Owning a Ducati...

[thaiguzzi]

On 4/7/2019 at 8:35 AM, jackdd said:

if you plan to make extended trips with it it might become uncomfortable (but a naked bike like a scrambler isn't made for extended trips anyway).

English guy called Henry Crew might disagree with you.

He's just got back as the youngest man to circumnavigate the world, a total of 55,000 miles (that's 88,000 kms in new money) in 2 years on a.... wait for it.... Ducati Desert Sled.

Put that up your pipe and smoke it.

 

I dunno what it is with some people and some of the press.

A bike is a bike is a bike.

You don't need a BMW GS1200 to go long distance. You don't need a BMW GS850 to go off on a sandy, gravel road.

All this specialist certain bike for certain conditions is a load of old <deleted>.

Lets admit it, most GS1250's never see a hint of dust, it's an image bike as much as an HD is an image bike for a different set of wealthy type set customers for different factories

Back in the day, your Mon-Fri ride to work bike took you to places away from your commute schedule at weekends, once a year took you and the wife on holiday somewhere far away, and in some cases, with a change of tyres and sprockets and taping up the headlight glass, took you clubmans racing. On or off road.

On a 30 bhp BSA twin...

 

Back on topic.

I'm a big Monster fan, and being 193 cms / 6'3" tall, the current 797 i tested was too small for me as were the stock 803cc Scramblers. The 1100's fit me much better as does the Desert Sled which is a completely different chassis to a stock Scrambler and a bike i personally loved on a test ride. Different gearing to the A/C Monster range.

And again, the 797 cannot be compared to an 821 as air and liquid cooled motors are completely different, not only in heat dissipation, but in how and where they make their power.

 

Pictorial evidence of 6'3" TG test riding a DS;

 

 

 

 

 

[Denim]

7 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

dunno what it is with some people and some of the press.

A bike is a bike is a bike.

You don't need a BMW GS1200 to go long distance. You don't need a BMW GS850 to go off on a sandy, gravel road.

All this specialist certain bike for certain conditions is a load of old <deleted>.

 Agreed. One of the most enjoyable long distance vlogs is by this guy :

 

 

 

[eisfeld]

18 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

A bike is a bike is a bike.

You don't need a BMW GS1200 to go long distance. You don't need a BMW GS850 to go off on a sandy, gravel road. 

All this specialist certain bike for certain conditions is a load of old <deleted>.

Happy RTW tour on a Panigale V4 ????

 

It's not that it's impossible, it's just a bit impractical. Different people have different levels of requirements, great that there are so many different bikes to cater to them.

 

Could I do a 300km trip on the Scrambler 800? Yes but it would be plenty painful unless I had some kind of upgrade to the seat and suspension. The Desert Sled might be a much much better fit though.

[jackdd]

38 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

English guy called Henry Crew might disagree with you.

He's just got back as the youngest man to circumnavigate the world, a total of 55,000 miles (that's 88,000 kms in new money) in 2 years on a.... wait for it.... Ducati Desert Sled.

Put that up your pipe and smoke it.

I think he would agree with me. I just said it's uncomfortable, not that it's impossible. A few years ago i read about somebody making a world tour on a CBR600RR.

Actually your numbers just prove this point. 2 years, 88,000 kms, so in average just 120km per day. Probably his ass and back hurt too much to drive longer than 1-2 hours a day ????

 

45 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

A bike is a bike is a bike.

But there are just bikes which are suited better for certain purposes than other bikes and thus provide more fun.

Covering long distances is just not a strength of a scrambler.

[thaiguzzi]

38 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I think he would agree with me. I just said it's uncomfortable, not that it's impossible. A few years ago i read about somebody making a world tour on a CBR600RR.

Actually your numbers just prove this point. 2 years, 88,000 kms, so in average just 120km per day. Probably his ass and back hurt too much to drive longer than 1-2 hours a day ????

 

But there are just bikes which are suited better for certain purposes than other bikes and thus provide more fun.

Covering long distances is just not a strength of a scrambler.

# Watch a vid of his trip. He's not just nipping down to the shops.

  Before criticizing his mileage and time span, when was the last time you did 44k kms in a year?

# I did trips on an RD350 round the UK as a lad.

   Several trips Norwich to Munich & back on a Triumph T140.

   Several trips to central & Southern Italy via the Alps on modified Guzzi's & Harleys.

 

None of the above were classed as touring bikes, nor did any have such ridiculous stuff as a windshield or heated grips.

