those people doesn't trust Thai banks because they have no money to put in. I sold my business,5 cars and 2 houses (both were paid for) in US and moved here with my Thai wife as a semi retired and opened a business, I transferred very large sum of money over 2 years period because Wells Fargo allows only 100.000 US wire transfer per 30 calendar day  to Bangkok Bank since I don't trust US government for my money. I have no issues with banks here. Each transfer took only 24 hrs to be deposited to my BKK Bank account and I am not worry about that my money will vanish. So as you said those people has no basis for their mistrust. They just don't have the money. And also Thailand is not a Banana Republic. Of course they don't want to see low life Americans or Europeans or whatever living in Thailand for $300 a month and no respect to their culture. This country is not a shelter for low life farangs, who ever lives here for any reason has to have respect for the country. They welcome to leave the country if they don't trust banks, immigration, police etc. Who is holding their collar?  This might be the poor country but I don't think they need farangs living here and bitching about anything and everything with few hundred dollars a month. I've been seeing many foreigners feeding themselves 30-60 Baht meal everyday. They have to get a life before complaining about this country. They try to stay here because they can't survive in their own countries. So they need to go back to their country and bitch on their own governments why they can't survive. I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing people bitching all the time.

[derngt]

Lot of people are concerned regarding monthly deposit. In Canada we get a yearly statement telling us what our pension amount will be for the upcoming year. Do other countries have the same. We can also call and have a statement forwarded to us via email in some cases.  

[jessebkk1]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Really ? I thought the money only had to be in there when you apply - once granted you can spend it right ? 

 

If thats right where’s the problem ? It’s just a temporary bank transfer 

 

Or is is that incorrect ? 

You have to keep the money in the Bank for a quarter of a year unspent after that you have 9 months and repeat process. It's a yearly visa, most people would now have to keep that money permanently unspent.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, jessebkk1 said:

You have to keep the money in the Bank for a quarter of a year unspent after that you have 9 months and repeat process. It's a yearly visa, most people would now have to keep that money permanently unspent.

Your comment makes no sense to me at all. The seasoned money in the bank method has not changed at all. There is no requirement whatsoever to keep the balance up during the majority of the year. It's hard to know what percentage spend it down and replenish before the next seasoning period vs. those that just leave it alone but I'm sure the former is a significant percentage.

[jessebkk1]

28 minutes ago, sencelebi said:

Those people doesn't trust Thai banks because they have no money to put in. I sold my business,5 cars and 2 houses (both were paid for) in US and moved here with my Thai wife as a semi retired and opened a business, I transferred very large sum of money over 2 years period because Wells Fargo allows only 100.000 US wire transfer per 30 calendar day  to Bangkok Bank since I don't trust US government for my money. I have no issues with banks here. Each transfer took only 24 hrs to be deposited to my BKK Bank account and I am not worry about that my money will vanish. So as you said those people has no basis for their mistrust. They just don't have the money. And also Thailand is not a Banana Republic. Of course they don't want to see low life Americans or Europeans or whatever living in Thailand for $300 a month and no respect to their culture. This country is not a shelter for low life farangs, who ever lives here for any reason has to have respect for the country. They welcome to leave the country if they don't trust banks, immigration, police etc. Who is holding their collar?  This might be the poor country but I don't think they need farangs living here and bitching about anything and everything with few hundred dollars a month. I've been seeing many foreigners feeding themselves 30-60 Baht meal everyday. They have to get a life before complaining about this country. They try to stay here because they can't survive in their own countries. So they need to go back to their country and bitch on their own governments why they can't survive. I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing people bitching all the time.

  I don't believe anything you have said about yourself here and here's why.

 

  Anyone posting here and being completely apathetic to the plight of those who have been here for a long time (and have made huge investments in thailand like buying homes,cars,opening businesses for their thai wives and are now being asked to Bank 800k per year) is not human, and is either a bot or a paid troll.

 

 

[jessebkk1]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your comment makes no sense to me at all. The seasoned money in the bank method has not changed at all. There is no requirement whatsoever to keep the balance up during the majority of the year. It's hard to know what percentage spend it down and replenish before the next seasoning period vs. those that just leave it alone but I'm sure the former is a significant percentage.

  What part of you have to have a Balance of not less than 800k left in the bank for a minimum of three months before the date of application of the visa do you not understand?

 

  And this has to be done every year... So most would definitely be keeping that 800k permanently in the Bank. I cant help you understand it if you dont

[Jingthing]

Just now, jessebkk1 said:

  What part of you have to have a Balance of not less than 800k left in the bank for a minimum of three months before the date of application of the visa do you not understand?

