CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[onera1961]

56 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

There's no mention of that it even will exist.

it clearly says it is for income for visa extension. Are people turning blind?

[skatewash]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

But I think that he assumed more than a child's ability of reading and comprehension and that people would actually read the translation before jumping to unfounded assumptions.

Well, that would have been an unfounded assumption, I'm afraid ????  Fully a quarter of the replies to yesterday's post about this new police order were from people (mistakenly) thinking it applied to them when it didn't.  That could have been a lesson learned.  Judging by this post, it wasn't.

Sometimes you have to explain things to people in a way they will understand rather than the way you think they should understand something.  The fact that people are jumping to erroneous conclusions can be explained by two theories:  1) people are really stupid, they don't read, and even if they do read they don't understand, or 2) information is being provided in a really irresponsible way that does nothing to discourage people from jumping to erroneous interpretations.  I'm leaning toward 2 myself, although I don't completely discount 1.

Edited January 7, 2019 by skatewash

[starman97015]

So, for those seeking an extension for marriage but receive income from sources other than a pension, it says that a personal income tax statement together with a payment slip is sufficient (unless I am interpreting this wrong). Then is it correct to assume that under these circumstances a bank statement is not required if income is coming from sources other than a pension? A personal income tax statement such as a copy of my US income tax return is enough? If that is enough, then income can only be shown up until the end of 2018. I am due for my extension in July 2019.

[Pattaya46]

28 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

33 minutes ago, damascase said:

From the OP: 

‘The new requirements state that applicants must be able to show income transferred into a Thai bank account.’

This is misleading and not a requirement in the many cases where Embassies still issue the income declarations.

Read the translation, embassy letters are included.

No. The OP is wrong.

The notice says that for those with letter you must show income no less than 65'000B,

but does not say that they have to Transfer it in Thailand !

[ocddave]

2 minutes ago, starman97015 said:

So, for those seeking an extension for marriage but receive income from sources other than a pension, it says that a personal income tax statement together with a payment slip is sufficient (unless I am interpreting this wrong). Then is it correct to assume that under these circumstances a bank statement is not required if income is coming from sources other than a pension? A personal income tax statement such as a copy of my US income tax return is enough? If that is enough, then income can only be shown up until the end of 2018. I am due for my extension in July 2019.

That would be the ambiguity part I mentioned above, but I think they want us to assume that means "Thai Personal income tax"

[sfokevin]

The next question is what “bank statements showing transfers from overseas”... will be accepted?... Would a bankbook with 12 months of FTT transfers be sufficient?... Will Thai bank statements printed from the Thai banks website be sufficient?... Or will they want some special bank summary document with all sorts of pretty stamps & signatures?...

 

Also what happens if one screws up and misses a month when they haven’t made alternative arrangements when the BK Bank ACH method end in April?...

Edited January 7, 2019 by sfokevin

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, starman97015 said:

So, for those seeking an extension for marriage but receive income from sources other than a pension, it says that a personal income tax statement together with a payment slip is sufficient (unless I am interpreting this wrong). Then is it correct to assume that under these circumstances a bank statement is not required if income is coming from sources other than a pension? A personal income tax statement such as a copy of my US income tax return is enough? If that is enough, then income can only be shown up until the end of 2018. I am due for my extension in July 2019

That would be Thai income tax for those working here that is allowed when married to a Thai or have a Thai child. Or it could be taxes paid for investment income earned here.

As I have said before in the other topic just ignore the pension part of the order they will only want proof you brought it into the country.

[MikeOKitches]

3 minutes ago, skatewash said:

It would have been nice if the OP had come with a preamble stating the following:

2) If you are in possession of an embassy income letter, then nothing has changed (assuming you will use that letter to apply for your extension of stay within six months of the letter being issued).  You can apply for an extension of stay using the income method which requires an embassy income letter just as it has been done in the past.

Yes, it would be nice to know if your Point 2 referenced in your comment post is 100%  accurate and true. I've been told there is specific language in the recent directives just issued which will support what you've written. That is, nothing has changed with regards to accepting US Embassy notarized Income Affidavits (e.g., US Embassy "income letters") for Retirement Visa renewals as long the aforementioned document is utilized within 6 months of it's issuance. My eyesight is poor and the anxiety with these recent events has most likely affected my reading comprehension. I'd like to see specific language in these issued directives stating that Point 2 above is accurate.

I got my Income Affidavit notarized and issued at the US Embassy here in Bangkok on 30 November 2018 with the representation from the officer that it would be valid for 6 months and good to use with my application for my visa renewal until it expires on or about 31 May 2019. I plan on going to Thai Immigration at Chaeng Watthana here in Bangkok before my Retirement Visa expires on 31 March 2019. Hopefully, they'll accept my Income Affidavit I got. This is Thailand, so I don't know what to expect. 

