Big Joke: Promises easier, faster and more "watertight" Immigration rules

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[totally thaied up]

16 hours ago, malibukid said:

i have said this before.  Thailand is pivoting towards China. the new Chinese middle class is what they are after.  

I am actually starting to believe this. During my bag drop off at the airport, I saw very few foreigners and the three hours I waited, I generally only saw Chinese tourists. China and there newly founded middle class is the future. 

 

My wife and I are trailing some time in Australia now and we both like it very much but the pull her elderly family has for her to stay in country is great. After they pass on, we could move but my wife is adamant that I should have some rights in Thailand as well but she can see they will never eventuate due to the feelings of a Nationalist Government that is in so many ways now ‘slightly’ xenophobic. I have seen the change now over ten years and if they placed too high a bond system for those of us married and supporting our families, I would most likely leave Thailand as certainly under this current Governing body is not proven and the goal posts in recent times have moved enough to become a worry.

 

I love Thailand but not enough to put too much skin into the game.

 

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

love Thailand but not enough to put too much skin into the game.

I dare to write :

Like the gross of us. 

 

The  difference between us being that each of us has a different perspective of what is "too much". 

[The Deerhunter]

18 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I always thought it was funny that I could go to the US embassy write any nonsense on a piece of paper and they would notarize it.

 

For a hefty fee of course

And here hangeth the answer.  Immigration got fed up with probably shonky Statutory declarations.  I dont blame them but were there better options?

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

Actually you are 100% wrong. I'm a China expat. Every THREE years, I get a medical for 333 yuan (c1660THB), show my police registration (compulsorily renewed every time I re-enter the country) my wife's ID, my passport, my last entry stamp, my marriage book and my wife's family book and for 800 yuan (c3700THB, I get a three year residency permit.  That hasn't changed in seven years.

 

What China has done is made it increasingly difficult for unqualified charlatans to work in the ESL sector after several cases of child abuse by foreigners came to light and eliminate those working on tourist visas by stipulating that tourist visas can only be obtained outside China. Also ESL teachers can only be recruited in their home countries.

 

I don't see that protecting kids and their standard of education is a bad thing.

After three visits to China, I'm surprised any westerner would want to live there.

[totally thaied up]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

The  difference between us being that each of us has a different perspective of what is "too much". 

Too much for me would be burning all my money and bridges with family not to be able to return to my home country. I only have about 1.5 million baht invested in Thailand now and can get 400k of that back. I can walk away with very little loss but I know many that cannot go. 

 

I came home this time to mend all my bridges if Plan A turns to crap from the current Governments policy. At this stage I prefer my life in Thailand but with how things have been of late, being prepared with a Plan B is not a bad idea.

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, The Deerhunter said:

And here hangeth the answer.  Immigration got fed up with probably shonky Statutory declarations.  I dont blame them but were there better options?

I don't know. What are the Canadians, French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, and, I presume, Russians doing? It seems all the other letters are still being accepted.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

That's very close to what I friend, from the Korat immigration told us. The deposit numbers are correct, but they will become bonds payable to the Tax office, any income from investments considered as income tax.

Data capture and manipulation is at the stage where it would be easy for them to get us into the Thai tax system - a bond deposited with the tax authorities and only returnable if you are cleared as "all taxes up to date and paid' could well be coming. BJ has already said that Imm will be linked with tax system (WRT streamlining work visa issuance).

 

I don't think I want to stay badly enough fort that - masterfully Farangs leaving because they were asked to pay tax are not going to attract international sympathy.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

a Plan B is not a bad idea.

I also have a plan B,

in fact since I start to live here permanently (2000).

 

However I hope not to have  to fall back on, especially being 70+.

 

Therefore, I am prepare to endure a few more things. 

 

If younger I suppose my approach of things would be different. 

 

As many of us, but for unlike reasons. 

 

[CMNightRider]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I don't know. What are the Canadians, French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, and, I presume, Russians doing? It seems all the other letters are still being accepted.

