For those who use visa agents ... A heads up.

[Mister Fixit]

Some worrying news came this morning.  This is just a heads up so don't take it as gospel.

 

There is a group of us 60-something farangs who use one or other of two visa agents we know of to get retirement extensions.  There are two, one in Pattaya, a Thai who has always come across with almost anything you want, and another in Chaeng Wattana.  The Pattaya chappie isn't especially pleasant, and seems to have a relative in the Immi there because he has always been able to do almost anything regarding visas.  The CW guy is much more pleasant and will tell you straight if he can or can't do something.  Doesn't mess you about and has always been dead straight.

 

One of the group called both of them about his own extension and they both said the same - no can do after 1st March this year.  Putting the 800,000 baht in a bank account for 15 minutes is now strictly off the menu for retirement extensions - certainly for the moment.  Not sure about marriage extensions if you don't have the money.

 

My pal is worried because his extension is due on 23rd April and depending on who you believe on how far in advance an application for extension can be made, he might just be able to scrape in an app by the end of this month.

I am better off in that I don't have to renew until July when things may have become clearer and normal service may well have been resumed, albeit changed somewhat and probably more expensive.

 

I have been told various things - that an app for an extension to a visa based on retirement can be applied for 30 days in advance, some say 40 days and some say 45 days.  Does anyone have a definitive answer to when it can be done in advance, or is it down to whichever Immi office you apply at?

 

And I can foresee a lot of applications to change from an extension due to retirement to one based on marriage + quite a few people starting the back to back tourist visas again.  

 

Does anyone else have more up to date information?  My info came as of 10 o'clock this morning 4th February.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mister Fixit

[DrJack54]

Depends on imm office. CW is 45. Many others are 30. Thai visa should pin a list as question asked often. OP thanks for heads up. I have mates here and there esp udon. They use agents. They live OK. Been los LONG time. Some have little behind them and now this problem. Let's hope this is all big joke and scrapped April 1

[ubonjoe]

Have your read the long topic about the recent changes to the rules for the 800k baht in the bank option that go into effect on March 1st.

Its intention was to stop the agents from being able to get those extensions that don't truly meet the requirements.

[DrJack54]

There are lot of expats that don't meet the requirements. The very same expats that live throughout los single or with families and enhancing the joint. And if they are truely serious get rid of all income statements from embassies. This stuff belongs in a Monty Python scene or perhaps Yes Minister.

[darksidedog]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Have your read the long topic about the recent changes to the rules for the 800k baht in the bank option that go into effect on March 1st.

Its intention was to stop the agents from being able to get those extensions that don't truly meet the requirements.

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer tot he OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

I do not think the agents themselves are going to be making substantially more money. It will be those they need to pay off (especially in immigration) who will be making more money, likely justified by their greater risk. This may be a feature rather than a bug in the new system.

[Mister Fixit]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Have your read the long topic about the recent changes to the rules for the 800k baht in the bank option that go into effect on March 1st.

Its intention was to stop the agents from being able to get those extensions that don't truly meet the requirements.

Yes, and it look like that is working - for the moment.  

 

I was just told this morning that the 2 guys I have used can't do it any more, but I suspect they will find a way around it.   

 

After all, if an Immi officer can be bribed to overlook the fact that the 800k was only in the bank for 5 minutes, surely they can be bribed to overlook the fact that it wasn't in the bank after 90 days?

[LivinLOS]

6 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money,

My guess is the IO review of income will be the place were paperwork will be invented and IOs will rubber stamp for a fee.. 

[arithai12]

19 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before

Perhaps, but I'd wait and see. The "way around it" must involve immigration officers ready to close one eye for a suitable envelope, and the new policy is not only related to the rules, but also it seems to more internal checks. See the news about IO's recently caught messing with visas for cambodians.

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

After all, if an Immi officer can be bribed to overlook the fact that the 800k was only in the bank for 5 minutes, surely they can be bribed to overlook the fact that it wasn't in the bank after 90 days?

As I understand it, senior immigration officials have discretion to waive seasoning requirements. This is within the rules. There can be legitimate reasons why it should sometimes be allowed. For instance, a retiree might erroneously have placed the money in an account of a type immigration are not allowed to accept. When the money is transferred to a regular savings account, but not seasoned for the requisite period of time, it is simple justice to waive the seasoning as it is clear his own money is being used. If agents can come to an arrangement with a sufficiently senior official, there is nothing intrinsically illegal about what they are doing. Of course, it is an abuse of discretion to routinely waive seasoning in this way and, depending on how well connected the official is, he could end up in serious trouble. Waiving finances altogether is not within the discretion given to officials at the level of head of an individual immigration office. I suspect senior officials will be allowed flexibility in enforcing the new rules, at least for the first year. We will see.

[JohnC]

I was in Jomtien Immigration on Friday to do my 90 day report, whilst there I questioned when I could submit my retirement extension application due end of April, two different officers told me 30 days before. 

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As I understand it, senior immigration officials have discretion to waive seasoning requirements. This is within the rules.

If so then the IMM Officer is entitled to the fee of 2000 baht per extension as noted on Page 38 of the Thai Immigration Act 2522 (1979). Anything more than the 2000 baht is a bribe.

Page 38:

(3) Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom under Section 35, per person, each time 2,000 baht

Edited February 4, 2019 by JLCrab

[sumrit]

31 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

I'll wait for an update on what your two agents can/can't do. 

