BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Straight8]

On 2/1/2019 at 10:33 AM, Roy Baht said:

When you rent out your house in UK for £3500 per month (140,000 baht per month), I assume you ask your tenant for a deposit? How much? Of course putting money in a bank account where is earns no interest is an "appalling investment" but 800K baht is not so much money and I suggest you think of it not as an investment (which it isn't) but as a deposit, allowing you to live in Thailand, just as you ask the tenants who rent your house for a deposit, allowing them to live there.

Even the lowest earning accounts give at least 0.5%, but if fixed term is ok, then you could easily get these at about 2%. Not great but better than the 0% people think they are getting, and it solves your retirement requirement, for now at least.

[elviajero]

38 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Unless an IO is providing an unofficial stamp in the passport and completely bypassing the application process a paper file is created. In that file will be photocopies (faked where necessary) of all the requirements.  

 

In most cases any faked documents are provided by the agent and the IO is by bypassing the uncheckable requirement to see the original. 

Are you certain that the rules require the seasoning-proof (copies of bank-book or bank-transaction history) to be put in the file for a retirement-extension?

Of course I am. 

[notamember]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Of course I am. 

unless you work for immigration

you do not know

[kickstart]

16 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

thinking logically, increase in living cost, inflation, healthcare etc etc, how much longer can Thailand keep this at 800K baht anyway?

 

People really do need to be prepared if they intend to retire in any country, including their own.

It was about 2005 when Thaksin overnight doubled the retirement extension money to 800K, he said farangs are getting a good exchange rate, so they can afford it, would they do it  now with the low exchange rates, and have they worked out how much us farangs living here spend.

 If they do up the amount, well a lot of farangs will be caught between a rock and a hard place, retirement in they own country not easy not enough money to live on, and I would say for a few farangs finding somewhere to live,

Or, clearing out all they home county banks shipping it all over here, with low exchange rates, and just hoping they do not have any major expenses in their own country .not easy. 

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, kickstart said:

It was about 2005 when Thaksin overnight doubled the retirement extension money to 800K, he said farangs are getting a good exchange rate, so they can afford it, would they do it  now with the low exchange rates, and have they worked out how much us farangs living here spend. 

 If they do up the amount, well a lot of farangs will be caught between a rock and a hard place, retirement in they own country not easy not enough money to live on, and I would say for a few farangs finding somewhere to live,

Or, clearing out all they home county banks shipping it all over here, with low exchange rates, and just hoping they do not have any major expenses in their own country .not easy. 

They are effectively raising the amount in a back-handed way with the new regulations.  400K is now completely useless year-round, and the other 400K (of 800K total) is useless for 5 months.  And done with 1 month's notice. 

 

And, yes, happened (albeit more directly/honestly) under Thaksin, which is why I don't link this type of thing to whatever group holds the PM spot. 

[notamember]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They are effectively raising the amount in a back-handed way with the new regulations.  400K is now completely useless year-round, and the other 400K (of 800K total) is useless for 5 months.  And done with 1 month's notice. 

 

And, yes, happened (albeit more directly/honestly) under Thaksin, which is why I don't link this type of thing to whatever group holds the PM spot. 

Thaksin also said that if he ever got back in power he would make the English expats pay dearly for the UK governments freezing of his bank accounts, man city sale, canceled visa etc

 

albeit more directly/honestly..............

 

 

 

[stud858]

I believe the agent uses his own 800k for seasoning. The deal that is made with IO for how long is most likely short time. 

So if the 800k gets the agent 10k after 3 months for service fee, that's 10/800 X 4 = 5 %p.a 

Banks giving 1 or 2 %??

But I'd think the agent would be better buying a condo and getting more bang for the investment buck.

Anyway I don't think it's left in for the whole 3 months and they charge more than 10k usually.

Anybody going through an agent that lends the money care to share experience?

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, notamember said:

unless you work for immigration

you do not know

Unless you work for Immigration you don't know.

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I believe the agent uses his own 800k for seasoning. The deal that is made with IO for how long is most likely short time. 

So if the 800k gets the agent 10k after 3 months for service fee, that's 10/800 X 4 = 5 %p.a 

Banks giving 1 or 2 %??

But I'd think the agent would be better buying a condo and getting more bang for the investment buck.

Anyway I don't think it's left in for the whole 3 months and they charge more than 10k usually.

Anybody going through an agent that lends the money care to share experience?

 

 

 

 

The agents money is in the bank for minutes. Long enough to update the bank book and for the bank to write a letter.

[notamember]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

Unless you work for Immigration you don't know.

i do not work for immigration but have a very close relationship with someone who does

so i know more than you know and more than elvajiero knows unless either or both of you have a very close relationship with someone who does

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, notamember said:

i do not work for immigration but have a very close relationship with someone who does

so i know more than you know and more than elvajiero knows unless either or both of you have a very close relationship with someone who does

 

Are you banging him?

