Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

40 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

sunmaster, check this dude out.

you might find this interesting.

he's apparently using "scientific methodology". lol

 

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/who-we-are/history-of-dops/dr-ian-stevenson/

Dr. Ian Stevenson founded the Division of Perceptual Studies in 1967. 

Dr. Stevenson established the Division in order to conduct research in which scientific methodology is utilized to empirically investigate phenomena which cannot be explained by the currently accepted scientific assumptions and theories about the nature of mind or consciousness, and its relationship to matter. Examples of such phenomena, sometimes called paranormal, include various types of extrasensory perception (such as telepathy), apparitions and deathbed visions,  after-death communications or ADCs, poltergeists, experiences of persons who come close to death and survive (usually called near-death experiences or NDEs), out-of-body experiences (OBEs), and children’s memories of previous lives.

Yes, I read a book about him a long time ago. Good stuff.

[Elad]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:22 PM, Tippaporn said:

In your example you are using a friend who is receiving audio information from you, which would be slower than light.  Sound travels at a much slower speed than light.  Whilst technically correct . . . it takes time to receive communication, regardless, there is no such time lapse for you as you think the thought that you are then conveying to another.  So your thoughts are happening in the now.  And while, yes, it takes time to receive communication from another once that communication is received then the reception of is happening for the friend in his now.

If you were communicating via email, or a physical letter, then of course it takes time for the communication to be received by the recipient.  You, though, are typing the email or writing the letter in your now.  Once the communication is received then the recipient is reading it in his now.

Again, experience happens in the now moment point.  Never in the past or future.  The past is only the perception of experience moving in linear fashion from moment to moment.  If you have any other explanations which would contradict that and prove it to be wrong then I'm more than willing to hear and consider it.

If you're interested in learning more then read Seth's many explanations regarding time, what it is and our experience of it - how and why we experience it as such.  This he explains in great detail as time is an integral part of our physical experience.  As is space.  Both must be well understood for what they are in order for other information to make sense.  In the meanwhile you can't honestly claim Seth is wrong since 1) if you haven't read his explanations it would then be impossible to say he's wrong since you don't know what he's saying and 2) you can make the assumption that your ideas are correct but the possibility exists that they are not.  Once you become aware of Seth's ideas then you may well indeed find your ideas to be incorrect.  Perhaps not.  But it may well be a fatal error to dismiss that very real possibility.

For myself I don't care which answer is correct or incorrect but I will choose the one which is correct.  I will not, though, defend an idea which is incorrect for the sole reason of wanting to be right in what I believe to be true.  I make this point not to accuse you of trying to attempt to defend an incorrect idea.  But to simply make you aware that this is a pitfall which many unwittingly fall into.  One always needs to ask themselves whether this may be the case during an exchange of ideas.  For if one is arguing not for truth but merely to be right then one is only fooling themselves.  And if one is seeking true knowledge it will never, ever happen if one is not brutally honest with one's self.

I was being generous using light cause it gets even worse for sound ????

 

Since we're on the subject of seeing events I just want you to know that in physics there's a difference between 'seeing' and 'observing'. Seeing an event (like we just discussed) is when the light from that event reaches your eyes or scientific instrument, whereas observing an event is the exact time and place the event happened. So for example if I see the explosion of a distant star tonight that was 10 lightyears away, then I would report the time of the explosion as ten years ago.

 

In special relativity we are only interested in observing events NOT seeing events, so when we assign coordinates to events its when and where those events actually occurred in a particular reference frame. Just wanted to make that clear since its very important in understanding how time works in relativity.

 

There's a common misconception in SR which is 'moving clocks tick slowly' and although its true that you will observe a moving clock to run more slowly than your own, there's actually more to it than that and the relativity of simultaneity shows us that its time itself that changes from one frame to another where observers take different paths through spacetime.

 

 I'll try to explain using two reference frames. Imagine yourself (Tippaporn) on Earth and me (Elad) travelling at some speed V relative to you. Since speed is relative then I could say that I'm at rest, and you, on Earth, is travelling at speed V, it makes no difference in relativity. Due to this symmetry not only will you observe my clock running slow, but I will also observe your clock to be running slow, sounds like a paradox but its not when you take the relativity of simultaneity into account.