 

Sure bikes are built for a purpose, does'nt stop people riding CRF 250's or Himalayans round the world.

I would further disagree and say a Desert Sled is a pretty good all round RTW base to start with, as is an XSR700 with 60/40 tyres and a low weight Triumph Scrambler, suitably modified. IMO preferable to a GS1200 with all the bells & whistles.

It aint the destination, it's the journey. Man.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Could I do a 300km trip on the Scrambler 800?

Jeez.

I've done that on a clapped out KoLao copy Wave in Laos.

In my youth i've done 200 kms more than that in a day on a rigid (no rear suspension) bike.

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Could I do a 300km trip on the Scrambler 800? Yes but it would be plenty painful unless I had some kind of upgrade to the seat and suspension.

Then modify the seat.

There is no rule that every motorcycle ever made, ever left a showroom floor has to stay stock and original.

99.5% of motorcycles ever made need some sort of personalization to suit the new owner/rider.

Hell, the first thing i've ever done to any m/c i've ever owned is rip bits off it or modify/customize it in some form or other.

[eisfeld]

44 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Jeez.

I've done that on a clapped out KoLao copy Wave in Laos.

In my youth i've done 200 kms more than that in a day on a rigid (no rear suspension) bike.

Then modify the seat.

There is no rule that every motorcycle ever made, ever left a showroom floor has to stay stock and original.

99.5% of motorcycles ever made need some sort of personalization to suit the new owner/rider.

Hell, the first thing i've ever done to any m/c i've ever owned is rip bits off it or modify/customize it in some form or other.

Sure, that's why I'd say I'd modify those things if I wanted to take that bike on a longer ride. I have my AT for those purposes which I think does it way better especially since I like to take my GF with me on those rides. If one only had that one bike then modifying it to make it better at that task is the way to go.

 

It always comes down to each persons requirements and tastes. What is doable for one guy is unthinkable for the other. Shrug ????

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

# Watch a vid of his trip. He's not just nipping down to the shops.

  Before criticizing his mileage and time span, when was the last time you did 44k kms in a year?

When was the last time i got sponsored riding a motorbike arround the world for a year or two?

I ride about 30k per year, while working, living, spending time with GF and so on. If somebody would pay me to ride motorbike for a year and blog about it, i would do more kilometers than he did, even on a Honda Wave. On an adventure bike probably twice as much.

[Denim]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Several trips Norwich to Munich & back on a Triumph T140.

 

Those were the days.

 

I used to ride my Triumph Daytona 500  20 miles to work at 6.00 am. Blasted down the empty A413 at 80 mph from Chesham to work at LHR,

 

On the way home I would sometimes be on the lookout for bits that had vibrated loose and fallen off.

 

 

Apologies to all for the digression

 

carry on.

 

 

[JaiLai]

On 5/9/2019 at 7:02 AM, eisfeld said:

Happy RTW tour on a Panigale V4 ????

 

It's not that it's impossible, it's just a bit impractical. Different people have different levels of requirements, great that there are so many different bikes to cater to them.

 

Could I do a 300km trip on the Scrambler 800? Yes but it would be plenty painful unless I had some kind of upgrade to the seat and suspension. The Desert Sled might be a much much better fit though.

I'd done multiple 1000-2000Km trips with the wife driving Scrambler, she's never complained of a sore arse ( not from sitting anyway - lol ).

 

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, JaiLai said:

I'd done multiple 1000-2000Km trips with the wife driving Scrambler, she's never complained of a sore arse ( not from sitting anyway - lol ).

 

Well your wife hopefully is not as big and has a fat ass like me, makes a difference ????

[richard_smith237]

Just tickling this thread back into life... 

 

A few months of deliberation and indecisiveness have amounted to nothing... no new bike, no wow moments until today.. 

 

I stopped off a A-Square in Bangkok and looked in at KTM - didn't like any of them which is quite strange because as a brand I really like KTM. 

 

Popped in at Harley, they're cool machines but I really not the style I'm after at all. 

 

I then stopped in a MotoGuzzi and saw something I really liked hanging on the wall (Yes, they had a motorbike hanging on the wall).. It was the Guzzi V7ii Racer...  I never got the chance to sit on it and check fit etc...  but I like the look, rather a lot. 

 

With the exception of this dealership being the only location in Thailand that sells and services Guzzi's (that I'm aware of, I live in Bkk anyway so thats no biggie) I'm wondering what the downsides of owning this model are... (its 550,000 baht)... 