I'm surprised the American Embassy hasn't seen the advantage of issuing income verification letters.  I suspect something nefarious is going on behind closed doors or maybe these people are just incompetent federal employees. ????  

[Kwasaki]

On 3/28/2019 at 8:56 AM, BritManToo said:

I'm more worried about the blatant racism Thailand shows towards white people.

Don't care what anyone else thinks, my main concern is what changes is the joker going to make about people who are married to Thais. 

It's a long enough performance already.

[sumrit]

14 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

18 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I always thought it was funny that I could go to the US embassy write any nonsense on a piece of paper and they would notarize it.

 

For a hefty fee of course

And here hangeth the answer.  Immigration got fed up with probably shonky Statutory declarations.  I dont blame them but were there better options?

I don't see a lot wrong with the basics of the new system. With the number of false notarized declarations presented to IM in the past, coupled with the amount of illegal working, etc that's gone, Thailand are entitled to ask that people living here show they have the money here in Thailand to do so. And they've set the bar at 65/40k baht pm. This system certainly closes a lot of the previous loopholes.

 

The main fault I see for some is the inflexibility of needing to show that minimum amount each and every month, regardless of whether you're in Thailand all the time or not. If you're only here for, say nine months, you should only have to show those same nine months transfers.

 

12 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I don't know. What are the Canadians, French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, and, I presume, Russians doing? It seems all the other letters are still being accepted.

I can see people from these countries having to show the monthly transfers from their own countries coming into a Thai bank in the future in the same way as we do now.  

[The Deerhunter]

32 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I don't know. What are the Canadians, French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, and, I presume, Russians doing? It seems all the other letters are still being accepted.

I am  certain that they really only want to see embassy income letters that state your income is from pensions.   I guess that as usual the local offices are deciding how they police that detail.   A friend went through a different T.I. office with an embassy letter which stated his income was "from pensions" but not a murmur.

I certainly had issues 2 weeks ago when I extended.  Several group huddles were necessary before reluctantly doing my extension.  Why???  Because my embassy asked where my income came from and then wrote "from pension and investments" on my letter.  Immigration even asked if I had also an 800k Thai bank letter and I said no.   I was fully expecting this response since the first time I looked at the letter my embassy gave me.   And that is exactly the reason why I did it a month early so I had time to pursue other options.  As far as I know home visits are not and never have been required for retirement extensions.  But this time they gave me the extension but will send someone to do a home visit and inspect my passbook to see the money I have been bringing in.  Have not seen him yet but expect to.

[Dah fahrang]

I wonder? Might the "Thai Immgration chief" have been looking around? Are "we" moving towards this?

http://www.retireinasia.com/visa-requirements-to-retire-in-malaysia/

then this

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Malaysia/Malaysia-Guide/Visas-Permits/Permanent-residence-in-Malaysia

and finally, this

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/home/programme/about-mm2h-programme

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Don't care what anyone else thinks, my main concern is what changes is the joker going to make about people who are married to Thais. 

It's a long enough performance already.

I agree with another post that says we whities are "tolerated" but citizens of neighbouring countries are treated as sub-human and those with dark skin with absolute "criminal" suspicion.  (decide for your self who the word "criminal" applies to.)

[Monkeyrobot]

I only have 8 fingers, how will I pass the 10 fingerprint test? I might give  the IM the 5 finger exploding palm technique like in Kill Bill. 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Dah fahrang said:

I wonder? Might the "Thai Immgration chief" have been looking around? Are "we" moving towards this?

http://www.retireinasia.com/visa-requirements-to-retire-in-malaysia/

then this

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Malaysia/Malaysia-Guide/Visas-Permits/Permanent-residence-in-Malaysia

and finally, this

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/home/programme/about-mm2h-programme

 

 

try Indonesia - new regs specifies that you have to employ staff, rent a minimum monthly rent property + other BS. Uptake has been "slow" for some reason.