[roobaa01]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No. The OP is wrong.

The notice says that for those with letter you must show income no less than 65'000B,

but does not say that they have to Transfer it in Thailand !

and here we are , having 500 k in a thai fixed deposit 2 yrs and a german consulate letter confirming monthly pension thb 36k so do i pass the retirement renewal with the combo ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[fforest1]

This is a Thai classic....New info is put out that is kinda-sorta clear but not 100% clear so as to leave open various interpretations by both Thais and farang..... 

[Nyezhov]

Well not to muddy the waters, but under the terms as I read it, Certifications are still acceptable.

 

For Americans on SS therefore, you print out your statement, and bring it to the embassy with an affidavit that says:

 

I am Joe Smith.

My passport number is x and I live at y.

That annexed hereto is a true and accurate copy my SS awards letter, indicating I have income of X per month  from SS.

Signed

Joe Smith

 

I dont believe that the Embassy can refuse to notarize that.

[roger101]

12 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Well, that would have been an unfounded assumption, I'm afraid ????  Fully a quarter of the replies to yesterday's post about this new police order were from people (mistakenly) thinking it applied to them when it didn't.  That could have been a lesson learned.  Judging by this post, it wasn't.

Sometimes you have to explain things to people in a way they will understand rather than the way you think they should understand something.  The fact that people are jumping to erroneous conclusions can be explained by two theories:  1) people are really stupid, they don't read, and even if they do read they don't understand, or 2) information is being provided in a really irresponsible way that does nothing to discourage people from jumping to erroneous interpretations.  I'm leaning toward 2 myself, although I don't completely discount 1.

I go for 1

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

and here we are , having 500 k in a thai fixed deposit 2 yrs and a german consulate letter confirming monthly pension thb 36k so do i pass the retirement renewal with the combo ???

Nothing change on rules about Letter or Combo method,

So if you passed last time you should pass next time 

[onera1961]

30 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not easy. I'm not going to sidetrack this thread, except to say I bing in aud cash in one or two hits every year. I'm aware of various ways to transfer money. The best is to bring in cash and exchange here. Only suited to those that have reason to visit home country.

You still have to other ways - like 800K in a bank and agent. If you only want to do it your way or highway, you may have to look for other option. TIs not going to entertain your way only. Sorry.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, MikeOKitches said:

I got my income affidavit notarized by the US Embassy here in Bangkok on November 30, 2018. I was told by the US Embassy at the time that the letter (income affidavit) I executed (and they notarized) would be valid for 6 months from date of issuance. That would mean it's valid until May 31, 2018.  My Retirement Visa renewal is scheduled for March 31, 2019. I'm hearing conflicting reports from people who've been to different Thai Immigration centers. Some say they won't accept the US Embassy notarized Income Affidavit in 2019 at all. Is there any credible source that can definitely tell me if I can use my November 30, 2018 letter (income affidavit) in March 2019 when I renew my Retirement Visa? Or is just a waste of paper now? I was planning on renewing at Thai Immigration at Chaeng Watthana here in Bangkok.  

"That would mean it's valid until May 31, 2018."

 

I presume you mean May 31 2019 ?

[NanLaew]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The marriage extension/spouse part still refers to an AVERAGE monthly income of at least 40,000 baht throughout the year.

 

But the retirement extension section doesn't use the term average, and only says "income not less than 65,000 baht monthly."

Agreed. That's the only possible misinformation that I could see and wondered if it is different qualification or just inconsistent translation.

 

Beyond that, the (usual) stress monkeys are having a field day.

[zydeco]

47 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Her are the 2 clauses of the police order that has not been changed.

What about combination method?

[scubascuba3]

Anyone fancy clarifying the requirements for those "retired less than one year". It doesn't make much sense to me. If you retire in Oct 18, and apply Oct 18 then they will take the Nov 18 Income, but thats in the future?@ubonjoe

 

 

[MikeOKitches]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"That would mean it's valid until May 31, 2018."

 

I presume you mean May 31 2019 ?

Yes, that was a scrivener's error on my part. It should read 31 May 2019. I didn't catch the error in time to edit my original post. The Income Affidavit (e.g., income letter) I received/executed/notarized at the US Embassy on 30 November 2018 was represented to me by an officer to be valid for 6 months and will therefore expire on or about 31 May 2019. I just want to be 100% certain Thai Immigration will still accept this evidentiary document when I make my application for renewal this coming March 2019. My current Retirement Visa expires on 31 March 2019.  

