Why is this air con unit so cheap?

[HAKAPALITA]

My friends believe their Inverter makes a profit, i believe them, saves spilling my Leo.!!.


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[sometimewoodworker]

51 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

Thanks for clarifying quite interesting for future punters.  When I did my reno I went the insulation route walls and ceilings, I didnt purchase the inverter type as once the place cools it retains it for hours, I just have a few ceiling fans on.  Overall I dont need the a/c for more than a few hrs a day.

The shorter time the AC is running the smaller the dehumidifying effect, so possibly not the best option.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, eyecatcher said:

Its not particularly cheap, but you areall comparing with what you paid at a big box store.

I paid 10k supplied and fitted a new 13kbtu LG inverter just last year from an independant air con specialist.

If the fitting was say 2500bt, then my LG woild have been 7500bt 

 

So cheap?....no, normal price.

LGs are relatively cheap and if you buy from an independent that does maintenance they do not usually charge for the installation. By offering a good deal they hope to pick up the ongoing servicing.

I had 2 x LG 18K btu units fitted about 8 years ago by an independent, around 26K for the pair. Had them serviced by the same people every couple of years and never had a problem. If I had to replace them both tomorrow they wouldn't owe me anything.

[BigT73]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The shorter time the AC is running the smaller the dehumidifying effect, so possibly not the best option.

My ac has a dehumidify option, should I be running that as well every day? And how long?

[johng]

1 minute ago, BigT73 said:

My ac has a dehumidify option

Its a normal function of reducing  air temperature that humidity will be removed

( this happens like a cold glass of beer "sweating" on a hot afternoon )  warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

the dehumidify (or Dry) function will keep the compressor running for a longer time so cooler room less humidity and bigger electric bill...some people complain of dry eyes,skin,nose and lung problems from  air that's "too dry"

[Seeall]

21 hours ago, BigT73 said:

In most of cases inverters will be useless in Thailand as houses/condos are poorly insulated.

That has nothing to do with if its an inverter type or not..

[BigT73]

11 minutes ago, johng said:

Its a normal function of reducing  air temperature that humidity will be removed

( this happens like a cold glass of beer "sweating" on a hot afternoon )  warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

the dehumidify (or Dry) function will keep the compressor running for a longer time so cooler room less humidity and bigger electric bill...some people complain of dry eyes,skin,nose and lung problems from  air that's "too dry"

Thanks John!  Never too old to learn ????

 

3 minutes ago, Seeall said:

That has nothing to do with if its an inverter type or not..

Keep reading the thread its been answered, your input has answered all doubt.

[moontang]

EER at 11.6....might be unloading this model before it is illegal to sell them....

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Its a normal function of reducing  air temperature that humidity will be removed

( this happens like a cold glass of beer "sweating" on a hot afternoon )  warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

the dehumidify (or Dry) function will keep the compressor running for a longer time so cooler room less humidity and bigger electric bill...some people complain of dry eyes,skin,nose and lung problems from  air that's "too dry"

We have an air purifier that has a humidity feature ... you would be surprised how much water it puts back into the room each night ...

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, BigT73 said:

My ac has a dehumidify option, should I be running that as well every day? And how long?

Get something like this 

if the humidity is over 70% you will be less comfortable, if under 40% (unlikely to ever happen in Thailand) it can be even more uncomfortable if it gets down below 20% it can be positively painful and wearing a face mask very helpful 

[BigT73]

35 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

Sweet!  Thanks for taking the time to explain it, I will find one hopefully on lazada.

[atyclb]

why is poor insulation a factor for inverter ac's and not regular ac's? regular ac stops cooling (clunk) and starts again when temp rises. inverter motor can slow greatly without needing to stop and turn on again. ??

[Dazinoz]

7 hours ago, atyclb said:

why is poor insulation a factor for inverter ac's and not regular ac's? regular ac stops cooling (clunk) and starts again when temp rises. inverter motor can slow greatly without needing to stop and turn on again. ??

Nothing. Poor insulation will make them both work harder.

[HAKAPALITA]

Ive got 2 24000 Bthu in one room. 1 LG and one Seko- Denk. inverter. The LG seems to have the most powerfull blast, they Inverters a bit wishy washy for my likening. We buy from Thai who does local Hospital and matches whatever Big Shops offer fitting included. No more Home Pro for us.. The prices posted here are about right, not cheap. Both got humidity ting but i cant tell the difference realy, on or off.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Both got humidity ting but i cant tell the difference realy, on or off.