[The Deerhunter]

7 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I don't see a lot wrong with the basics of the new system. With the number of false notarized declarations presented to IM in the past, coupled with the amount of illegal working, etc that's gone, Thailand are entitled to ask that people living here show they have the money here in Thailand to do so. And they've set the bar at 65/40k baht pm. This system certainly closes a lot of the previous loopholes.

 

The main fault I see for some is the inflexibility of needing to show that minimum amount each and every month, regardless of whether you're in Thailand all the time or not. If you're only here for, say nine months, you should only have to show those same nine months transfers.

 

I can see people from these countries having to show the monthly transfers from their own countries coming into a Thai bank in the future in the same way as we do now.  

I also remember seeing that for first time part-year applicants, part year deposits will be accepted for that first year - only!

 

But if your embassy stat dec letter says you have the requisite 65k / 40k income, solely from "PENSIONS" you will be ok in most T.I. offices.   Thats the way I read it last year and exactly how it played out for me 2 weeks ago.

[Khaeng Mak]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

To me, it is unfortunate not that I have my views but rather that the country is such dump culturally. 

 

As for the financial requirements, they would be small for me and for many, but I respect that they are not insignificant for all. Nobody is immune to financial misfortune from life's tests: failed western marriages, dependent children, dependent parents, careers impacted by unpredictable global events, sickness, etc. 

 

What many are complaining about is not the standards but things like 

 

1. The seemingly shifting sand under their feet resulting from Thai inexplicable changes in policy

 

2. The vagueness with which Thais communicate the policies 

 

3. The haphazard Thai enforcement of policies 

 

4. The lack of sufficient thought as to roadmaping new policy (such as thinking about what happens to people currently under a different policy regime) 

 

It is mostly UNCERTAINTY that many fear

 

I fear nothing.

I have strong self esteem.

I am entirely self made and law abiding.

I am not scared.

I am angry because narcissistic, incompetent and corrupt monkeys treat me like I am a criminal.

[baansgr]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:27 AM, LarryB said:

I would really just like to know why South Africans in particular have become a problem for Thai immigration. 

many work illegally as teachers

[zydeco]

2 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

But if your embassy stat dec letter says you have the requisite 65k / 40k income, solely from "PENSIONS" you will be ok in most T.I. offices.

If that is the case, then I can easily see where the UK and Australia can remedy their letters, probably leaving us Americans as the only ones undergoing microscopic investigation from immigration.

[Khaeng Mak]

6 minutes ago, mokwit said:

try Indonesia - new regs specifies that you have to employ staff, rent a minimum monthly rent property + other BS. Uptake has been "slow" for some reason.

Expats married to an Indonesian woman get a 25 year visa. Newly introduced scheme just a few years back. 

[mokwit]

Just now, Khaeng Mak said:

Expats married to an Indonesian woman get a 25 year visa. Newly introduced scheme just a few years back. 

Should have specified this was for retirement.

[The Deerhunter]

5 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

I fear nothing.

I have strong self esteem.

I am entirely self made and law abiding.

I am not scared.

I am angry because narcissistic, incompetent and corrupt monkeys treat me like I am a criminal.

Luck you!  For many expats it is now becoming a mine-field.

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Expats married to an Indonesian woman get a 25 year visa. Newly introduced scheme just a few years back. 

I wonder how many sham marriages they have there now?

[Khaeng Mak]

Lots of young white south africans currently working in Thailand.  Why? Because the pathetic wage they can earn here is still more than they can make back in SA.  Due to the black control in government and its black rights policy there is now little to no opportunity for white south african youth.  And absolutely zero chance to purchase property.  The white south african kids here in Thailand are basically economic refugees, but they cant get any help in developed western countries because they are not black or muslim.

[Sticky Wicket]

2 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Lots of young white south africans currently working in Thailand.  Why? Because the pathetic wage they can earn here is still more than they can make back in SA.  Due to the black control in government and its black rights policy there is now little to no opportunity for white south african youth.  And absolutely zero chance to purchase property.  The white south african kids here in Thailand are basically economic refugees, but they cant get any help in developed western countries because they are not black or muslim.

