I, as well as many other foreigners based in Thailand, will be planning a move to other countries in the next few years.

Times are a 'changing, and Thailand can no longer be considered a good retirement haven or place to raise a family, unless you have endless patience, lots of funds and are prepared to pay agents to handle all your Immigration paperwork. Maybe I was a fool to think Thailand would be a good place to stay.

Here are the facts (if you don't have funds to buy an Elite visa / 10 million Baht condo investment) for most of us unfortunates:

- One must apply for a marriage/retirement extension every year (with a thick ream of paper, new photos, etc, and new requirements every year), and my wife has to take a day off work to show her face at immigration and put a forced 'smile on her dial'

- Every 90 days submit a 90 day report detailing your whereabouts

- Every time you come back from abroad/move out of your area, a TM30 needs to be registered with Immigration.

- It appears that Bangkok Immigration is now starting to charge foreigners for not registering their movements - it appears to be extortion, as this payment should be for the landlords' account, and should in most cases not be levied against foreigners

- The air has become so foul in Bangkok and up North for many months of the year that is could seriously jeopardize your health - 15 years ago the air in Bangkok was relatively clean in the central areas. I think the same applies to the Northern areas. The politicians are so busy with their deals and blaming neighboring countries for the pollution their promises to do something end up as hot air (compare this to Singapore, that put concrete steps in place to lessen air pollution).

- So much paperwork is now involved with simple bank, retirement fund applications and other maintenance transactions (read - AML checks etc) that I wonder where the trees come from to feed the piles of paper.

- If you have been here some time, you will notice that prices have really increased in the big cities, and one does not get value for money anymore, with regard to apartment rentals and food.

- Racism is ever present in Thailand, but appears to have worsened in the last few years under the junta.

If you love traveling every 90 days, one could apply for the multiple entry non O visa - no, I don't enjoy to be forced to escape from Thailand every 90 days. I like to travel when I need and want to. I could overlook the hassles and paperwork for Immigration and agencies like banks, but I balk when the health of my family is at stake. Welcome to a new world!

 

 

People can pick apart specific things in the O.P. for accuracy, but the overall thesis is correct -- Thailand's visa system has become too onerous, and the negatives of living here (pollution and costs, etc.) are trending in the WRONG direction.

 

But I must say there are no paradise options out there that are perfect either. So it does come to down to personal decisions, personal priorities, and picking the set of pros and cons that may be a better fit for you than Thailand. Also of course many will decide that staying in Thailand (or moving here initially) is the best choice for them too, despite the objectively negative developments. 

 

There aren't right or wrong answers on this for all. I hope that people can have respect for the personal decisions that people make now about staying, leaving, coming anew, or rejecting coming anew.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

People can pick apart specific things in the O.P. for accuracy, but the overall thesis is correct -- Thailand's visa system has become too onerous, and the negatives of living here (pollution and costs, etc.) are trending in the WRONG direction.

 

But I must say there are no paradise options out there that are perfect either. So it does come to down to personal decisions, personal priorities, and picking the set of pros and cons that may be a better fit for you than Thailand. Also of course many will decided staying in Thailand is the best choice for them too, despite the objectively negative developments. 

We don't have a crystal ball but I think it is wise to not only consider where things are at now but where will they be here in 5 years?  I think given the current electoral cycle it does not take a rocket scientist to see what is occurring.  Now the question is what will neighboring countries or alternative destinations be like in 5 years...

Agree...

 

I'm way younger than most of the gentleman here, but after meeting my gf quite few years ago I thought Thailand would probably be place to be called home.

 

I was wrong and I'm certain I will never be able to call this place home due to the <deleted myself> that is going on and I can't swallow. And it won't change anytime soon, if ever.

 

The visa every year and 90 day, 30 day, 24 hour bullshit forever? No thanks.

 

Unless you are happy to eat low quality street food and live far from the good locations it has no value anymore too. Vegetables not loaded with toxins, quality meat and other produce is more expensive than in Europe or Australia.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

People can pick apart specific things in the O.P. for accuracy, but the overall thesis is correct //

… maybe if you are from US or UK, and live in Bangkok. But if you are from an other country and live in Pattaya, you can ignore 2/3 of his complaints. 

