Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[Tanoshi]

After a lengthy meeting with senior Immigration officials from Regional 4 district, regarding clarifications of the amendments to Order 138/2557 and the new Order 35/2562, I can confirm the following;

 

2.18 Marriage extensions.

Funds deposited in a Thai bank.

400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application.

Passbook or bank statement + bank letter as proof.

After the extension is granted you can withdraw part or all funds.

Income method.

1). A minimum income of 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments.

You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.

According to TI, all bank HQ's are already aware of Immigrations requirements for detailed statements showing overseas transfers, which your local branch may not be able to confirm or supply.

2. A certified letter of income from your Embassy

 

2.22 Retirement extensions.

Funds deposited in a Thai bank.

For the very first application, must prove 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, then 3 months after being granted permission.

You can then withdraw up to 400K, but must leave a remaining balance of 400K throughout the year.

For subsequent applications, must prove 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to the date of application, then 3 months after being granted permission.

You can then withdraw up to 400K, but must leave a remaining balance of 400K throughout the year.

Income method.

1). A minimum income of 65K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments. You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.

 

According to TI, all bank HQ's are already aware of Immigrations requirements for detailed statements showing overseas transfers, which your local branch may not be able to confirm or supply.

 

2). A certified letter of income from your Embassy.

 

Combo method.

Funds and income totalling a minimum of 800,000 per annum.

There is no minimum balance of funds required.

Same seasoning conditions apply as for funds in the bank method. (First application 2 months prior, then 3 months after. Subsequent applications 3 months prior, then 3 months after.)

The important factor for the combo method is that funds deposited and income must not fall below the 800,000 requirement for the year.

 

Funds deposited of 300K + income of 50K per month.

Funds and income total 900K per annum.

After the seasoning period you can withdraw 100K.

Income of 50K x 12 = 600K + 200K funds = 800K.

 

Funds deposited of 500K + Income of 40K per month.

Funds and income total 980K per annum.

After the seasoning period you can withdraw 180K.

Income of 40K x 12 = 480K + 320K funds = 800K.

 

Funds deposited of 600K + income of 60K per month.

Funds and income total 1,320K per annum.

After the seasoning period you can withdraw 520K.

Income of 60K x 12 = 720K + 80K funds = 800K.

 

For this year only Immigration will use their discretion, depending on the application type, to determine if foreigners are working towards the requirements for 2020 and will give subsequent clarification of requirements expected in 2020.

Immigration will check at your next application date if you have complied with the seasoning periods for the previous year.

Failure to comply with seasoning periods, inadequate funds in the bank, inadequate incomes, or a combination thereof, may result in a refusal of your new extension application.

 

Hopefully, this may clear up some of the many misunderstanding and various interpretations abounding on the forum.

[Maestro]

Thank you. That clears it up for the – unnamed – immigration office to whose officials you talked. Let's hope that the officials at other immigration offices have an equally good understanding and interpretation of the new procedures.

[glegolo]

Thank you so much......  well done..

 

glegolo

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Maestro said:

Thank you. That clears it up for the – unnamed – immigration office to whose officials you talked. Let's hope that the officials at other immigration offices have an equally good understanding and interpretation of the new procedures.

The commanding officer from Roi Et Immigration and her commanding officer from the regional office in Khon Kaen.

I did get their names, but not a chance of spelling them. 

[ivor bigun]

So that means that those of us who did our extensiones before the new rules 3 months 800,000 can carry on as normal spend it all if we like ,and then when we do our next one the new rules apply ,yes?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So that means that those of us who did our extensiones before the new rules 3 months 800,000 can carry on as normal spend it all if we like ,and then when we do our next one the new rules apply ,yes?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If you mean an extension renewal this year, then leniency and discretion will be used, but I think there expecting the word to get around and would at least expect you to show some effort towards meeting the full requirement for 2020 renewals.

You still be required to show 800K in your Thai bank account for 3 months prior to your application this year anyway, unless your a first time applicant.

[overherebc]

Nice clear post.

[Maestro]

18 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The commanding officer from Roi Et Immigration and her commanding officer from the regional office in Khon Kaen.

I did get their names, but not a chance of spelling them. 

There's a good chance, then, that all immigration offices in division 4 are on the same page and if the need should arise an applicant can turn to the commanding officer of division 4:

 

Immigration Division 4
Tel.: 0 4421 2997 - 8
Fax: 0 4421 8333
E-mail: [email protected]

[Delight]

Did you perhaps ask a Q pertaining to my 'Too much Money' post

i.e wishing to move from an immigration extension to a marriage extension  when my bank balance may show 2 Million Baht ?

Edited February 11, 2019 by Delight

[Mattd]

35 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Income method.

1). A minimum income of 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments.

You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.

Thanks for the concise explanation I am sure that it will help many.

Just one observation though (not a criticism), the 40k per month for the EOS based on Marriage, this used to be available based on income in Thailand, is that option no longer available, or was this just not asked about / clarified?