 

  And this has to be done every year... So most would definitely be keeping that 800k permanently in the Bank. I cant help you understand it if you dont

I understand, dude. 

Very very well.

I've been using that method for over a decade.

I've advised scores of people on using that method. 

I've spent it down every year and "topped it up" every year.

You're making up stuff if you think you know that "most" people using the bank method just don't touch it.

There is no freakin' way that you know that.

All we can know unless you have some access to immigration records of thousands of people is that SOME people spend and TOP IT UP and some don't touch it.

 

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

1 hour ago, jessebkk1 said:

   There's over a hundred thousand foreign retirees in thailand. If only 20% of that number moved 800k here and let it sat in the Bank, that is over 16 Billion Baht - a huge amount of money just sitting in thai Banks for visa sake.

Are you aware that Thailand , as of last month, currently has $200 Billion US dollars in foreign reserve, they are not exactly broke just yet.

Any foreign retiree brings in 800k per year, either as a lump sum or monthly instalments, either way its the same amount of money in the bank. What brings in more money, a one off deposit of 800k or 800k income each and every year.

I tend not to think this is about the banks - and no idea about the various projects being funded - but that is more than I would have expected.  That's a very significant amount.  Even a couple % matters.

 

But you are right about money "sitting there" vs income flows being spent - which leads back to the question of why they are trying to limit those flows, by reducing the number of spenders.  "Weeding out" lower-spenders (the vast majority) makes the country poorer - not richer - because there are no "payouts" to foreigners to offset the gains.

 

20 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

It is a pittance.  Far more is lost by sinking ships with hundreds of tourists aboard.  Non- Chinese tourists are more frugal in general, but will spend a greater proportion of their travel budget towards accommodations. Chinese tourists spent an average of 25,146 baht per person towards shopping on their most recent overseas trip, while non-Chinese tourists averaged 16,000 baht.

Assuming those figures are valid (I have my doubts), averages are misleading.  A few very wealthy Chinese (children of the rulers) spend huge sums of money extracted from selling their "glorious workers" to the transnationals on the cheap, while the masses come in on "tour packages" and spend very little.  Ask Thais working in the tourist areas - they will confirm this - and no "tips" either.

 

Ultra-rich Westerners are not as common here, as they tend to go to more exotic and expensive destinations (Swiss ski resorts, private islands, etc), which would account for a lower "average."  OTOH, we "middle class" Westerners who do come to Thailand in large numbers (lower now, thanks to immigration) spend consistently, and in the types of eateries and guesthouses where there are more Thai-hires per customer-served - and which pay higher wages. 

If only the Thais who actually deal with foreigners on a daily basis could make the decision on which ones to let in.

[JackThompson]

 

35 minutes ago, jessebkk1 said:

  I don't believe anything you have said about yourself here and here's why.

 

  Anyone posting here and being completely apathetic to the plight of those who have been here for a long time (and have made huge investments in thailand like buying homes,cars,opening businesses for their thai wives and are now being asked to Bank 800k per year) is not human, and is either a bot or a paid troll.

His rant sounds like straight-up propaganda, to me.  Stories of poor farangs eating inexpensively sometimes (gasp!).  Has he seen the tour-groups eating at 7-11?  And how much per-plate at their "fancier" meals, at the group-rate?  I bet the restaurant is lucky to make 5-baht a head.  Yet no complaint about that, while immigration encourages even poorer ones to come with "free VOA" offers?  It makes we wonder where he is posting from. 

 

Many retire here because one can get a sit-down restaurant meal for under 100-baht.  So what was the problem?  Did the restaurant owner and staff wish they didn't have the extra income?  Did they say, "Please oh please, make these farangs (who actually tip) go away, so we can go out of business and return to bare-subsistence farming, instead of modernizing our family farm and building nice homes with the money we are making here." 

 

Immigration is not remotely "the country" or "Thai culture."  But a faction within immigration (not all of it) is a cancer within - and it is making the nation sicker, by bleeding away a source of revenue and undermining its reputation.  It is those actors, making up imaginary laws and trying to extort us via "agents," who act in a "banana republic" fashion.  It is this that brings shame - yet he tries to deflect and blame "poor farangs" instead - which really means "farangs too cheap to pay agent-laundered money."  Nice try.  The Thai people know better - and so do we.