[notamember]

Just now, Spidey said:

Are you banging him?

not that guy

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, notamember said:

you presume wrong

i can tell you that few agents are processing that kind of service

it makes up less than 3% of all applications

I presume nothing. And you are just making up numbers.

 

An agent can be anyone (visa agent, lawyer, HR dept). And any agent can charge a fee for a service. Facts.

 

A legitimate agent is helping the client put together the documents required to submit to immigration. There is nothing illegal or corrupt about that.

 

You are conflating fraudulent applications submitted (with or without an IO’s help), with legit applications.

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, notamember said:

Thaksin also said that if he ever got back in power he would make the English expats pay dearly for the UK governments freezing of his bank accounts, man city sale, canceled visa etc

 

albeit more directly/honestly..............

But they gave his sister a visa?  Is he still mad at the UK?

 

8 minutes ago, notamember said:

i do not work for immigration but have a very close relationship with someone who does

so i know more than you know and more than elvajiero knows unless either or both of you have a very close relationship with someone who does

So do they keep copies of the seasoning proof?  I am surprised anyone involved in this massive scheme uses "fake documents" that could hang them.

[notamember]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

I presume nothing. And you are just making up numbers.

 

An agent can be anyone (visa agent, lawyer, HR dept). And any agent can charge a fee for a service. Facts.

 

A legitimate agent is helping the client put together the documents required to submit to immigration. There is nothing illegal or corrupt about that.

 

You are conflating fraudulent applications submitted (with or without an IO’s help), with legit applications.

stop digging, you are there

so many people know how to do it now with the help of sites like this there is really no market for the kind of applications you talk/approve of

 

not making up numbers, i know the numbers

 

[Khaeng Mak]

49 minutes ago, kickstart said:

It was about 2005 when Thaksin overnight doubled the retirement extension money to 800K, he said farangs are getting a good exchange rate, so they can afford it, would they do it  now with the low exchange rates, and have they worked out how much us farangs living here spend.

 If they do up the amount, well a lot of farangs will be caught between a rock and a hard place, retirement in they own country not easy not enough money to live on, and I would say for a few farangs finding somewhere to live,

Or, clearing out all they home county banks shipping it all over here, with low exchange rates, and just hoping they do not have any major expenses in their own country .not easy. 

They have already upped the amount.  As Sheryl posted yesterday, because 400K must be retained in the bank account all year the amount of money that is required for an extension now 1.2 million.

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, notamember said:

i do not work for immigration but have a very close relationship with someone who does

so i know more than you know and more than elvajiero knows unless either or both of you have a very close relationship with someone who does

ROFLMAO.

[notamember]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But they gave his sister a visa?  Is he still mad at the UK?

 

So do they keep copies of the seasoning proof?  I am surprised anyone involved in this massive scheme uses "fake documents" that could hang them.

 

Visa ended was not renewed

there are no fake documents to keep on file as there is no requirement to keep any documents related to the seasoning on file

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Khaeng Mak said:

They have already upped the amount.  As Sheryl posted yesterday, because 400K must be retained in the bank account all year the amount of money that is required for an extension now 1.2 million.

Well, not literally.

Theoretically you could put 800,000 baht in for the newly LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG seasoning period and then spend down to 400,000 for the remainder of the year.

Or just keep in a static 800K as many do all year.

Practically for those of us that spend from it, we'll need to put in a good amount of BUFFER to prevent crossing the zone of extension death numbers.

[stud858]

Has anybody spoken much to the young falang man employed by jomtien immigration. He was in the photocopy office. I'm guessing he would be a wealth of information. I talked to him for a bit and recommend him for help on finding out about extensions, agents, requirements etc. I was really surprised to see them employ someone so young. He speaks 4 languages. I guess that helped him hit the jackpot.. 

 

 

[notamember]

23 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

ROFLMAO.

take care with the rolling around, after 70 your old bones will be brittle and it can affect you brain too,

huh? whats that? 

i said it can affect your brain too!

[overherebc]

6 hours ago, Ctkong said:

To built up customer confidence and encourage foreign investment, the central bank got to guarantee deposits to a large degree especially after the financial collapse... now after the dust had settled down, the central bank can reduce the exposure . 

Sorry, missed the tongue in cheek emoji.

[2tall]

What is meant by "permission" in this statement:

 

The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or;

 

Do I now need "permission" to withdraw my funds after waiting 3 months?

[elviajero]

51 minutes ago, notamember said:

59 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But they gave his sister a visa?  Is he still mad at the UK?

 

So do they keep copies of the seasoning proof?  I am surprised anyone involved in this massive scheme uses "fake documents" that could hang them.

Visa ended was not renewed

there are no fake documents to keep on file as there is no requirement to keep any documents related to the seasoning on file

It was reported last year that the British government issued YS with a 10 year visitor visa!

 

A copy of the bank book and letter are required on all files unless waived by a senior officer.

 

Maybe you could ask your ‘freind’ to show you a completed file. Inside you will see a submission form that’s completed by the IO and signed off by the offices senior officer.

