Do you believe in God and why

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I found it equally frustrating to talk to atheists (less so agnostics) and religious people, because they're both stuck in a rut. One claims that science has the ultimate truth and if something can not be explained through it, then it must be fairy tales. The other claims his holy book contains everything you need to know and if you don't believe it, then eternal damnation is waiting for you.
Both worldviews are at seemingly opposite places of the spectrum, yet both are equally restrictive and exclusive.

I don't want to start arguing about what caused more deaths, but I'd like to remind you that atheist governments like in China and Russia have had their fair share in bloodshed.

Yes  but  one of them can verify what it says and reproduce it......the other?

[transam]

221B Baker Street to this day gets mail inquiries...

[notmyself]

23 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Nothing without evidence yet you want to "believe", in which case with no evidence anything I say should be as  valid to you. This means with no evidence you have to accept everything anyone says no  matter how crazy.

 

This the problem. Everything has to be accepted at equal value resulting in what could be described as white noise.

 

 

To make matters worse one is forced to accept 'things' that are contradictory such as in the god concept.

[transam]

20 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Yes, only athiests have brains. I forgot. Hey could you explain to me where the universe came from? you have a brain

Think he means he hasn't been brainwashed....Same as me, even after years of school religious instruction lessons....????

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

This the problem. Everything has to be accepted at equal value resulting in what could be described as white noise. To make matters worse one is forced to accept 'things' that are contradictory such as in the god concept.

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

[notmyself]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

 

Tried to? Every day.

[mauGR1]

Just now, notmyself said:

 

Tried to? Every day.

Come on, don't tell me that you're living in a convent ????

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

Had to go to my mothers funeral and give a speech. 

 

Then there was my wedding.  And that incident with Father Brian.  

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Had to go to my mothers funeral and give a speech. 

Good man, i did exactly the same 3 years ago, but i cannot say that i was forced, it was just the right thing to do.

[notmyself]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Think he means he hasn't been brainwashed....Same as me, even after years of school religious instruction lessons....????

 

Strange that the god believed is almost always the same as the god believed by parents and/or culture one is raised in.

 

[marcusarelus]

44 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Good man, i did exactly the same 3 years ago, but i cannot say that i was forced, it was just the right thing to do.

Social pressure from my family is a potent force. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Strange that the god believed is almost always the same as the god believed by parents and/or culture one is raised in.

 

How about Russia and China? Two of the largest countries in the world.  Hard to ignore eh?

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Social pressure from my family is a potent force. 

It's the same for most who have a family, but having no family at all is probably worse.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

 

Tried to? Every day.

Yeah, I could barely leave the house due to the hordes of monks who would descend upon me with amulets and force me to screech chant in Pali....

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

Excuse me? I was sent to Sunday School so my parents could have a shag in my absence. Then in college ( scholarship ) had the Presbyterian version thrust on me every morning. Religious studies were a compulsory part of the curriculum. It's a wonder I emerged with my sanity intact.

[Elad]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

 

This the problem. Everything has to be accepted at equal value resulting in what could be described as white noise.

 

 

 

Some of that white noise we see between TV stations is evidence of when the first atoms formed in the universe, the CMBR. ???? 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Excuse me? I was sent to Sunday School so my parents could have a shag in my absence. Then in college ( scholarship ) had the Presbyterian version thrust on me every morning. Religious studies were a compulsory part of the curriculum. It's a wonder I emerged with my sanity intact.

Feel sorry for you, we used to have 1 hour of religion at high school, and nobody cared.

I remember a religion teacher running away in tears.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

If we equate ideology with religion, well plenty have gone to war and died in the name of some ideology.

Atheists can be obtuse too.

Fair enough. The Communist ideology resulted in the Holodomor in the Ukraine. Can't argue with that.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Feel sorry for you, we used to have 1 hour of religion at high school, and nobody cared.

I remember a religion teacher running away in tears.

I consider I triumphed, so no need to feel sorry for me. But thanks anyway.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

It was not the chicken per se but rather the method/ recipe. One chef follows the recipe while the other does not so which one is the radical chef? It is the so called moderates that are taking their holy book al a carte, picking and choosing the bits they like while discarding the bits they don't which is why I'm with Creationists and such in the sense that they are at least being logically coherent. 

 

 

 

 

The extremists in Islam do exactly the same thing, picking the the bits they like. Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran.

Creationists and intelligent design IMHO are a pathetic attempt to accommodate evolution while simultaneously trying  to shove it under the carpet.

[Nyezhov]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Creationists and intelligent design IMHO are a pathetic attempt to accommodate evolution while simultaneously trying  to shove it under the carpet.

I encourage such diversity of intellectual thought among my creations. Even stupidity taken to the nth degree involves higher thought processes. Look at conspiracy theories, those loonbags are like novelists.

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Feel sorry for you, we used to have 1 hour of religion at high school, and nobody cared.

I remember a religion teacher running away in tears.

I can remember our chaplain being questioned rather rigorously on the subject of celibacy before marriage. Nice man, but out of his depth. I kept quiet and enjoyed the show.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I encourage such diversity of intellectual thought among my creations. Even stupidity taken to the nth degree involves higher thought processes. Look at conspiracy theories, those loonbags are like novelists.

Tbh, i'd rather believe the tale of the Virgin Mary, rather than anything our governments say

[OmegaRacer]

2 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Yes  but  one of them can verify what it says and reproduce it......the other?