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Just tickling this thread back into life... 

 

A few months of deliberation and indecisiveness have amounted to nothing... no new bike, no wow moments until today.. 

 

I stopped off a A-Square in Bangkok and looked in at KTM - didn't like any of them which is quite strange because as a brand I really like KTM. 

 

Popped in at Harley, they're cool machines but I really not the style I'm after at all. 

 

I then stopped in a MotoGuzzi and saw something I really liked hanging on the wall (Yes, they had a motorbike hanging on the wall).. It was the Guzzi V7ii Racer...  I never got the chance to sit on it and check fit etc...  but I like the look, rather a lot. 

 

With the exception of this dealership being the only location in Thailand that sells and services Guzzi's (that I'm aware of, I live in Bkk anyway so thats no biggie) I'm wondering what the downsides of owning this model are... (its 550,000 baht)... 

 

 

 

 

A man with taste.

God's motorcycles.

Although Moto Guzzi don't have the products nor the range they once had, they still make a couple of decent motorcycles.

The above bike is low bhp, hi torque, air cooled old skool pushrod motor with tappets and locknuts for valve adjustment (half hour job as opposed to half a day on some bikes), single FI throttle body so no synch req'd, and no electronics. In this day and age, about as simple as they come, so you don't even need a dealer if you are even half decent with the spanners.

Or bring it up to me for a service.

Only problem - is the price.

550k is ridiculous for one of these.

[guzzi850m2]

That Guzzi is a beauty.
Since you live in Bkk then you can pull into Starbucks and you will be the star[emoji23].
Shaftdrive is just so nice to have, no messy chain to maintain.
But agreed 550k baht is too much for what you get.
Did you see the new BMW cruiser they will launch next year? Now that is something special, 1800cc air-cooled boxer engine. Shaftdrive off-course but I bet the price will be very high, not sure it will even come to Thailand but we can hope.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Did you see the new BMW cruiser they will launch next year? Now that is something special, 1800cc air-cooled boxer engine. Shaftdrive off-course but I bet the price will be very high, not sure it will even come to Thailand but we can hope.

Yea that one is a celebration of machines. No visible wires etc, pure mechanics. In Thailand that thing will likely cost 1,5M or thereabout I'd guess. A good chunk more than the R90 for sure.

[jackdd]

On 5/31/2019 at 5:59 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I'm wondering what the downsides of owning this model are...

 

The downside is that you could instead buy a Triumph Thruxton, which at least from a technical perspective gives you way more bike (for example twice the power) and is the same style of bike, just lacking the fancy engine design.

[eisfeld]

jackdd: I'd say the Speed Twin would be a better alternative.

 

As nice and simple as the Guzzi is, for that money and considering the missing dealer network in Thailand... no thanks.

[thaiguzzi]

I'd have another look at some of the big bike dealers in BKK.

Air cooled, SSSA 796 Monsters, with low miles, DP kit fitted (Termis, filter & ECU), 4 y/o for 250-270k.

Mint. As new.

Plenty to choose from.

[richard_smith237]

19 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

I'd have another look at some of the big bike dealers in BKK.

Air cooled, SSSA 796 Monsters, with low miles, DP kit fitted (Termis, filter & ECU), 4 y/o for 250-270k.

Mint. As new.

Plenty to choose from.

 

In considering the Monsters, the 821 is the one I’d go for, in stealth trim.

 

I like the modern retro bike. The Ducati Scramble Cafer racer was the bike which kicked all this off, but it felt too small. I’d have to take another look at it in the skin. 

 

The Ducati Scramber 1100 is also rather nice, but I figured too much for Bangkok’s roads. 

 

Someone mentioned the Trumph Thruxton, a nice bike and one I’d considered, but while I like the retro bikes, the Thruxton is a little too classic for my tastes which is why the Guzzi stood out (on looks alone) modern classic.

 

The BMW RnineT is perhaps the one... but I can’t justify spending that much (1MB) on something I’m just going to mess around on.

[thaiguzzi]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

In considering the Monsters, the 821 is the one I’d go for, in stealth trim.

 

I like the modern retro bike. The Ducati Scramble Cafer racer was the bike which kicked all this off, but it felt too small. I’d have to take another look at it in the skin. 

 

The Ducati Scramber 1100 is also rather nice, but I figured too much for Bangkok’s roads. 