 

I find it hard to believe they've already found a way around the system when the rules and regulations on how the three monthly finance checks on the money in the bank haven't even been released yet. They might be confidently quoting more money for the service now but let's wait and see how they get around the rules.......once they know what those rules are of course.

[Pattaya46]

43 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

// And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

I really doubt about that. I heard many guys being said 30 days max, and only know one who managed to make it more than 30 days before, but for a very serious reason (death of his father)

 

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was in Jomtien Immigration on Friday to do my 90 day report, whilst there I questioned when I could submit my retirement extension application due end of April, two different officers told me 30 days before. 

Agree. The nearly standard reply at Jomtien: 30 days max.

[Thailand]

If the new rules only apply to new applications,which may be the case,then still plenty of business for the agents whilst they find a way around the new rules.

[Vacuum]

48 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before

 

49 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money

The Thai way; difficult times, charge more, making more money? I don't think so.

[Pattaya46]

55 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Have your read the long topic about the recent changes to the rules for the 800k baht in the bank option that go into effect on March 1st.

Its intention was to stop the agents from being able to get those extensions that don't truly meet the requirements.

I agree with many people who don't see how this change in rules may stop Agent. 

If there were until now Immigration Officers who were ready to ignore the 3-months seasoning requirement against a brow envelope,

what will stop these same officers to ignore this 1-year seasoning requirement against a bit larger envelope ?

Except if there is some change in the procedure that we don't know yet, I don't see how the new rules could succeed to stop agents 

[grego49]

16 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I agree with many people who don't see how this change in rules may stop Agent. 

If there were until now Immigration Officers who were ready to ignore the 3-months seasoning requirement against a brow envelope,

what will stop these same officers to ignore this 1-year seasoning requirement against a bit larger envelope ?

Except if there is some change in the procedure that we don't know yet, I don't see how the new rules could succeed to stop agents 

Went to my local IO this morning to enquire about these changes and was waved away by Mrs Grumpy and was told no change no change.so mabe the local offices are not going to play ball,

[pontious]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

30 days in Pattaya - it would be something extraordinary for 60 days. Never heard of one that early.

Edited February 4, 2019 by pontious

[elliss]

  Agents and corruption , are here to stay .  Big money rules .

[Orac]

32 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I agree with many people who don't see how this change in rules may stop Agent. 

If there were until now Immigration Officers who were ready to ignore the 3-months seasoning requirement against a brow envelope,

what will stop these same officers to ignore this 1-year seasoning requirement against a bit larger envelope ?

Except if there is some change in the procedure that we don't know yet, I don't see how the new rules could succeed to stop agents 

 

I would guess one issue they need to get round now is the second check on bank balance after 90 days. At the moment it is down to one officer to waive or not check  on seasoning and he is compensated accordingly. Under the new rules this process needs repeating again 90 days later with no guarantee that the same officer will be doing the checking requiring a second mug of tea and the applicant over a barrel already having already paid the first officer.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Orac

[from the home of CC]

 in the next six months if a few IOs get busted for bribery in some of main offices all bets will be off...

[Mister Fixit]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really doubt about that. I heard many guys being said 30 days max, and only know one who managed to make it more than 30 days before, but for a very serious reason (death of his father)

 

Agree. The nearly standard reply at Jomtien: 30 days max.

That's what I have been told at CW for the last 5 years - 30 days in advance, max.  Never heard of 40, 45 or 60 days before, ever.  

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

Untrue.

30 days Pattaya.

[dabhand]

58 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really doubt about that. I heard many guys being said 30 days max, and only know one who managed to make it more than 30 days before, but for a very serious reason (death of his father)

 

Agree. The nearly standard reply at Jomtien: 30 days max.

I have renewed my retirement extension 39 and 35 days ahead of renewal date in two of the last 4 years at Jomtien. Both processed without comment from IO and I made no mention of the early application.

Both were done about a couple of weeks before songkran, this being my reason for going early to avoid the rush before and after the holiday period, so that may have been a reason for lack of IO comment. Who knows.

That has been my experience.

 

[Khaeng Mak]

I just did my last extension 40 days early.  At my office they allow 45.

 

Heard some offices offer 30.

 

Never (until reading the comments in this thread) heard of 60 days early.

 

This is just another example of what a mess the whole system is.

 

You can't even get clarity on a simple question like:

 

How early can I do my application?

 

Also please note that if you do apply early for your extension you will not lose any time of your old extension. That is, if you still have 1 month left on your current extension and you go to make a new application, the stamp you get will be dated 13 months into the future.

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[Mister Fixit]

13 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Untrue.

30 days Pattaya.

I was sent this by PM just now

 

 

 

[Khaeng Mak]

41 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

 in the next six months if a few IOs get busted for bribery in some of main offices all bets will be off...

Or Thailand could freeze over in a flash ice age incident.

 

Both of these possibilities have about the same chance of eventuating.

[balo]

Well the most reputable agent in Pattaya,  Key Visa , doesn't seem to worry too much . 

 

He posted this on Facebook 17 hours ago . 

--------------------------------

Worried about the new Retirement Visa rules ?

NO MONEY IN BANK ?

NO INCOME LETTER ?

BANK STATEMENTS NOT ACCEPTED ?

THEN DONT HAVE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS COME AND SEE US

 

Darren 

----------------------------

 

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, //

I wonder how agents can already announce such things, when nobody seems to know yet what will be the exact procedure of Thai Immigration to verify the balance history of our bank account... It's well possible that the procedure bring some serious difficulties for the bad agents (… and I hope so ).