Well the "humidity ting" is interesting  but the only way to easily know the difference in humidity is with a meter, though after a while I have found it easier to recognise differences of over 20%.

 

You may not have dropped the humidity by very much. Just by having the dry setting on fo an hour or 2 may not make enough difference to notice, but start  exercising in a lower humidity with a fan and you will see the benefits very easily.

[HAKAPALITA]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Well the "humidity ting" is interesting  but the only way to easily know the difference in humidity is with a meter, though after a while I have found it easier to recognise differences of over 20%.

 

You may not have dropped the humidity by very much. Just by having the dry setting on fo an hour or 2 may not make enough difference to notice, but start  exercising in a lower humidity with a fan and you will see the benefits very easily.

Exercising, such language deserves a Holiday.!!.. Left it on dry for days not hours, then Fan, Dry, Cool n Auto. Sorry but to me its as much use as the Economy gizmoes on the Cars. Hardly worth mentioning or having, but within advertising regs  i suppose.I do enjoy listening to new Inverter Owners B/S over a Beer Sunday Lunchtime though.

[Stocky]

On 12/6/2018 at 2:31 AM, Hal65 said:

Is Mitsui Chofu a low quality brand?

Is it part of the Mitsui keiretsu?  I can't imagine they'd take kindly to someone using their brand name.

I had a Mitsui shortwave radio which accompanied me around Africa for over 10 years, worked fine.

[Yme]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:02 PM, Pedrogaz said:

Do you have any data to support this? I originally bought 5 a/c units with inverters at a significant extra cost over ordinary models. I have since bought a fourth 5 non inverter models.....I must say that my electricity bill has not risen at all with the new units.

We replaced one 2.5HP non inverter a/c with a Chinese GREE inverter and have seen about a 1/3 reduction in electricity cost year-on-year with no significant change in use. Silent, and does what it's supposed to do.  Wouldn't pay the extra again for Korean products.

 

Wouldn't consider buying a non inverter air con except for in a rarely used guest room, or for very slight use. 

 

 

[bluejets]

One important factor, especially for Thailand installations, is the "ramping up" of the compressor during startup.

This is has substantial reduction in the "voltage drop" factor normally associated  with the standard compressor.

As probably 90% or more of Thailand has insufficient mains sizing, or are running on undersize aluminium conductors, it becomes an important consideration.

[STMx]

Look at the warranty.

[cheeryble]

20 hours ago, STMx said:

Look at the warranty.

I've taken a chance with Midea.

Look good, 5 yr warranty all parts 7 yr compressor.

Looks good, works quietly.

Cheap.

Big Chinese company which spends a lot on R and D.

Can I go wrong.

[kuma]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:31 AM, Stocky said:

Is it part of the Mitsui keiretsu?  I can't imagine they'd take kindly to someone using their brand name.

I had a Mitsui shortwave radio which accompanied me around Africa for over 10 years, worked fine.

Back on to original topic. Just moved in to a new rental, has a Mitsui Chofu air con unit.

Never had come across one before.

So in April it was blasting hot this year - seemingly more so that in past years, could really feel it this time around.

We had that thing running non stop at night (use air in bedroom only) and it barely kept up, room was not as cool as usual using LG we had previously. Now room is a bit larger and presently in Chan vs Chon, so those are factors to consider.

Had landlord get it cleaned, and that actually coincided with the temps lowering a bit. It was doing quite a bit better after the cleaning then a few days ago the remote stopped working. They came to try and replace it but could not get any remote to work. So they in the end swapped out the entire control unit (or whatever the electronic module for air con is referred to as).

I do not know how old this unit is, looks fairly new. All in all based on this experience vs the LGs I have had in my condo for over ten years now, and they are still working well - I would not spend my money on this brand

[cheeryble]

One important factor, especially for Thailand installations, is the "ramping up" of the compressor during startup.
This is has substantial reduction in the "voltage drop" factor normally associated  with the standard compressor.
As probably 90% or more of Thailand has insufficient mains sizing, or are running on undersize aluminium conductors, it becomes an important consideration.