 

If you observe and assign coordinates to two events that occur simultaneous but at different locations in your frame, and remember this is observing so those events really do happen at the same time in your reference frame. Then in my frame, I will observe the same two events at different times lets say two seconds between each event. How can this be because if time was just slowing down then the two Events would still be simultaneous in any frame. Time changes on different paths through spacetime.

 

In SR when we do the transformations of coordinates from one reference frame to another, the math shows us that the time coordinate depends on the space coordinates, and space depends on time, there's a mixing of space and time into one spacetime and this is how the universe seems to work. The condition of two events being simultaneous is a relative one not an absolute one.

 

I'm finding it very hard getting this across, and I'm not the best science communicator ????but I hope it helps you to understand that time is not absolute, it make no sense to say "I wonder what aliens are doing right now in the Andromeda galaxy" because our now is not the same as theirs, if they exist.

 

I would've liked to add some 2D spacetime diagrams to illustrate better how it works but I'm not sure you'd appreciate them.

Instead of searching the thread would it be possible to send me a link on Seth's definition of time, I'd like to have a look at it.

 

      

[Sunmaster]

@Elad

 

https://nowdictation.com/q/Time/

[mauGR1]

Time and space are opinions, and depend very much on the point of view. 

Imagination can bend the physical point of view of linear time.

For example, if i imagine a straight segment connecting me to some star, that segment exists in no time, and

beyond any measurable length of time.

So, linear time is a product of a limited Imagination, but Imagination is unlimited. ????

I would ask @Sunmaster to repost the " disk diagram " of few days ago, perhaps some of the "science types" here might give it some though, instead of dismissing it as " woowoo" ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, KhunLA said:

And there's the spin, if it's good, God created, did it, if not, then it's something else, 'works in mysterious ways', and now, 'it's nature'.

 

Did not God create everything ?

 

Sounding like a movie script ... this scene I love, classic by Byrne, and @ 2:10, ????

 

Now you're making it up. I never said that God only makes good things- I said God made everything, which means good and bad.

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Time and space are opinions, and depend very much on the point of view. 

Imagination can bend the physical point of view of linear time.

For example, if i imagine a straight segment connecting me to some star, that segment exists in no time, and

beyond any measurable length of time.

So, linear time is a product of a limited Imagination, but Imagination is unlimited. ????

I would ask @Sunmaster to repost the " disk diagram " of few days ago, perhaps some of the "science types" here might give it some though, instead of dismissing it as " woowoo" ????

>>>repost<<<

 

I imagine a rotating disc, the "disc of creation". As we know, the edges of the disc will rotate much faster than the center. The closer we get to the center, the lower the speed. Imagining the center being close to infinite (say

1×10−a gazillion), makes time at that point close to zero (timeless/NOW). 

I also imagine there to be a slope, with the highest point in the center. That way, the center has a 360 degree view of the whole disc at all times. The closer you get to the edge, the less of the disc is visible to the observer.
 

An observer on the edge of the disc will experience time very differently from an observer on other points of the disc, closer to the center. For the observer on the edge, time seems to be linear, with a past, a present and a future, but for the observer closer to the center, those 3 points are observable and coexist all at the same time. 

This model explains the paradox Tippaporn was talking about. Time exists, is relative to the distance from the center, becomes less binding the closer we get to the center, and ceases to exist at the center.

So, where is God in this model? "God" is the center of the "disc of creation", all seeing, all knowing, timeless. But God is also the disc itself. There is nothing in creation that is not God. 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now you're making it up. I never said that God only makes good things- I said God made everything, which means good and bad.

It's becoming quite hilarious now.

Apparently some people believe obvious lies, then they realize that they've been believing a lie, and then accuse innocents and passersby for their misunderstandings. ????

 

 

[save the frogs]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I said God made everything, which means good and bad.

why would your God make bad things? to what end?

[save the frogs]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

instead of dismissing it as " woowoo"

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

why would your God make bad things? to what end?

God ideas are beyond your understanding, especially as you deny its existence. 

So a good starting point is accepting the possibility of God's existence. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

No probs, "woowoo" it's a funny word. 

Never fails to give me a smile ????

[KhunLA]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:14 PM, KhunLA said:

So you just believe, God basically started everything, and it now just runs on auto pilot, the good and the bad.

 

Do you believe in a heaven & hell (afterlife) ?

Do you believe in prayer, and being answered ?

If answered (saved from terminal illness), God's miracle ?

if not answered, 'works in mysterious ways' BS ?