Plus the rand has been really weak for years 

[Lovethailandelite]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

@Lovethailandelite mentioned in post #102 he was to get the lowdown on this yesterday afternoon, no updates as yet.

 

"I am in a scramble for an early lunch due to a briefing later this afternoon regarding the Police orders over the songKran period."

I think you misunderstood. The meeting had nothing to do with this topic.
There should of been an announcement regarding the police orders about the alcohol sales ban called for over the SongKran holiday. That appears to of manifested from a one day ban on the 13th April too a complete ban over the whole of the period due to SongKran being celebrated on different days in different provinces/towns. Nothing was decided as those making the decision have been unavailable due to other, more important things.The media seems to be running with the story today.
I have no more information or indeed a date for any further update.

[Thaidream]

While I am really quite tired of Thai Immigration continually changing the goal posts; different office having different policies and an imposition of constant reporting our whereabouts- I thought it might be interesting to compare Thailand's requirements to the US.

 

In Order to obtain a 'marriage visa' to the US- one needs to have a verified income of just over $21,000.  The average income  of an American is $58,000.    

 

In order to obtain a marriage visa in Thailand the male spouse must have the equivalent of 400,000 Thai Baht ($12,700)  in a Thai bank or  a monthly income of  40,000 Thai Baht for 12 months which is 480.000 Baht ($15.240)/   The average income of a Thai is $6,000.

 

In the US there will be no  90 day reporting to Immigration and the  admitted spouse has all the rights and benefits of the citizen.

 

In Thailand- an admitted spouse has to file proof of address; then refile each time they leave the country and return plus do a report to Immigration every 90 days.

 

Regarding a tourist who enters the US- they must show proof of having sufficient income to stay in the US for the period of their visit which includes proof of income.

If a tourist to the US overstays their Visa by less than 180 days- they are not blacklisted; they are not fined and can return with a new visa at anytime.

 

A tourist who enters Thailand needs only 10,000 or 20,000 Baht for their stay.  If they overstay for even 1 day and are caught they are blacklisted for 5 years.  In addition, they are charged 500 Baht per day.  Even if they turn themselves in and have overstayed  90 days or more- they pay the 500 baht per day fine up to 20K  plus are banned for 1 year up to 5.

 

For Thailand to even consider raising the amounts  for retirement or marriage shows a complete lack of understanding of the demographics;  the rights of  non citizens to marry and be accorded fair treatment under the  United nations  

 

If Thailand wants to rid the country of potential criminal aliens- it needs to concentrate on  those who enter Visa Free or with VOA.   These are the people who will overstay; come in quickly-rob a bank or steal from an ATM or set up a boiler room.

 

I would do the following-

 

1.  Stop free Visa entry to those countries that show an above  average level of  citizens involved in crime.

2.  Increase the level of funding needed to enter for certain countries that have many overstays or engaged in business scams.

3. Start regulating businesses  that are run by foreigners using fake nominees/

4. Reform the use of agents

5. Make IO's follow the actual published rules and stop  allowing them to make up their own rules.

6. Hire moire Immigration agents who are completely trained in the latest  techniques of AI and  understand how to quickly cross reference databases.

 

IMO the foreigners that are hardly ever involved in crime of any type are the retired and those who are married to Thais.  They do not fit the profile at all and are generally going about their business and respectful of Thai people and the law. As such, it's time for  those in power to stop  treating everyone as a potential criminal.

[Lovethailandelite]

4 hours ago, Prairieboy said:

A timely submittal by the watchman would be appreciated!  555

 

IMHO the country is in limbo with no legitimate government therefore how can they be enacting laws.  Any new laws should be deferred until such time as the new legally elected government takes over the reins.

The country has a perfectly legitimate working government. They are absolutely 100% not in limbo. You really shouldn't listen to internet and media talk.