[007 RED]

32 minutes ago, skatewash said:

It would have been nice if the OP had come with a preamble stating the following:

1) If you use the seasoned lump sum of money (400,000/800,000) in a Thai bank to apply for your extension of stay, then nothing has changed.  You can do it as you have done it in the past.

 

2) If you are in possession of an embassy income letter, then nothing has changed (assuming you will use that letter to apply for your extension of stay within six months of the letter being issued).  You can apply for an extension of stay using the income method which requires an embassy income letter just as it has been done in the past.

3) If you wish to use the income method to get your extension of stay AND
you do not already have an embassy income letter or cannot get an embassy income letter, then there is a new way to apply for an extension of stay using transfers of money (40,000/65,000) from outside Thailand into a Thai bank on a monthly basis.  This will be of particular interest to citizens of the UK, USA, Australia, and Denmark, as those countries have decided to stop producing embassy income letters.  This will probably not be of interest to citizens of other countries who can still get an embassy income letter.
 

What follows applies to people in category 3, as people who are in category 1 or 2 are not affected...

the full text of the OP could have gone here.

It would have been really nice to handle it this way, instead of having the indefatigable Ubon Joe and others have to reiterate myriad times that it doesn't affect people who use the seasoned lump sum in the bank method or who have an embassy income letter.  Indeed it doesn't affect people who can continue to get embassy income letters (that is, everyone except for UK, US, Australian, and Danish citizens).  This would have avoided needless angst and worry.  Indeed, it's not too late to edit the OP along these lines and reduce the amount of drama.  Something to think about.

I totally agree with your comments, it would have been far more helpful and created less ambiguity for some TV members who may have visual impairments.

 

I also think that the OP did not need to use sensational headlines and make false comments, for example:

 

“Here is an official English translation of the national police order confirming the documentation required by Thai immigration for foreigners applying for an extension of stay based on retirement, marriage or being a parent to a Thai child”.



The translation is not an official translation.  If it were, it would bear the official government stamp.  It is an unofficial translation provided by a third party.

 

They state that the document is a "National Police Order".  It is not, it is a memorandum which is very different in terms of its legal status.

 

“The requirements, detailed in a national police order and signed by immigration chief Lt Gen Surachet Hakparn”…

 

It was not been signed by the Immigration Chief (Big Joke), it was signed by his Deputy.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic, but TV should keep to the facts.

[bdenner]

Been using Baht Smart for some time now for my AUD transfers. My KBank statements shows these funds coming from a variety of sources. eg.

DUMMY BRANCH

Chang Mia Branch

Head Office

Etc

Nothing actually showing an international transfer.

 

So what now???

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

You still have to other ways - like 800K in a bank and agent. If you only want to do it your way or highway, you may have to look for other option. TIs not going to entertain your way only. Sorry.

In my earlier post #3, I stated I use money in bank method. The post you replied to is how the money gets to the Thai bank a/c. My last deposit of 800k up was early 2018. 

1 aud approx 26baht. Now its below 23baht. My first post in thread was referring to income methods seems to require monthly transfers. Very costly IMO. Perhaps read the thread.

Edited January 7, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[bmore99]

The way I read it, it only applies for those who can't get the embassy letter to confirm there income. Right?

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, MikeOKitches said:

Yes, it would be nice to know if your Point 2 referenced in your comment post is 100%  accurate and true. I've been told there is specific language in the recent directives just issued which will support what you've written. That is, nothing has changed with regards to accepting US Embassy notarized Income Affidavits (e.g., US Embassy "income letters") for Retirement Visa renewals as long the aforementioned document is utilized within 6 months of it's issuance. My eyesight is poor and the anxiety with these recent events has most likely affected my reading comprehension. I'd like to see specific language in these issued directives stating that Point 2 above is accurate.

I got my Income Affidavit notarized and issued at the US Embassy here in Bangkok on 30 November 2018 with the representation from the officer that it would be valid for 6 months and good to use with my application for my visa renewal until it expires on or about 31 May 2019. I plan on going to Thai Immigration at Chaeng Watthana here in Bangkok before my Retirement Visa expires on 31 March 2019. Hopefully, they'll accept my Income Affidavit I got. This is Thailand, so I don't know what to expect. 

Mike, I'm not even 100% sure that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.  But if I had to bet that's the way I would go. ????

I don't have any special insight into what will or will not happen.  But I can read and I've exercised that capability to read just about everything posted about this topic on this and other fora.