 

If God created everything, who or what created God, or are we going with the 'always was, always will be' theory.  And there is no other or need to be, it's just is.

 

All of which, none can be proved or disproved. 

 

Just the Christian Bible is so wacked, you'd have to be total idiot to believe any of that.  No need to attempt to disprove that, it does that all by itself.

@thaibeachlovers

did you see or not this reply, or ignore ????

Curious what belief you have.

 

God created everything .. but what else 

 

Not making things up, but most Christians leave out the bad.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

why would your God make bad things? to what end?

I shouldn't have used "bad" or "good", as nothing God makes is either, except in our opinion. What God makes just "is". God didn't also allow cancer, God created insects and animals and fish that eat each other in horrible ways, God made volcanoes and droughts that kill every living thing, God made storms and wildfires and so on. If you want an example of destruction and death on a galactic scale, God made black holes that consume entire solar systems.

Good and bad are only emotions that humans use. Does a lion think it's "bad" to eat a zebra?

 

As to why God doesn't allow us to live in paradise and live on fruit, I'm sorry, but God hasn't as yet communicated with me as to why God does anything.

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

It's becoming quite hilarious now.

Apparently some people believe obvious lies, then they realize that they've been believing a lie, and then accuse innocents and passersby for their misunderstandings. ????

 

 

That depends on what else they believe.  TBL said God made everything .. but what does the mean, after making, does God oversee & decide things.

 

I asked, but think he missed or ignored it ????

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As to why God doesn't allow us to live in paradise and live on fruit, I'm sorry, but God hasn't as yet communicated with me as to why God does anything. 

I like the humbleness, how can we expect to understand God's designs in every single little detail? However i believe that we can try.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:14 PM, KhunLA said:

So you just believe, God basically started everything, and it now just runs on auto pilot, the good and the bad.

 

Do you believe in a heaven & hell (afterlife) ?

Do you believe in prayer, and being answered ?

If answered (saved from terminal illness), God's miracle ?

if not answered, 'works in mysterious ways' BS ?

 

If God created everything, who or what created God, or are we going with the 'always was, always will be' theory.  And there is no other or need to be, it's just is.

 

All of which, none can be proved or disproved. 

 

Just the Christian Bible is so wacked, you'd have to be total idiot to believe any of that.  No need to attempt to disprove that, it does that all by itself.

So you just believe, God basically started everything, and it now just runs on auto pilot, the good and the bad.

 

Yes.

 

Do you believe in a heaven & hell (afterlife) ?

Do you believe in prayer, and being answered ?

If answered (saved from terminal illness), God's miracle ?

if not answered, 'works in mysterious ways' BS ?

 

Neither. I believe we return to God after our body dies.

No

N/a

No such thing as mysterious ways- nature is what nature is.

 

If God created everything, who or what created God, or are we going with the 'always was, always will be' theory.  And there is no other or need to be, it's just is.

 

God doesn't converse with me so I have no idea, and yes it just is what it is

 

All of which, none can be proved or disproved. 

 

If it could be proven or disproven there would be no need for faith.

 

Just the Christian Bible is so wacked, you'd have to be total idiot to believe any of that.  No need to attempt to disprove that, it does that all by itself.

 

Why stop at the Christian Bible?

I don't put stock in the Bible per se, other than as a history book.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That depends on what else they believe.  TBL said God made everything .. but what does the mean, after making, does God oversee & decide things.

 

I asked, but think he missed or ignored it ????

I think @thaibeachlovers answered rather clearly to that question, which has been asked countless times...however, I'm not so arrogant to explain God's designs, beautiful or ugly, i can only try to understand, and it's quite a long way.

Imho, good and bad are 2 faces of the same medal, and on this planet we have to live with it, and try to be as good as we can.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

@thaibeachlovers

did you see or not this reply, or ignore ????

Curious what belief you have.

 

God created everything .. but what else 

 

Not making things up, but most Christians leave out the bad.

It may seem strange to you but I don't read every post on this thread, and I missed it.

Just for you I went back to it and answered your questions.

 

I'm not a Christian, though I value the Christ's teachings for a better personal life. If we all behaved as he preached we'd live in a better world.

[Sunmaster]

34 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

God made everything .. but what does the mean, after making, does God oversee & decide things.