Are u suggesting voltage drop causes an auto cut out?

Is inverter better or worse for varying voltage?

Thanks


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[monte01]

It is my understanding that Mitsui Air is part of the giant Mitsui Corporation from Japan.  As such it is backed by one of the biggest companies in the world and I have would have no worries about their products.  however the low price must indicate that some things have been paired down somewhere. 

 

I suspect that the real reason is that this is old technology. The cheap model that you mention here (now 7,900 baht on shoppee) is a conventional system and not a more modern and economical inverter system.  That does not worry me.  The main energy saving difference is that the inverter system has a variable speed motor, where a conventional system has only one (or rarely 2) speeds.  Essentially the conventional model runs flat out until the correct temperature is reached and then stops, and starts again when it needs to.  The inverter model runs flat out to cool the room, and then slows down to maintain the correct temperature.  Running at slow speed it is quieter and it is not forever turning on and off.

 

The sales blurb says that the power consumption on an inverter model is less. but I suspect it will take a while to save the difference in price.  It also says that the inverter models will have a longer life.  I have seen this questioned by technicians who say that the inverter has much more to go wrong, and is much harder to repair.  Swings and roundabouts maybe.

 

I also have another reason to go for the cheaper old fashioned model - likely a Mitsui.  I am buying a water tank with a heat exchange unit which will run in conjunction with the air conditioning.  Reputedly it gives a saving of up to 20% on the energy used by the air conditioner (the compressor has to work less hard because the refrigerant has already been cooled by the heat exchanger) and provides free hot water.  I have been told that the system is more efficient with a conventional air conditioning unit 

 

 

[kuma]

On 6/20/2019 at 10:25 AM, monte01 said:

It is my understanding that Mitsui Air is part of the giant Mitsui Corporation from Japan.  As such it is backed by one of the biggest companies in the world and I have would have no worries about their products.  however the low price must indicate that some things have been paired down somewhere. 

 

I suspect that the real reason is that this is old technology. The cheap model that you mention here (now 7,900 baht on shoppee) is a conventional system and not a more modern and economical inverter system.  That does not worry me.  The main energy saving difference is that the inverter system has a variable speed motor, where a conventional system has only one (or rarely 2) speeds.  Essentially the conventional model runs flat out until the correct temperature is reached and then stops, and starts again when it needs to.  The inverter model runs flat out to cool the room, and then slows down to maintain the correct temperature.  Running at slow speed it is quieter and it is not forever turning on and off.

 

The sales blurb says that the power consumption on an inverter model is less. but I suspect it will take a while to save the difference in price.  It also says that the inverter models will have a longer life.  I have seen this questioned by technicians who say that the inverter has much more to go wrong, and is much harder to repair.  Swings and roundabouts maybe.

 

I also have another reason to go for the cheaper old fashioned model - likely a Mitsui.  I am buying a water tank with a heat exchange unit which will run in conjunction with the air conditioning.  Reputedly it gives a saving of up to 20% on the energy used by the air conditioner (the compressor has to work less hard because the refrigerant has already been cooled by the heat exchanger) and provides free hot water.  I have been told that the system is more efficient with a conventional air conditioning unit 

 

 

Great post, good info, thanks

[KittenKong]

On 6/20/2019 at 10:25 AM, monte01 said:

The sales blurb says that the power consumption on an inverter model is less. but I suspect it will take a while to save the difference in price.

It took me just over a year to pay for my new inverter air-con completely out of the money saved on electricity. Since then all the savings have been profit, and they probably amount to around 150kBaht or more as my bills are not much higher today than when the new air-con was first installed. I dont know how much of this saving was due to the new air-con being an inverter or just being new, but the saving was definitely there.

 

12 hours ago, kuma said:

It also says that the inverter models will have a longer life.  I have seen this questioned by technicians who say that the inverter has much more to go wrong, and is much harder to repair. 

My inverter air-con is now over 7 years old and has been in use pretty much constantly since it was installed. It has never required any attention apart from regular cleaning. If it does ever go wrong I will probably just replace it with a new one.

The main attraction for me was not efficiency though that was of course important. I am more interested in the smooth operation with no sudden temperature changes or loud starting/stopping noises. Inverter technology provides this.