I'm heartened by part of the text of this OP, and I'm going to paraphrase, "the embassies of some countries decided to stop producing the embassy income letter."  The implication I get from that statement is that Thia Immigration (TI) never intended to stop accepting embassy income letters (from UK, US, Australia, or Denmark), but that those countries simply decided to stop producing them.  TI has not said anything officially or otherwise to my knowledge indicating that they will not accept embassy income letters from any embassy.  (I don't dispute that they said that they were unhappy at the level of "verification" provided by the embassies, but that is a far cry from saying: "Thai Immigration will not accept embassy income letters" from these embassies).  I really think those four embassies screwed the pooch, kicked an own goal, made an unforced error (pick your favorite expression) when they unilaterally decided to stop producing the letters. 
 

Thai Immigration didn't make them do anything.  Thai immigration expressed disappointment with the level of verification being provided.  There was no threat to stop accepting the letters.  For an example of how this works in the real world: I'm very unhappy that I have to pay US taxes every year, and yet I manage to do so every year, religiously. ????  So despite our embassies letting us down, Thai Immigration has seen fit to offer an alternative method for those who come from these countries to continue to get their extensions of stay.

Given all that, Mike, I think you're in good shape having the valid embassy income letter.  Of course, we could all be wiped off the face of the earth by a meteor tomorrow morning, but barring that I think you'll be OK.

On a serious note:  I do think this whole thing has been mishandled with this posting today.  It's caused needless anxiety to no good purpose.  It could have been easily avoided.  I wish it had been.  I get no joy out of raising everyone's blood pressure for no reason.  It's great that the translation was obtained but what would it have hurt to explain up front that it only applied to certain people in certain situations trying to do certain things.  I believe that was the responsible path to go down.  But I'm repeating myself, I've tried to make that point earlier in this thread.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, bmore99 said:

The way I read it, it only applies for those who can't get the embassy letter to confirm there income. Right?

Yes

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, zydeco said:

What about combination method?

That is still shown in the other police order 327/2557.

"(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date."

Not mentioned the police order that has been amended since you still have to prove the income for it.

[KhunFred]

55 minutes ago, skatewash said:

It would have been nice if the OP had come with a preamble stating the following:

1) If you use the seasoned lump sum of money (400,000/800,000) in a Thai bank to apply for your extension of stay, then nothing has changed.  You can do it as you have done it in the past.

 

2) If you are in possession of an embassy income letter, then nothing has changed (assuming you will use that letter to apply for your extension of stay within six months of the letter being issued).  You can apply for an extension of stay using the income method which requires an embassy income letter just as it has been done in the past.

3) If you wish to use the income method to get your extension of stay AND
you do not already have an embassy income letter or cannot get an embassy income letter, then there is a new way to apply for an extension of stay using transfers of money (40,000/65,000) from outside Thailand into a Thai bank on a monthly basis.  This will be of particular interest to citizens of the UK, USA, Australia, and Denmark, as those countries have decided to stop producing embassy income letters.  This will probably not be of interest to citizens of other countries who can still get an embassy income letter.
 

What follows applies to people in category 3, as people who are in category 1 or 2 are not affected...

the full text of the OP could have gone here.

It would have been really nice to handle it this way, instead of having the indefatigable Ubon Joe and others have to reiterate myriad times that it doesn't affect people who use the seasoned lump sum in the bank method or who have an embassy income letter.  Indeed it doesn't affect people who can continue to get embassy income letters (that is, everyone except for UK, US, Australian, and Danish citizens).  This would have avoided needless angst and worry.  Indeed, it's not too late to edit the OP along these lines and reduce the amount of drama.  Something to think about.

This STILL does not address the question of whether the new rules start NOW...or in 2020. I can't backtrack and undo what has been done THIS year, but if I have another FULL year to get all my money into a Thai bank, then there is a way to avoid using a visa service. No one has addressed the "2020" question.

[skatewash]

32 minutes ago, roger101 said:

I go for 1

Well, I guess it could be both.  But 1 is sort of immutable, not much you can do to fix that.  2 would have been a very easy fix.  And if 2 had been taken care of like I believe it should have been then we might have seen less 1. ????

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This STILL does not address the question of whether the new rules start NOW...or in 2020.

The have already started it if you don't have a income letter or cannot get one.

Read the example given. If it is the first time you have used the money going into they will on want to see one month but they might expect you to have it done since day one of this order since you have applied for an extension before.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

So the existing "money in Thai bank" 800/400, still continues and the changes only concern expats using "income, combo"?

BTW...personally I use money in the bank. I would not be happy now showing monthly income. Like many others, I have income from rentals, super/shares etc. Do not qualify for pension, because of super fund/assets. Would certainly not like the changes to replace embassy SD.

If you are from USA or Aus, it HAS replaced the SD as you call it. The UK never did SDs.