Edited November 23, 2018 by JackThompson

[Robins]

3 hours ago, Acharn said:

So, the embassies say they are going to stop issuing the income letters (affidavits) because Immigration has told them they will not accept them without verification by the embassies, which the embassies cannot do. The head of the Phuket office says, of course they will not accept the income letter because the embassies are not going to issue them. ONE way you can prove you have the money is to provide a bank statement showing you have the funds on deposit (in a Thai bank). I'm waiting for the Chief of Immigration to issue a comprehensive policy statement explaining exactly what they will accept. I think they have to accept the monthly income, because it's part of the law, but they can make it difficult or impossible depending on what they demand as proof of the income. It would probably take me eight to ten years to accumulate the lump sum of ฿800,000. so I may very well be screwed.

I think many of us fit that description; yea we have the 65000 Baht a month required but scraping together 800,000 Baht to deposit in a Thai bank account will be difficult and unpleasant. 

[Maverell]

I  have been transferring cash from abroad every month into my Thai bank - never had a problem in 12 years. I cant understand why people who live here long term use an ATM card from a foreign bank and accept the outrageous costs involved.

[Khon Baan Nok]

I have had two types of residential visas in Thailand for the past 12 years.  I just successfully finished two weeks ago the 8th renewal of of my annual retirement visa.

 

I normally go to Immigration (Chaeng Wattana in BKK) with BOTH a certificate of monthly income (65K baht) AND a letter from SCB summarizing my bank balances (I have two accounts, one in dollars, one in baht) as of that day.  Immigration requires copies of my bank books for the past three months that show a combined minimum balance of 800K baht.

 

On the last two trips to Immigration, I have been told explicitly not to waste any further time with the monthly income certificates.  In fact on the latest renewal, I made the mistake of withdrawing the amount for my visa and multiple re-entry and it put my balance at 797K baht.  Even though the bank book copies showed the amount earlier that morning for 800K+ baht, and even though I had the income guarantee letter, I was required to go back and redeposit sufficient funds to reach 800K ON THE NEXT DAY.  So I had to repeat the process twice, though the second day I was ushered directly to the supervisor and everything was OK'd in minutes, very courteously.

 

My understanding now is that:

 

1.  Both the embassies and immigration realize that there is no real meaning to the monthly income guarantees.  They cannot actually be validated by either party so it is basically a meaningless process which both parties have resolved to discontinue.  I see their point.

2. The only guaranteed way to get the retirement visa extension is to show a minimum deposit of 800K baht for the 90 days preceding the the renewal application.  Immigration does not ask for, or want, bank book copies for any period other than the most recent 90 days, so you are free to "top up" to 800K as long as you are sure to do it in advance.  Otherwise the monthly balance is of no interest to anyone.

3. It is indeed annoying and inconvenient to have to keep 800K baht in a dead account for at least three months, but that is the rule, and if we want to stay, that's the one we have to play by.

4. With regard to the Thai banks, I find the concern about the "honesty" or "integrity" of Thai banks to be unfounded.  I've had quite large amounts in both dollar and baht accounts for 12 years, and have moved money back and forth between the US and Thailand, without there ever being even a whisper of an issue.  I'd trust SCB as much as I would Wells Fargo or HSBC.  More, in fact...

 

Thailand, though very different from even a decade or two back, is still an affordable and gratifying option to other options in Europe and North America.  Everybody gets to to choose what they like best...

Edited November 23, 2018 by Khon Baan Nok

[onera1961]

10 minutes ago, John P Ryke said:

$10 million of assets but could not have this money ($25000) in cash.

10 Million USD, that would be more than 300 mil baht. I just dropped from my chair. In his defense,  he did not say he could not save $25000 in cash. He only mentioned that it will be hard for many people. 

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, Olmate said:

Don’t get the correlation, TI Phuket made an announcement, not Oz consul?

Take it back into context of a subsequent comment, which I quoted.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   There is an entire section of the forum to discuss food issues.   This is not the place.  

[soalbundy]

12 hours ago, merijn said:

Just to be clear, Phuket immigration will still accept the embassy income letter as long it is combined with the required and accepted paperwork.

For the UK, USA, Australia etc the affidavit (as long they still supply them) together with the government pension statement.

For other countries the income certificate with supporting documents, same as before. (nothing changed for them)

If people for whatever reason don't have the embassy letter/affidavit only the bank account option can be used.

The IO in phuket said, ''such as 800k in the bank....'' ie. for example, that doesn't rule out proof of income by methods other than the embassy letter.