 

Someone mentioned the Trumph Thruxton, a nice bike and one I’d considered, but while I like the retro bikes, the Thruxton is a little too classic for my tastes which is why the Guzzi stood out (on looks alone) modern classic.

 

The BMW RnineT is perhaps the one... but I can’t justify spending that much (1MB) on something I’m just going to mess around on.

V7 Guzzi and the Ducati Scramblers, 797 Monsters are of similar size.

I have never found the liquid cooled modern Monsters attractive.

Far too busy in the engine dept. Hoses, radiators, bits'n'bobs everywhere... All a bit of an untidy mess.

The last of the attractive liquid cooled Monsters was the S4 about 12-15 years ago.

Ditto, the prettiest air cooled Monsters were the S2 line from the same period.

 

Again, some great S/H bargains out there if you want an 821.

[JaiLai]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

In considering the Monsters, the 821 is the one I’d go for, in stealth trim.

 

I like the modern retro bike. The Ducati Scramble Cafer racer was the bike which kicked all this off, but it felt too small. I’d have to take another look at it in the skin. 

 

The Ducati Scramber 1100 is also rather nice, but I figured too much for Bangkok’s roads. 

 

Someone mentioned the Trumph Thruxton, a nice bike and one I’d considered, but while I like the retro bikes, the Thruxton is a little too classic for my tastes which is why the Guzzi stood out (on looks alone) modern classic.

 

The BMW RnineT is perhaps the one... but I can’t justify spending that much (1MB) on something I’m just going to mess around on.

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347121495

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347257083

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-342719371

 

Very nice, all prices are negotiable, food for thought......

[thaiguzzi]

On 6/3/2019 at 4:51 PM, JaiLai said:

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347121495

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347257083

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-342719371

 

Very nice, all prices are negotiable, food for thought......

The only one of value in there with a realistic price is the 649k bike.

Wire spoked wheels an added bonus and added value.

The other two are over priced.

650k is a common S/H price for these bikes currently.

Lotsa bargains to be had from all the mainstream manufacturers (except Moto Guzzi and maybe HD).

The S/H market has really become viable the last couple of years, i would go as far to say almost a buyers market out there.

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

On 6/3/2019 at 4:51 PM, JaiLai said:

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347121495

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-347257083

 

https://www.kaidee.com/product-342719371

 

Very nice, all prices are negotiable, food for thought......

The only one of value in there with a realistic price is the 649k bike.

Wire spoked wheels an added bonus and added value.

The other two are over priced.

650k is a common S/H price for these bikes currently.

Lotsa bargains to be had from all the mainstream manufacturers (except Moto Guzzi and maybe HD).

The S/H market has really become viable the last couple of years, i would go as far to say almost a buyers market out there.

 

I like them all...  But the version with the spokes is the real higher spec RnineT with better suspension etc... the others are a scrambler model ...

 

The one I'd really like is the RnineT 719 version... 

 

See below... 

 

 

[JaiLai]

37 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

The only one of value in there with a realistic price is the 649k bike.

Wire spoked wheels an added bonus and added value.

The other two are over priced.

650k is a common S/H price for these bikes currently.

Lotsa bargains to be had from all the mainstream manufacturers (except Moto Guzzi and maybe HD).

The S/H market has really become viable the last couple of years, i would go as far to say almost a buyers market out there.

yep, totally agree, 2nd hand market has been improving over the last 5 years or so no doubt.

 

I won't buy new again, if you have the patience the deals are out there.

[eisfeld]

I've seen the red/blue 719 bike in the flesh last weekend. What a marvelous paint scheme! I'd prefer it without the numbers though.

 

And totally agree with thaiguzzi. The proper R90 is the one to go for, not the scramblers. Even at 4 years old I think there hasn't been a lot of changes to this model. The new price is ridicolous in Thailand 1.1M+ while in Germany I can get it for 530k (and usually able to negotiate down to say 500k). So nearly half the value lost in 4 years with just 800km? Ouch. BMWs don't hold their value in Thailand at all. Makes you think twice about buying new.

[guzzi850m2]

Well if you just need a bike to pop around on, I would get a Street Twin, preferable the new updated 2019 model, hard to find any bike more beautiful than that in my humble opinion.

 

I know eisfeld didn't like it so much but I found it okay when I tried one. Most testers are quite happy with it if you goggle around and check yourself.

