After 11 years in Chiang Mai, I was Denied Entry

[Genericnic]

The OPs post made clear that he was gaming the system so that he could spend more time in Thailand than the law allowed and he was unhappy about being caught. Despite that, it has managed to generate 15 pages of comments. Amazing.

 

David

 

[ChoakMyDee]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Wealthy people are the tightest <deleted> in the world.

You don't get wealthy or stay wealthy by throwing money away.

Not that the truly wealthy would ever spend much time (if any) in Thailand.

 

I happen to know a European multi-millionaire living permanently in Phuket. I'm pretty sure he's not the only one.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

The OPs post made clear that he was gaming the system so that he could spend more time in Thailand than the law allowed and he was unhappy about being caught. Despite that, it has managed to generate 15 pages of comments. Amazing.

There's no law that specifies how long you can stay in Thailand.

If there were they would have written 'stayed too long in Thailand' in his passport as the reason for denying him entry.

Edited March 23, 2019 by BritManToo

[TigerandDog]

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• Report post
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•  #1

Posted yesterday at 04:35 AM

"I say in Thai again "I've done absolutely nothing wrong, their is nothing to say that i can't come in an

 out of the country many times, "

 

Sorry to disappoint you but YOU are WRONG and THEY ARE RIGHT. You are ONLY permitted to enter

Thailand on the 30 day visa on arrival 4 times per year between 1 Jan & 31 Dec. Any more than that

and you MUST have a proper visa.

[Vacuum]

On 3/22/2019 at 3:16 AM, Old Croc said:

By his own admission he's not a tourist.

No, he was a "businessman" and after that a "student" for seven years.

[Thailand Outcast]

33 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

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• Report post
•  
•  #1

Posted yesterday at 04:35 AM

"I say in Thai again "I've done absolutely nothing wrong, their is nothing to say that i can't come in an

 out of the country many times, "

 

Sorry to disappoint you but YOU are WRONG and THEY ARE RIGHT. You are ONLY permitted to enter

Thailand on the 30 day visa on arrival 4 times per year between 1 Jan & 31 Dec. Any more than that

and you MUST have a proper visa.

Do you have a link to this? 

 

If what you say is correct, one could effectively stay 8 consecitive months of the year in Thailand. 

 

30 day exempt, then extend = 60 days x 4 = 8 months.  Then you must leave for 4 months. 

 

You could spread it out a little with a couple of 2 week holidays, to effectively in Thailand 9 months of the year on visa exemption stamps and extensions. 

 

Somehow, I can't see this being being allowed.

[DrJack54]

47 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

No, he was a "businessman" and after that a "student" for seven years.

What was his major subject area in 7 years? 

Gaming masters degree?

Edited March 23, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[moe666]

Well boys the good old days are over get a visa or the big money entry. They have been cracking down on people using the visa exempt entry for sometime now I guess our poster hasn't been reading Thai Visa

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Eventually people will stop conflating the requirement of 12 (9) with (2).

I am aware that 12 (9) and 12 (2) are separate. One has to do with an explicit minimum amount of cash to show on entry. The other instructs the official to deny entry if (in spite of the cash) the arrival appears to lack the means to support his stay. This might be someone arriving on a one-way ticket who cannot explain how they will support themselves.

 

I fail to see how Section 12 (2) gains a different meaning for your second, third or fourth visit compared with your first visit to Thailand. If you have shown a previous ability to support yourself, why should this be regarded as evidence that you no longer can?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

•  

• Report post
•  
•  #1

Posted yesterday at 04:35 AM

"I say in Thai again "I've done absolutely nothing wrong, their is nothing to say that i can't come in an

 out of the country many times, "

 

Sorry to disappoint you but YOU are WRONG and THEY ARE RIGHT. You are ONLY permitted to enter

Thailand on the 30 day visa on arrival 4 times per year between 1 Jan & 31 Dec. Any more than that

and you MUST have a proper visa.