[phuketrichard]

Quote

.....For subsequent applications, must prove 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to the date of application, then 3 months after being granted permission.

so everyone before saying only 2 months before was wrong?

Thats 6 months 800,000, 6 months 400,000
 

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, Delight said:

Did you perhaps ask a Q pertaining to my 'Too much Money' post

i.e wishing to move from an immigration extension to a marriage extension  when my bank balance may show 2 Million Baht ?

Sorry, never saw your original post, but can answer your question as I faced the same problem when I changed from retirement to marriage extensions. I just opened a separate account with 500K in it and used that for the marriage extension.

They can hardly force you into the retirement extension if you only show them less than 800K.

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

so everyone before saying only 2 months before was wrong?

Thats 6 months 800,000, 6 months 400,000
 

800,000 for 2 months before and three after total 5.

3 months before following renewel would total 8 months and leave 4 months at 400,000.  For subsequent years it would be 3 before and 3 after plus 3 before the next so 9 months at 800,000 and 3 at 400,000. You would have to have income for living during the 800,000 baht months obviously.

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Thanks for the concise explanation I am sure that it will help many.

Just one observation though (not a criticism), the 40k per month for the EOS based on Marriage, this used to be available based on income in Thailand, is that option no longer available, or was this just not asked about / clarified?

I didn't pursue that line of questioning Matt, but was already under the impression if working in Thailand but obtaining a marriage extension separately, you had to provide tax receipts as proof of income.

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

so everyone before saying only 2 months before was wrong?

Thats 6 months 800,000, 6 months 400,000
 

2 for very first application

If you read it in conjunction with the old order it makes more sense.

 

Previously it was 60 days before for 1st application, then subsequently 90 days before thereafter.

Yep, 1st app, 2 months before, 3 months after.

Subsequent apps, 3 months before, 3 months after.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, overherebc said:

800,000 for 2 months before and three after total 5.

3 months before following renewel would total 8 months and leave 4 months at 400,000.  For subsequent years it would be 3 before and 3 after plus 3 before the next so 9 months at 800,000 and 3 at 400,000. You would have to have income for living during the 800,000 baht months obviously.

Er No.

3 months before, then 3 months after = 6 months.

Then a further 6 months before topping up to 800K, 3 months before next application.

[Delight]

 Just to clarify the income method -65K and 40K per month respectively

Can I assume that they are only looking at deposits from overseas –i.e income – and not looking at expenditure.

So with the case of retirement extension –an applicant having proven that a total of 800K was brought into Thailand over the prior 12 months can show a bank balance close to zero at the time of the application –simply because the money’ in ‘was matched by money ‘out’.

[brommers]

I have no problem with meeting the requirements but would love to know why they freeze 400k in your account. It achieves nothing for Immigration purposes and could be inconvenient for some. Has anyone heard any cogent reason for this?

[overherebc]

26 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Er No.

3 months before, then 3 months after = 6 months.

Then a further 6 months before topping up to 800K, 3 months before next application.

OK.

When I draw it out as a table I see it. ????

Does this fit for first application and leading to second.

Edited February 11, 2019 by overherebc

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Just to clarify the income method -65K and 40K per month respectively

Can I assume that they are only looking at deposits from overseas –i.e income – and not looking at expenditure.

So with the case of retirement extension –an applicant having proven that a total of 800K was brought into Thailand over the prior 12 months can show a bank balance close to zero at the time of the application –simply because the money’ in ‘was matched by money ‘out’.

They were only interested in monthly incomes from overseas, not expenditure or balance.

 

They even showed me examples of local bank statements, then the same statement from HQ, which gave precise details of the overseas source of income, sometimes with pension providers names where they were paid directly into their Thai bank account, others as Foreign TT transfers (Transferwise as an example) and government state pensions paid direct through the bank of Thailand, which clearly state a Bahtnet deposit.

They'd highlighted only the monthly overseas transactions, not any other transactions.

 

Something I'd probably do myself before submitting, just to make it clear to the IO.

The letter by the way just confirmed name, account and balance details, no details of transactions.

All the proof is in the bank statements from their HQ.

[steve187]

40 minutes ago, overherebc said:

800,000 for 2 months before and three after total 5.

3 months before following renewel would total 8 months and leave 4 months at 400,000.  For subsequent years it would be 3 before and 3 after plus 3 before the next so 9 months at 800,000 and 3 at 400,000. You would have to have income for living during the 800,000 baht months obviously.

that would be spread over 15 months, you can not count the before money twice in the same year, so it would be 3 months after and 3 months before the next extension, leaving 6 months at 400,000

Edited February 11, 2019 by steve187

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, steve187 said:

that would be spread over 15 months, you can not count the before money twice in the same year, so it would be 3 months after and 3 months before the next extension, leaving 6 months at 400,000

Yep, that's where I made the mistake.

Posted this table showing where I went wrong.

Edited February 11, 2019 by overherebc

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

OK.

When I draw it out as a table I see it. ????

Does this fit for first application?