Scientists to this day, use the best and finest instruments at their disposal to understand the universe, but they can only go as far as making educated guesses. Or are you happy with the Big Bang explanation? The theory tries to describe something, but it doesn't really explain how everything came out of nothing. 
When I was young, I learned that matter was made of atoms, atoms made of electrons, neutrons, protons and the smaller particles where just being discovered. After that, even smaller particles were discovered. Now it seams that everything is in a state of flux, quantuum physics says that there is entanglement among particles, meaning 2 entangled particles can instantly affect each other even if they are on the opposite sides of the universe. 
This to show that science evolves and with it the understanding we have of the universe.
People look back at the dark ages and deride the geocentric worldview, yet treat science as the ultimate holder of truth now, as if we have reached a point where everything has been explained. Far from it.
So you still need a good dose of belief in what others tell you.

Has science explained the rising of the kundalini for example? It's the force/energy that resides at the base of the spine and can be released through meditation, or a strong trauma or psychotropic substances.
No it hasn't. Yet this energy has been described for thousands of years in India and is as real as it gets.

Science draws maps of the outer world.

Zen, all the different types of Yoga, contemplative meditation, shamanism etc, have drawn maps of the inner worlds. 
Just like the experiments in science, the stages of development one passes when meditating, are repeatable over time and different individuals, and the experience gained can be scrutinized by those who have walked the path before them (peer review). 

One is not better than the other, both hold a piece of the puzzle and both should work together instead of being divided.
 

[notmyself]

34 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The extremists in Islam do exactly the same thing, picking the the bits they like. Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran.

Creationists and intelligent design IMHO are a pathetic attempt to accommodate evolution while simultaneously trying  to shove it under the carpet.

 

For a few things sure but for the most part both their actions are divinely mandated or asserted. The whole lot are bat**** crazy  but I cant accuse them of being dishonest. That being said, we are fortunate that the vast majority don't take the word of their particular god seriously. 

 

 

 

[notmyself]

49 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Tbh, i'd rather believe the tale of the Virgin Mary, rather than anything our governments say

 

Interestingly the virgin birth was added much later so as to appeal to greater numbers. At that time any religion worth its salt included a virgin birth.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Interestingly the virgin birth was added much later so as to appeal to greater numbers. At that time any religion worth its salt included a virgin birth.

It's quite likely that the ones in charge have told ( and are telling ) a lot of lies.

[Pattayabeerbacon]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:31 PM, CharlieH said:

No offence to those that do,  but for me, its just  "an invisible friend for adults".

Sounds like a kinky Soi 6 extra.

[Date Masamune]

Scientists to this day, use the best and finest instruments at their disposal to understand the universe, but they can only go as far as making educated guesses. Or are you happy with the Big Bang explanation? The theory tries to describe something, but it doesn't really explain how everything came out of nothing. 

When I was young, I learned that matter was made of atoms, atoms made of electrons, neutrons, protons and the smaller particles where just being discovered. After that, even smaller particles were discovered. Now it seams that everything is in a state of flux, quantuum physics says that there is entanglement among particles, meaning 2 entangled particles can instantly affect each other even if they are on the opposite sides of the universe. 

This to show that science evolves and with it the understanding we have of the universe.

People look back at the dark ages and deride the geocentric worldview, yet treat science as the ultimate holder of truth now, as if we have reached a point where everything has been explained. Far from it.

So you still need a good dose of belief in what others tell you.

 

Has science explained the rising of the kundalini for example? It's the force/energy that resides at the base of the spine and can be released through meditation, or a strong trauma or psychotropic substances.

No it hasn't. Yet this energy has been described for thousands of years in India and is as real as it gets.

 

Science draws maps of the outer world.

Zen, all the different types of Yoga, contemplative meditation, shamanism etc, have drawn maps of the inner worlds. 

Just like the experiments in science, the stages of development one passes when meditating, are repeatable over time and different individuals, and the experience gained can be scrutinized by those who have walked the path before them (peer review). 

 

One is not better than the other, both hold a piece of the puzzle and both should work together instead of being divided.

 

A great post. best argument god believers have is old strawman. “There are complicated unexplained things so there must be a magic creator”.

Truth is not a single bit of evidence in all of human history has indicated the existence of any gods, Then they’ll give you another strawman “Well then it isn’t disproven either” You see, I don’t ask the question. Considering the existence of god is an indulgence of primitive people I don’t bother with. I see it has already been considered by Philosophers over thousands over years? Who do I think I am Plato, Pascal? People follow religions for social reasons and to fit in, most just taking up the sect where there parents are. Let’s just say Christianity is right and Islam is wrong. Go to Pakistan, millions and millions of innocent children born to go to Hell. All rubbish and utter tosh!

 

 

 

 

[OmegaRacer]

<sup>They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. 
We have personified God in our image. 

And to answer the post above. There is only one way to prove the existence of Spirit, but you have to do it on your own. You can't rely on a book or on a belief system (aka BS). Some people might steer you in the right direction, but it's you who has to make the first step, wrestle with your own shadow, peel the onion layers until you find who you truly are. Once you know that, you'll know what "God" is.</sup>

^{I honestly don't understand why so many people are content with "believing" when there are so many ways to "knowing". I guess it's just easier.}