Source? I know of a twice per calendar year by land rule, but have been under the impression that the only published rule on visa exempt entries by air is that promulgated in 2015 (modified by the prime minter's advice that it be applied "flexibly") that back-to-back visa exempt entries cannot be used to spend more time in Thailand than necessary for tourism.

[MrBingley]

7 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Elite visa holders are not authorized to work, contribute to social security, and pay taxes. Iglu workers are entitled for all of these

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Are you an Iglu employee by any chance? Not sure how to make sense of your post otherwise. Was it just for the record or to point out an inaccuracy in what I wrote? I guess they have two schemes because they solve different problems. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by MrBingley

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Source? I know of a twice per calendar year by land rule, but have been under the impression that the only published rule on visa exempt entries by air is that promulgated in 2015 (modified by the prime minter's advice that it be applied "flexibly") that back-to-back visa exempt entries cannot be used to spend more time in Thailand than necessary for tourism.

He would not be able to provide a source since there is no such rule, order or regulation.

I am aware of many people enter the country at least once a month from countries within the region for short getaways that have never had a problem entering the country.

[Captain 776]

Having an Education Visa for 7 yrs raises Red Flags all by itself.

 

Probably 75% of Education Visas are because they are too young for Retirement Visas or another method to stay in country long term.

I don’t fault anyone for that but having one more than a few years is bound to raise questions......isn’t it?

[Briggsy]

35 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The other instructs the official to deny entry if (in spite of the cash) the arrival appears to lack the means to support his stay.

I am not sure I agree with this.

 

The phrase "not having a correct means of supporting oneself" could equally be interpreted as using SETV's and visa exempts, which are not means-tested, repeatedly, back-to-back, to de facto live in Thailand is a breach of 12 (2). I believe the use of 12 (2) has nothing to do with the wealth and liquidity of the foreigner but rather the visa or visa exempt they use and the fact that the users cannot work in Thailand and the visa is not means-tested.

 

So, the foreigner is living in the country, albeit on temporary bases, one after another, without having proved to the authorities he can support himself or without a compelling reason such as visiting a Thai spouse.

 

Of course, if this interpretation is being applied, then the consulates and embassies should fall in line and they haven't.

[BritTim]

36 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

The phrase "not having a correct means of supporting oneself" could equally be interpreted as using SETV's and visa exempts, which are not means-tested, repeatedly, back-to-back, to de facto live in Thailand is a breach of 12 (2). I believe the use of 12 (2) has nothing to do with the wealth and liquidity of the foreigner but rather the visa or visa exempt they use and the fact that the users cannot work in Thailand and the visa is not means-tested.

I think deciding if you qualify for a tourist visa is definitely the responsibility of the consulate that issues the visa. In many cases, they do actually ask for financial proof. For people from low income countries (such as the Indian subcontinent and most of Africa) consulates are stricter about granting Thai visas. There is no particular reason to believe someone who can support themselves for their first three visits should be unable to do so for their fourth. Certainly, I can see low cost visa exempt entries by land as a possible way people with very limited resources might stay in Thailand, but people flying around the region while spending most of their time in Thailand can surely afford to do so. The limit on visa exempt entries by land addresses that. If immigration think they have proof of illegal working, they should use Section 12 (3) to deny entry.

 

I am still unconvinced that the drafters of Section 12 (2) intended it to mean that immigration officials should second guess the consulates on whether someone was using the right kind of visa for their entry into Thailand.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

The phrase "not having a correct means of supporting oneself" could equally be interpreted

There's no 'correct' in the translation, 'No means to support himself while in the Kingdom' is the correct and complete translation. You apologists trying to rewrite the translation while not being able to read a word of the original Thai is beyond pathetic.

 

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

They can use it for long term tourists because — as a tourist — they haven’t met any test to prove how they “support themselves”.

 

And as I’ve explained before, waiving a bank statement or wod of cash at the border is neither the time or place to prove your “means of living”, so it’s usually ignored by the IO.

In that case, no one can enter Thailand on Visa Exempt, because no one has a way to pass this test.  End of story.  Previous "time in country" would show more basis for having a means of support, proven over time - not less.  If this context, newcomers would the first to be denied entry.