Yep, correct, that just confirms what I stated.

6 months @ 400K, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sept, before topping up to 800K again.

 

 

[keemapoot]

So, this clarification (thanks to Tanoshi BTW) illustrates pretty clearly that for those who do not wish to tie up 800k in a low interest bearing Thai bank account, and even better, not touch it for fear of messing up the new seasoning rules, that the preferred methods going forward for many people might either be combination method (tying up less cash), in either marriage extension or Retirement, or simply the monthly income method only in either marriage or retirement amounts.

 

Before we had this clarification, there was doubt as to whether the combination method was viable anymore, so I think this clarifies that, at least for now.

[elliss]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

The commanding officer from Roi Et Immigration and her commanding officer from the regional office in Khon Kaen.

I did get their names, but not a chance of spelling them. 

   Good  info ,  Roi Et , be there soon.

[johnjohn2]

47 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Just to clarify the income method -65K and 40K per month respectively

Can I assume that they are only looking at deposits from overseas –i.e income – and not looking at expenditure.

So with the case of retirement extension –an applicant having proven that a total of 800K was brought into Thailand over the prior 12 months can show a bank balance close to zero at the time of the application –simply because the money’ in ‘was matched by money ‘out’.

I was at my immigration office today (Khon Kaen) and was asking questions about this. I showed them my bank book and statements and told them that when I get my money transferred I immediately transfer the bulk of it to my wifes account as she pays all the bills from her account, and if that was a problem? They said no they dont care. As long as I could show the transfer in.

However they did say the transfers have to be Every month of at least the min amount (40/65).

Even if you transferred 1 million baht during those 12 months but missed a month for the min required amount then your out of luck for the income method.

Edited February 11, 2019 by johnjohn2

[skatewash]

Good job!

 

1) 2 routes exist for the income method:  monthly deposit route OR income letter

 

Just some points of clarification.  Where you show income method you have two numbered points: 1) the monthly deposit route and 2) the embassy letter route. 

 

I'm hoping this is meant to be obvious but it's one or the other right?  1 or 2?  Not both?

 

In other words, the embassy letter route remains for those who can obtain one, and for those who can't the monthly deposit route is acceptable without one?

 

2) Monthly deposit transaction codes: required to be international or not

 

You mention that the monthly deposits may be marked as international (e.g., FTT) or domestic (e.g., BNT).  Are both acceptable?  In other words, they are not insisting that everything be an FTT, are they?  A deposit that had a domestic marking would be acceptable?

Or am I misunderstanding and you are saying they regard Bahtnet as an international transfer code? 

 

3) Source of income needs to be documented or not (pension vs. investment earnings)

 

About the source of the transferred money.  From what you've written they don't seem to be interested in the source.  Is that right?  I'm talking about the monthly deposit route of the income method.  The money speaks for itself?  I understand that if you use the embassy letter route you might be expected to offer documentation to substantiate the income, but for the monthly deposit route is that also required?  If it's deposited in the account they aren't interested in seeing a statement from a pension?  Income derived from investments is OK?

[brokenbone]

400k in bank + embassy income letter =400k+ is enough ?

 

can i use the bank money during the year ?

[DrJack54]

Thanks OP, good report. I'm in the money in bank method retirement. 

I would suggest that I won't be the only one now electing to just put 800k in a bank account and leaving it. With all the dates of 800 for this period and 400 for that.....I realize it ain't rocket science but one could easily make a calendar error. I feel for those that were just able to meet previous requirements and now this does tie up more funds. Perhaps funds some don't have. Anyway it is what it is. BTW any suggestions for a bank offering OK fixed term. My light blue bank is rubbish bank.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I'm hoping this is meant to be obvious but it's one or the other right?  1 or 2?  Not both?

 

In other words, the embassy letter route remains for those who can obtain one, and for those who can't the monthly deposit route is acceptable without one?

Correct. Income letter from Embassy, OR, bank statements + letter from bank.

 

5 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Or am I misunderstanding and you are saying they regard Bahtnet as an international transfer code? 

Bahnet is the system used when deposits go through the Bank of Thailand before reaching your local account.

Yes they regarded that as proof of foreign income.

In fact the example they showed used the Bahtnet code, but had the full name of the payee, in this case a private pension provider.

 

9 minutes ago, skatewash said:

About the source of the transferred money.  From what you've written they don't seem to be interested in the source.  Is that right?  I'm talking about the monthly deposit route of the income method.  The money speaks for itself?  I understand that if you use the embassy letter route you might be expected to offer documentation to substantiate the income, but for the monthly deposit route is that also required?  If it's deposited in the account they aren't interested in seeing a statement from a pension?  Income derived from investments is OK?

If using bank statements, then the source of the deposit is paramount.

It must come from overseas (unless earned in Thailand, that would be proven by tax receipts).

 

The Embassy letters only certify your annual/monthly income with proof shown to the Embassy.

The Embassy letter isn't proof your transferring the funds. No proof requested so far by Immigration in that respect.