TBL and I agree on many things, but this is still one point where we completely disagree.
He believes that the Godhead created the universe and everything in it and then left evolution to its own device. God is not interested in the affairs of mankind and doesn't care what you do with your life.

My belief is that we are part of this super-consciousness that some call God and that we have a direct access line to this consciousness. Such a consciousness is aware of everything within it. I also believe that one of the fundamental aspects of reality, the driving force of the universe or "God attribute" is love and that the universe is benevolent.

These 2 core beliefs create 2 very different scenarios:
With the first one, you set yourself apart from the Godhead. "God created me and the world, but now it's off somewhere doing its thing and doesn't care or know about me". This creates a tension, a dissonance, loneliness, separation.

The second one allows you to feel connected to the Godhead in a direct, personal and loving relationship. "I have nothing to fear because I know that every path ultimately leads to the One. "God" is alive within me and I'm alive within it, and we are ultimately one and the same thing."

Edited March 24, 2023 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That depends on what else they believe.  TBL said God made everything .. but what does the mean, after making, does God oversee & decide things.

 

I asked, but think he missed or ignored it ????

I missed it.

 

To be crystal clear, I don't think God oversees my life. I make my own decisions and my own mistakes. Do you think I believe God deliberately gave me cancer? I don't.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

TBL and I agree on many things, but this is still one point where we completely disagree.
He believes that the Godhead created the universe and everything in it and then left evolution to its own device. God is not interested in the affairs of mankind and doesn't care what you do with your life.

My belief is that we are part of this super-consciousness that some call God and that we have a direct access line to this consciousness. Such a consciousness is aware of everything within it. I also believe that one of the fundamental aspects of reality, the driving force of the universe or "God attribute" is love and that the universe is benevolent.

These 2 core beliefs create 2 very different scenarios:
With the first one, you set yourself apart from the Godhead. "God created me and the world, but now it's off somewhere doing its thing and doesn't care or know about me". This creates a tension, a dissonance, loneliness, separation.

The second one allows you to feel connected to the Godhead in a direct, personal and loving relationship. "I have nothing to fear because I know that every path ultimately leads to the One. "God" is alive within me and I'm alive within it, and we are ultimately one and the same thing."

I gave that a like.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

TBL and I agree on many things, but this is still one point where we completely disagree.
He believes that the Godhead created the universe and everything in it and then left evolution to its own device. God is not interested in the affairs of mankind and doesn't care what you do with your life.

My belief is that we are part of this super-consciousness that some call God and that we have a direct access line to this consciousness. Such a consciousness is aware of everything within it. I also believe that one of the fundamental aspects of reality, the driving force of the universe or "God attribute" is love and that the universe is benevolent.

These 2 core beliefs create 2 very different scenarios:
With the first one, you set yourself apart from the Godhead. "God created me and the world, but now it's off somewhere doing its thing and doesn't care or know about me". This creates a tension, a dissonance, loneliness, separation.

The second one allows you to feel connected to the Godhead in a direct, personal and loving relationship. "I have nothing to fear because I know that every path ultimately leads to the One. "God" is alive within me and I'm alive within it, and we are ultimately one and the same thing."

That's a very good description, and i fully agree. 

Of course one can ask countless questions, but it's down to every single being to understand the answers. 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think @thaibeachlovers answered rather clearly to that question, which has been asked countless times...however, I'm not so arrogant to explain God's designs, beautiful or ugly, i can only try to understand, and it's quite a long way.

Imho, good and bad are 2 faces of the same medal, and on this planet we have to live with it, and try to be as good as we can.

Thanks for that post. IMO correct.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you just believe, God basically started everything, and it now just runs on auto pilot, the good and the bad.

 

Yes.

 

Do you believe in a heaven & hell (afterlife) ?

Do you believe in prayer, and being answered ?

If answered (saved from terminal illness), God's miracle ?

if not answered, 'works in mysterious ways' BS ?

 

Neither. I believe we return to God after our body dies.

No

N/a

No such thing as mysterious ways- nature is what nature is.

 

If God created everything, who or what created God, or are we going with the 'always was, always will be' theory.  And there is no other or need to be, it's just is.

 

God doesn't converse with me so I have no idea, and yes it just is what it is

 

All of which, none can be proved or disproved. 

 

If it could be proven or disproven there would be no need for faith.

 

Just the Christian Bible is so wacked, you'd have to be total idiot to believe any of that.  No need to attempt to disprove that, it does that all by itself.