 

As the same stamp/reason for rejected-entry is being reported for those with valid Tourist Visas, all those entering with valid Visas for Tourism, ED, Non-O, etc are also no longer eligible to enter the country.  The financial matters for Visa-issuance is addressed by the MFA, but if immigration believes the MFA is incompetent, or their rules are insufficient and subject to being overridden, then all Visas are completely useless. 

 

4 hours ago, Genericnic said:

The OPs post made clear that he was gaming the system so that he could spend more time in Thailand than the law allowed and he was unhappy about being caught.

As overstay was not an issue, please cite the law or ministerial/police order specifying "time allowed" in a non-overstay context. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just curious -- regarding the notion of a Plan B if previously denied entry at Swampy or DMK.....

 

There was prior talk in this thread about going back to Phnom Penh and starting over from there, with either a land entry back to Thailand or some other airport other than BKK or DMK.

 

But I was looking at the airline booking sites today, and I don't see/can't find any direct flights from Phnom Penh direct to anywhere else in Thailand but BKK or DMK.  There are of course connecting flights that go from PP to BKK or DMK and then onward to other Thailand cities.

 

So I guess the question becomes, if you're coming back from a place like Phnom Penh because you've had trouble with Immigration at BKK or DMK and you want to avoid them, and you have a connecting flight to another city, do you still have to go thru Immigration in BKK or can wait to do so until reaching your final destination?

 

If you have to go thru Immigration at your first entry point into Thailand, which would be BKK or DMK because there are no direct flights from PP into Thailand that avoid those airports, then I don't see any air trip way to avoid them???

 

Just by way of example, I searched for all flights from PP to CM, and got this result -- It looks like pretty much all the flights from PP into Thailand go thru one of the BKK airports. And the flights that don't go thru BKK go to some very far afield other Asian countries before coming back to CM.

 

 

Here's what you get if you want to go from PP to CM and avoid going thru BKK/DMK:

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lkv]

I see so much discussion here about what "means of living in the Kingdom" means.

 

At the end of the day, all the IO cares about is doing his quota and/or following instructions from his boss.

 

If there's a crackdown, there's a crackdown. Who happens to be at the wrong place and time, tough luck (i.e. your flight happens to land that particular day).

 

They seem to be occasional, but regular, one day they do the crackdown, next day it's all smiles and "Welcome to Thailand".

 

Same as all the X-ray foreigner operations (which by the way seem to take place Thursday night / Friday morning all the time, at a frequency of about 3-4 weeks or so).

 

We seem to be getting stuck in semantics with "means of living" and all that. The system does not fuction like in the West. It's still a third world country that's heavily corrupt. It baffles me why people still try to apply Western logic in Thailand.

Edited March 23, 2019 by lkv

[Peasandmash]

How awful. I've flown in and out of Thailand many times although I go to Macau.  I've never had a problem with immigration at either end. Maybe it's because I don't wear trainers? Who knows? 

[BritTim]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But I was looking at the airline booking sites today, and I don't see/can't find any direct flights from Phnom Penh direct to anywhere else in Thailand but BKK or DMK.  There are of course connecting flights that go from PP to BKK or DMK and then onward to other Thailand cities.

Some flights through Bangkok to other Thai international airports (such as Chiang Mai) allow you to clear immigration at your final destination.

 

That said, I would recommend something like flying to Pakse, crossing by land at Chong Mek, and flying back to Bangkok (or wherever else you want to go) from Ubon Ratchathani airport. Land crossings, in most cases, are just safer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Some flights through Bangkok to other Thai international airports (such as Chiang Mai) allow you to clear immigration at your final destination.

 

 

I have no great expertise at avoiding BKK Immigration. Any idea how anyone would know whether any particular airline connecting flight into Thailand is going to require you to go thru Immigration in BKK vs. having you do it at your end arrival city?

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I have no great expertise at avoiding BKK Immigration. Any idea how anyone would know whether any particular airline connecting flight into Thailand is going to require you to go thru Immigration in BKK vs. having you do it at your end arrival city?