- Does the OP know what Inflation his? Nearly every country in the world see prices go up along years! BTW prices didn't increase a lot here (compared to my home country) and an important part of our budget, the rent, has go down in past years. 

- Racism? increased? Can't remember when racism impacted me here ?? 

Jesu another one, bya.

I think the key for everyone is to have a contingency plan and sufficient funds to allow other destination options. No country for old men.

Should be an opposing viewpoint. 

 

I've been here 20 years.  Nothing has changed for me.  Maybe it will.  Maybe it won't.  Things have changed in America and I've done better here with my cash as I moved it to baht 20 years ago and locked in my expenses.  I like governments less and less and America is no exception.  I'm a semi recluse.  I only talk to dogs, hookers and taxi drivers.  They don't seem to have changed much.  Motorcycle taxi rates have stayed the same for 20 years.  Song Tau rates have stayed the same for 20 years.  My doctor went from 500 baht to 600 baht a quarter. 

 

I put 16k USD in a Thai bank 20 years ago and withdraw the interest each year and give immigration 1900 baht.  A taxi driver does my 90 day reports.  My pension has increased so I've a bit more to spend.  My wife's house will be paid off in 2 years and that will be a big raise for me. 

 

I keep some money in gold and fixed deposits and regular savings accounts.  Wife has a good job with contracts for the next couple of years. 

 

My grandfather died at 90.  Spent a couple of days in the hospital and died.  That'll be OK for me too. 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz you could have posted that on the other 100 ( Im outa here , but not just now (insert excuse here)) threads . So now will get 50 pages of cut n pastes. 

Nothing new here folks move along now

6 minutes ago, madmen said:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz you could have posted that on the other 100 ( Im outa here , but not just now (insert excuse here)) threads . So now will get 50 pages of cut n pastes. 

Nothing new here folks move along now

Why do you think they do it? Newbies talking to newbies?  The currency chased most folks out years ago.  Look at the population of Pattaya.  Radical change but not this year.  It changed 3 years ago. 

6 hours ago, Johnny Rotten said:

If you have been here some time, you will notice that prices have really increased in the big cities, and one does not get value for money anymore, with regard to apartment rentals and food.

Can't say I've noticed much difference in prices between 2009 (first came) and now.

Petrol is cheaper, hookers cost 3x more.

True and false in the OP's statements. Certainly it is true air quality in CM currently is as bad as I have seen it in ten years.

On the other hand, landlords are falling over one another to get decent tenants in CM. My rental cost has gone down. There are hundreds of even cheaper options if I wanted to move.

Other costs seem to be quite stable. Fruit and vegetables in season are always cheap. I'm paying the same for basics such as bread and beer as 10 years ago.

There are always options. Foul air can be beaten with aircon and an air purifier. A bit more on the electricity bill.

I guess everyone's tolerance for government BS varies from person to person. I pay people to absorb the stress of dealing with a###holes for me.

The only dealbreaker for me here is if health insurance is made compulsory, because I would not be considered by any insurance company.

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Foul air can be beaten with aircon and an air purifier.

I've not enjoyed the air for the past 3 months, and still no end in sight.

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say I've noticed much difference in prices between 2009 (first came) and now.

Petrol is cheaper, hookers cost 3x more.

One would need to factor in a universal cost of living increase no?  Price of cigarettes vs Western cigarettes prices.

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I've not enjoyed the air for the past 3 months, and still no end in sight.

Bring on the rainy season, overdue.

Just now, marcusarelus said:

One would need to factor in a universal cost of living increase no?  Price of cigarettes vs Western cigarettes prices.

I wouldn't factor that in, because that is a discretionary purchase.

A pack of cigarettes in Australia is now about 500 baht. One would have to be truly addicted to smoke there.

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I wouldn't factor that in, because that is a discretionary purchase.

A pack of cigarettes in Australia is now about 500 baht. One would have to be truly addicted to smoke there.

I'd rather spend less on necessities and more on luxuries

"unless you have endless patience, lots of funds and are prepared to pay agents to handle all your Immigration paper work."

    I really don't get it. I can't imagine why a person would want to come to retire in a country where the only way they can do it would be "under the counter" (agents/illegally) because they do not have enough funds to do it the right way.....and then complain when those "doors/ loopholes" start to get closed through the tightening up of the laws.