 

Agreed about 2nd hand bikes are a steal now, as some of you guys likely know; I bought a 1 year old bike myself and saved a lot and got loads of upgrades with it too.

 

http://overdrive.in/car-roadtest/2019-triumph-street-twin-road-test-review/

 

 

[richard_smith237]

I'm reigniting this thread after a number of months of stagnant indecision... 

 

Nothing really 'popped out' at me... the Ducati Cafe racer continues to be a machine of desire, yet I just feel too large when sat on it (183cm tall and a solid 95kgs in weight), I put in an earlier comment 'like a circus bear on a mini-tricycle'...

 

The other options I'd looked at, the Ducati Scrambler 1100, Triumph Speed Twin & Triple, also the Thruxton, The Motoguzzi VII 7 racer - all within price range, but just didn't 'do enough for me'...  

And while BMW RnineT 719 did 'do enough for me' the wife probably wouldn't if I spent 1MB+ on a Motorbike!! (kidding of course, Wifey is a very cool cat, but I myself can't justify a 1MB spend on a Motorcycle).

 

And so, I've spent the past number of months looking but not really much more than that.... until a couple of days ago when things changed a little.... I've never been a 'Harley Davidson' type of person, in-fact I consider I'm somewhat the antithesis of the Harley Davidson, I find them crude, loud, outdated etc... until I saw the 1200cc Roadster, I really like it... 

 

I think it looks amazing....  I currently outside of Thailand at the moment, but will likely book a test ride etc when I'm back in a couple weeks. My thoughts for the moment are now back to  this discussion / topic, seeking advice, opinions and generally listening (reading) what those with far more experience than I have to say....  Cheers... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

I'd be looking at the Thruxton R if I was you. I was next to one at the lights on Wednesday evening and we both pulled away pretty quick (I was on my MT09) and that thing absolutely rips. Not sure of the torque figures but it must have a ton.

 

The looks are incredible too. Much better than in photos, the fit and finish looked superb. I'm seriously tempted.

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'd be looking at the Thruxton R if I was you. I was next to one at the lights on Wednesday evening and we both pulled away pretty quick (I was on my MT09) and that thing absolutely rips. Not sure of the torque figures but it must have a ton.

 

The looks are incredible too. Much better than in photos, the fit and finish looked superb. I'm seriously tempted.

It has the same engine as the Speed Twin which does have some nice poke. 97hp and 112Nm but fairly late at nearly 5k RPM. It's the "High Power" version of the engine. For a 1200cc it's not exactly amazing. Less than my Africa Twin if it had 20% more cc and that engine is just made to be durable heh. I wish the Triumph had something like 125hp and more torque down low. The weird thing for me was that the Speed Twin I tried in Thailand was really lethargic under 3k RPM while the exact same model in Germany did have oomph. Different mapping? The high humidity? No idea...

 

The Throxton looks sweet, no doubt. 70k more than the Speed Twin though. Gotta love the design to make it worth it I guess. Same price as the HD Roadster. For me the HD looks OK but not amazing.

 

Richard: have you thought about a second hand R nine-T? Or in general any of the models that you like as second hand. These bikes don't come with a lot of tech features and development is rather sloooow so you're not missing out much when taking a a few years old one if in good condition. The depreciation is bonkers.

[JonnyF]

39 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

It has the same engine as the Speed Twin which does have some nice poke. 97hp and 112Nm but fairly late at nearly 5k RPM. It's the "High Power" version of the engine. For a 1200cc it's not exactly amazing. Less than my Africa Twin if it had 20% more cc and that engine is just made to be durable heh. I wish the Triumph had something like 125hp and more torque down low. The weird thing for me was that the Speed Twin I tried in Thailand was really lethargic under 3k RPM while the exact same model in Germany did have oomph. Different mapping? The high humidity? No idea...

 

The Throxton looks sweet, no doubt. 70k more than the Speed Twin though. Gotta love the design to make it worth it I guess. Same price as the HD Roadster. For me the HD looks OK but not amazing.

 

Richard: have you thought about a second hand R nine-T? Or in general any of the models that you like as second hand. These bikes don't come with a lot of tech features and development is rather sloooow so you're not missing out much when taking a a few years old one if in good condition. The depreciation is bonkers.

Yeah 112nm is pretty decent though. That's about the same as the outgoing S1000RR but it makes it at half the RPM. I was just quite surprised because I'd always thought of these modern retros as being a bit showy without too much in the way of performance but this bike was really quick. Sounded good on stock pipes as well.