This was exactly the error made by the OP at DM - he thought he could clear immigration at the destination-airport.  I do not know of a chart or similar that states this information. 

 

It is an odd thing having "rogue" airport-immigration in a country's capital-city, such that this information would be needed to avoid it - as if in a war-zone or something.

 

If in PP, I would take a bus to Battambang and a taxi to Ban Laem, or fly to a "close to Thailand" city and cross by any land-border other than Poipet/Aranyaprathet, as suggested above.

Edited March 23, 2019 by JackThompson

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

This was exactly the error made by the OP at DM - he thought he could clear immigration at the destination-airport.  I do not know of a chart or similar that states this information. 

 

It is an odd thing having "rogue" airport-immigration in a country's capital-city, such that this information would be needed to avoid it - as if in a war-zone or something.

 

If in PP, I would take a bus to Battambang and a taxi to Ban Laem, or fly to a "close to Thailand" city and cross by any land-border other than Poipet/Aranyaprathet, as suggested above.

 

I just mentioned the flying back notion because it had been discussed earlier in the thread. But when I thought about it, and checked the flight schedules, I couldn't quite see how that would work in terms of reliably avoiding BKK Immigration.

 

Perhaps there are some other Asian Country to non BKK city flight connections that are direct flights into Thailand.  But PP-CM doesn't seem to be one of them.

[Handmade]

Once I nearly got deported too . Even I am married with Thai wife . Custom asked me why I am always here i CNX . Same thing  went to the office . A higher rank lady asked me why I am always in and out of thai ? I explained that my Wife is here etc etc ... she let me in this time But I need to apply for Married Visa . Which I am holding that visa now . It's nothing to do with $$$$ . 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I have no great expertise at avoiding BKK Immigration. Any idea how anyone would know whether any particular airline connecting flight into Thailand is going to require you to go thru Immigration in BKK vs. having you do it at your end arrival city?

It does take some research.

The first rule is that, unless your final destination is an international airport (easily checked via Wikipedia) you will definitely need to clear immigration and customs in Bangkok.

Next, you must check the services provided by your airline. As explained in https://www.airasia.com/my/en/our-connections/connecting-flights.page, Air Asia provides fly-thru service through Don Muang. This should usually mean that using Air Asia to fly via Don Muang to an international airport in Thailand using Air Asia for both flights should allow clearing immigration at your destination.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was looking at it from a different perspective, i.e., non-stop flights from nearby international cities into Thailand that don't go to either Swampy or DMK... Have found a few so far that might pertain to the Plan B discussion:

 

 

 

 

Westerners at least get a 90 day visa exempt entry into Malaysia, right? So that would be an easy place to fly into and then return from, if you could persuade Thai Immigration to let you get kicked out to there.

 

 

 

Not see any non-BKK nonstops from Vientiane or Macao or Penang into Thailand outside of BKK. Don't see any direct intl flights in/out of Udon Thani.

 

This looks like it might be the best of bad options if you had to come back from Phnom Penh to Thailand while avoiding BKK:

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

48 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This should usually mean that using Air Asia to fly via Don Muang to an international airport in Thailand using Air Asia for both flights should allow clearing immigration at your destination

 

Except, the AirAsia website you pointed to contained the following advisory circled below:

 

 

When they say "domestic connections", I presume that means to other Thai airports, regardless of whether those other Thai airports are classed as domestic or international.  If so, that would seem to rule out the fly thru idea you mentioned above.

 

 

[BritTim]

There are flights into Chiang Mai from many overseas airports. There are also flights from China and Hong Kong direct into Chiang Rai. Never having flown in there, I have no idea whether it would be a good place to enter.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

There are flights into Chiang Mai from many overseas airports. There are also flights from China and Hong Kong direct into Chiang Rai. Never having flown in there, I have no idea whether it would be a good place to enter.

 

Ya, I listed some into CM above, but a lot of those CM flights are coming from China or Korea and other relatively far away and time consuming places. I was looking for closer, easier direct connections...

 

For BKK folks, the Air Asia KUL to UTP nonstop would seem ideal....