 

Why stop at the Christian Bible?

I don't put stock in the Bible per se, other than as a history book.

But then if everything is on auto pilot since the start you are the same as non-believers 99.9 per cent but for some reason you are convinced there is a god even though it has no actual interaction or judgement or moral guidance or any form of contact in your life. Maybe you believe in the amazingness of reality rather than god. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

TBL and I agree on many things, but this is still one point where we completely disagree.
He believes that the Godhead created the universe and everything in it and then left evolution to its own device. God is not interested in the affairs of mankind and doesn't care what you do with your life.

My belief is that we are part of this super-consciousness that some call God and that we have a direct access line to this consciousness. Such a consciousness is aware of everything within it. I also believe that one of the fundamental aspects of reality, the driving force of the universe or "God attribute" is love and that the universe is benevolent.

These 2 core beliefs create 2 very different scenarios:
With the first one, you set yourself apart from the Godhead. "God created me and the world, but now it's off somewhere doing its thing and doesn't care or know about me". This creates a tension, a dissonance, loneliness, separation.

The second one allows you to feel connected to the Godhead in a direct, personal and loving relationship. "I have nothing to fear because I know that every path ultimately leads to the One. "God" is alive within me and I'm alive within it, and we are ultimately one and the same thing."

In that case, God has a screwed up sense of humor, giving people/kids, even born with cancer.  

 

That's where I can't believe.   Aside from from everything else.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you just believe, God basically started everything, and it now just runs on auto pilot, the good and the bad.

 

Yes.

 

Do you believe in a heaven & hell (afterlife) ?

Do you believe in prayer, and being answered ?

If answered (saved from terminal illness), God's miracle ?

if not answered, 'works in mysterious ways' BS ?

 

Neither. I believe we return to God after our body dies.

No

N/a

No such thing as mysterious ways- nature is what nature is.

 

If God created everything, who or what created God, or are we going with the 'always was, always will be' theory.  And there is no other or need to be, it's just is.

 

God doesn't converse with me so I have no idea, and yes it just is what it is

 

All of which, none can be proved or disproved. 

 

If it could be proven or disproven there would be no need for faith.

 

Just the Christian Bible is so wacked, you'd have to be total idiot to believe any of that.  No need to attempt to disprove that, it does that all by itself.

 

Why stop at the Christian Bible?

I don't put stock in the Bible per se, other than as a history book.

Thanks

[Red Phoenix]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:50 PM, Tippaporn said:

Ever hear about mind over matter?  Well, truth be told mind creates matter.  But I can tell you're not ready to hear the how and why. 

Just to note.  The emoticon is applicable to only the last sentence above.  I'm quite serious about the others.

 

A fitting cartoon to celebrate my return to the God sub-Forum, after a long ban for speaking truth about covid and the jabs...

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

That's a very good description, and i fully agree. 

Of course one can ask countless questions, but it's down to every single being to understand the answers. 

In order to ask a meaningful question, you need to know already half of the answer...

 

[mauGR1]

35 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

In order to ask a meaningful question, you need to know already half of the answer...

 

Really? Is that a sort of law ?

Not saying you're wrong, but can you give an example ?

[Red Phoenix]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

42 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

In order to ask a meaningful question, you need to know already half of the answer...

 

Really? Is that a sort of law ?

Not saying you're wrong, but can you give an example ?

Hi mauGR1,

A question is meaningful FOR YOU when the answer or answers to it are helpful FOR YOU.

This is not only true for very mundane questions but also for philosophical concepts as addressed on the God sub-forum.

A simple example: It would not be meaningful to ask for directions, when you don't know where you want to go. Missing that essential piece of knowledge, will make it impossible to provide a helpful direct answer.

In other words answers to questions will only be helpful when the receiver can place them in his/her frame-of-reference. 

When someone asks a metaphysical question to which the answer is totally out of his world-view, it will as good as always be to no avail trying to answer. The answer - even if fully correct - will have no anchor-points in the questioner's world-view and it will be rejected or distorted by his pre-conceptions. While that same answer can be an Aha-erlebnis for those that do have the necessary background to appreciate it.

I vividly remember the endless discussions we had 2 years ago with members that had no clue about spirituality and always equaled it with organized religion. Missing that essential concept, their questions were often unanswerable by more knowledgeable members.