 

The form lists everything required to allow the IO/office to issue an extension. If the file were ever audited, and a copy of the bank book was missing and a wavier wasn’t on file, the IO/Supervisor would have a problem.

 

As long as copies are on file the IO has covered their back. If seasoning — or any other requirement — has been waived the file would have to include a request from the supervisor that has been signed off by a senior officer.

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, 2tall said:

What is meant by "permission" in this statement:

 

The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or;

 

Do I now need "permission" to withdraw my funds after waiting 3 months?

Permission to stay.

 

800K must stay in the bank for 3 months from the date the new permission to stay is granted.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

The 3 months seasoning rule is not waived for agents. Agents and the IO in their pocket produce fake paperwork showing a passbook with the required money.

Fake passbook info is put in the file?  That seems reckless, to leave a paper-trail.  I admit I don't know the finer-points (never used an agent), but reports indicate the IO just reviews the passbook - and "forgets" to do it with agent-applications.  Others say a senior IO "waives the seasoning requirement" - but without evidence, who knows?

How would anyone know it was a copy of a faked passbook? It’s a copy!

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

They are effectively raising the amount in a back-handed way with the new regulations.  400K is now completely useless year-round, and the other 400K (of 800K total) is useless for 5 months.  And done with 1 month's notice. 

800K is a MINIMUM. You have always needed access to more than 800K, because if you spend any of the 800K you have to replace it.

 

All this change affects is the choice of what to do with your money for 9 months of the year.

 

The change is unlikely to affect many legitimate retirees.

[AloisAmrein]

No retirement in Thailand, there are far better places with much lesser hassles. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador, Vietnam, Malaysia and many more.

 

[Canuck50]

17 minutes ago, AloisAmrein said:

No retirement in Thailand, there are far better places with much less hassles.

I have been extending my stays based on retirement for the past 5 years using the income letter method by providing legitimate proof of income in the form of federal tax assessment notices. Although Canada has not yet announced they will stop issuing these, I think it is likely they will follow the other countries.

 

I will NOT use the bank deposit method for several reasons:

1. I will not tie up that amount of money in Thailand at a low interest bank rate and risk currency fluctuations when I can invest the money for a much better return in my home country.

2. I have only been living here for about 6 months each year (due to requirement to reside in Canada for 5 months per year to maintain free health insurance coverage) so it would be crazy to follow the new rules of 400K year round and 800K for 5 months.

 

I will not use the monthly transfer-in method because:

1. Again it would make no sense to transfer money here year round considering I only stay 6 months.

2. The majority of my income is from investments and personal retirement plan, with my government pension not meeting the 65K requirement. It is not clear to me that they would accept the non-government income, and even if they did, the monthly transfer/exchange costs would be too high. Currently I do one or two large lump sum wire transfers to meet my needs.

3. I am very suspicious that when they get large numbers of expats making monthly (income) transfers into the country, they will begin to exercise their rights under tax treaties to charge income tax on that income. This applies to anyone staying in the country for 6 months or more. It has not been done in the past because they had no proof the transfers in were income during the current year. Will be interesting to see (from a distance) how this turns out.

 

Anyway, given the steady changing (negative) attitudes toward expats over the past several years and these new (stupid) changes in requirements, I will not be renewing my extension after December 2019. I will instead spend my winter months in South America. I might come for a few weeks on a tourist visa for my gf to visit her family. Their reasoning for these changes seems to be to stop unscrupulous agent activity and expats "gaming" the system, but I think with their poorly thought out changes,  they will be chasing a large number of desirables away in the process. Then a few years down the road they will be complaining "where have all the expats gone?", as they did with the Chinese. Or on the other hand maybe they simply don't care. I am sure many considering Thailand for their future will have second thoughts now.

 

Lucky for me I took the sage advice of some TVF members who advised against buying property here so I am free to change direction without losses. Girlfriend is quite happy to follow me to live on the other side of the pond!

[sqwakvfr]

“No retirement in Thailand, there are far better places with much lesser hassles. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador, Vietnam, Malaysia and many more.“

 

I would disagree on “far better places with much lesser hassles”.  I do not believe the European countries offer a retirement type visa.  Most of us know about Malaysia(approximately $60,000 locked deposit to start with) and the fact a foreign pension has to be direct deposited into a Malaysian bank account.  I have never heard the countries in South or Latin America offering a Retirement Visa to foreigners.  I know many of the developed and developing nations (Thailand has a long way to go before it becomes developing nation) offer long term Visa for significant finanacial investment).  For example if foreigner purchase real estate in excess of $500,000 on Jeju Island in S. Korea then a 10 Residency Visa is available.  Thailand was(maybe still is) a place for the average foreigner to obtain a long term Retirement Visa.  

 

I am on my last extension and it appears for me as Sinatra said “And now the end is near”. It was fun while it lasted.  Time to go back to the USA, find an apartment, buy a used car, start paying for useless and expensive health insurance and buy some thicker clothing.  On the positive side wine is more affordable in the US.  For those in the know “Two Buck Chuck” at Trader Joe’s is my favorite( now it is $2.99).