   I have been doing it the same way for the last 19 years.... money seasoned in the bank (my pension is not big enough). I get a letter from the same bank one time every year and bring it to Soi 5...no big deal.

If for some reason I cannot continue/or afford, to do it this way I shall have to return home (where I would be a "homeless" person. I do not ..for the life of me.. see how this scenario ...is a reason for complaint about... Thailand ???

To much hassle to stay there are better destinations with less headache.

Yes; the regs are a pain. However, dealing with them isn't a major part of my existence. Haven't lost any sleep over them

For the most part, I shop and eat locally. Day to day, I haven't seen any extreme hike in pricing.
 

12 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

… maybe if you are from US or UK, and live in Bangkok. But if you are from an other country and live in Pattaya, you can ignore 2/3 of his complaints. 

- Does the OP know what Inflation his? Nearly every country in the world see prices go up along years! BTW prices didn't increase a lot here (compared to my home country) and an important part of our budget, the rent, has go down in past years. 

- Racism? increased? Can't remember when racism impacted me here ?? 

When I first came to Thailand there were 50 baht to the Euro and 75 to Sterling. So any income from abroad has been halved. And with regards to rent going down and you not being affected by racism? Are you referring to Chonburi or Cuckoo Land? 

I left Thailand 3 years ago after a long time living there an an expat. I don't regret leaving.

 

I've been back a few times since with the Mrs for holidays and after the last trip, I have to say that I don't even feel like visiting any time again soon. It just wasn't that enjoyable due to a number of things including prices no cheaper than home, bad attitudes and a general feeling of not really being that welcome.

 

As for the idea of ever living there again, I certainly would not consider it at this point in time.

 

If you're in a position to leave Thailand after a long time living there and you have the money to make it work elsewhere, there is life after Thailand.

 

Honestly, if my Mrs wasn't Thai I am not sure I'd go back even for a visit.

12 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Jesu another one, bya.

Got that right. 

Who needs these Nattering Nabobs of Negativism anyhow? 

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

.

The only dealbreaker for me here is if health insurance is made compulsory, because I would not be considered by any insurance company.

May I ask why?

2 minutes ago, ExpatNP said:

May I ask why?

Probably pre existing condition

13 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

… maybe if you are from US or UK, and live in Bangkok. But if you are from an other country and live in Pattaya, you can ignore 2/3 of his complaints. 

- Does the OP know what Inflation his? Nearly every country in the world see prices go up along years! BTW prices didn't increase a lot here (compared to my home country) and an important part of our budget, the rent, has go down in past years. 

- Racism? increased? Can't remember when racism impacted me here ?? 

This is great point. I am back in the US at the moment, leaving tomorrow to return home. The prices in the US have gone through the roof. I have sticker shock. Almost nothing is cheaper here than in Thailand despite steep discounts in discount stores...medicines are out of sight, even generics.....stores like CVS and Rite Aid no longer offer generic OTC meds....they have the original brand at a huge price and then their own brand at 5% less....omeprazole (generic for decades and costs 70 baht for 14 capsules, is over $28 for name brand and over $25 for the Rite Aid equivalent. Gas is over $3:00 a gallon ie around 25 baht a litre. Beer has gone to $10 bucks a six pack. I go tp the supermarket Shop Rite (brilliant election of foods) and walk out with a couple of bags of shopping for $70.....and then go back the next day for the same thing. I honestly don't know how folks manage on less than $150,000 a year.

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

To much hassle to stay there are better destinations with less headache.

Like where?

12 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Jesu another one, bya.

Excellent observation!  These threads all look like they are written by the same poster, with the same recurrent theme.  All that is missing here is the "let's all move to Ecuador" theme with alot of silly food videos.  The sooner these types leave, the better it will be for all!  They will most likely carry on moaning wherever they end up.

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say I've noticed much difference in prices between 2009 (first came) and now.

Petrol is cheaper, hookers cost 3x more.

Cannot comment on hookers prices, but as to petrol for cars your memory seems to be a bit in wishful thinking mode... End of 2008 gasohol 95 thb 17 per liter.

2019 thb 29......

13 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I think the key for everyone is to have a contingency plan and sufficient funds to allow other destination options. No country for old men.

Damn  right, there is a risk for older people of having to self "evacuate" back to their homeland with scant assets and/or family support if they suffer financial or health issues. People really do need a back up plan.