Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[madmen]

2 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I have bupa international insurance. how do I prove it?

?  your policy docs

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, EL159 said:

Theres supposed to be a list of "recommended insurers" about six on there but does not include AETNA, but then again, "recommended" is not "statutory" I guess?

I would say yours will be OK mine isn't on the list either I pay 16,000 baht six monthly it only covers in-patient, I pay for out-patient care so that's where the new ruling makes no sense to me. 

 

I got a quote from Pacific prime on one website and health cover was 1,160 bht a month covering in-patient & out-patient.

On the previous thread which listed Pacific Cross cover 70,000 baht per year.

 

I think I need a beer. ????

 

 

[kentrot]

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them, while in 2017, foreigners made 3.3 million medical visits and did not pay for 565,000 of them. 

***********************

Would it be possible to identify the country of origin of those 680,000 non-paying patients ?

 

That might help to identify a pattern ,  if there is one .....

and narrow the target of who deserves to be scrutinized by this initiative.

[Jingthing]

This guy seems clear that the requirement will apply to EXTENSIONS as well, whether you started on an O or O-A.

I'm not saying he's always right but I still think it's worth posting --

 

 

[chilly07]

Absolute nonsense!

Even assuming that half of the people in Thailand are NOT on O-A Visas and that it's closer to 380k, 9 hospital visits per annum by everyone of those 380k is incorrect. I make 3 a year at a cost of 2200baht per visit all paid for in cash. These Hospitals have teams of people whose jobs consist of getting in the cash, treatment being dependent on payment.

Then apparently 81k hospital visits are running up unpaid bills of 3700 baht per visit implying that none of the bills are paid. However the figures quoted show 448 baht per unpaid bill! 

The figures are complete nonsense.

I suspect these figures are for the entire population of Thailand and the reference to O-A is incorrect and the debt figures quoted relate entirely to Thailand's itinerant workforce from adjacent Countries or Tourists. Problem easily solved by levying a 500 baht surcharge on all foreign workers or even easier -Tourists!

No way can 380k OA visa holders be responsible for unpaid health bills of half of the population of Thailand especially as Thais have a 30baht free health scheme    

 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, kentrot said:

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them, while in 2017, foreigners made 3.3 million medical visits and did not pay for 565,000 of them. 

***********************

Would it be possible to identify the country of origin of those 680,000 non-paying patients ?

 

That might help to identify a pattern ,  if there is one .....

and narrow the target of who deserves to be scrutinized by this initiative.

When I go to the government hospital they copy my passport, so the question to ask is, do they want to identify the nationality of the non-payers?

And I would answer, no they don't because this whole shitstorm isn't about hospital fees, it's about demonising western folk who keep speaking out about democracy.

[RBOP]

Lies lies lies... those stats are a complete fabrication of lies. So half of Thailand's population are "Non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 38 million " Bullshot. 

[micmichd]

28 minutes ago, steve73 said:

I'm sure this has already been commented on... but there were NOT 38 million here on O-A visa's last year.. 

 

Perhaps 38 million total visitor arrivals (many of who would have been repeat visitors).

 

So are they saying that EVERY visitor needs this insurance.  Buy it at the arrivals hall.

 

500bt to the I/O official perhaps...? - Actually just 10 bt per visitor would cover the 300 MM bt shortfall..

 

I'm not sure whether it' the reporting that's totally f....d up, or whether it's the whole country...

I'm German. In Germany it's mandatory for everyone that works or is a student to get a health insurance, and they give you a health insurance card. Even I as a pensioner have such a health insurance card. 

Now Germany and Thailand could make a contract saying: We accept your social health insurance on a reciprocal base. You pay for our medical services, and we'll pay for yours. 

Since even German ex-employees and now-pensioners are part of the social security system, such a resolution could solve all problems - even the problem with pre-existing conditions, since German social health care companies are not allowed to refuse paying. 

 

Guess the same would hold true for many other West European countries. 

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This guy seems clear that the requirement will apply to EXTENSIONS as well, whether you started on an O or O-A.

I'm not saying he's always right but I still think it's worth posting --

 

 

This lawyer's only source was The Nation article in the OP. I will not say anything else about what I saw in his video, because the last time I did so, I got suspended.

[GeorgeCross]

5 minutes ago, kentrot said:

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them, while in 2017, foreigners made 3.3 million medical visits and did not pay for 565,000 of them. 

***********************

Would it be possible to identify the country of origin of those 680,000 non-paying patients ?

 

That might help to identify a pattern ,  if there is one .....

and narrow the target of who deserves to be scrutinized by this initiative.

 

oh theres a pattern alright

 

old white guys and gals have money $$$$

 

no more scrutiny needed i'm afraid

 

 

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

How about a tourist getting stabbed while robbed..He gets admitted hospital then who is responsible that bill?

Yes thats a concern, the health insurance has some limted accident coverage but probably not extended hospitial stay.

 

[RBOP]

I suspect massive corruption going on by these hospitals claiming massive losses due to foreigners.  AMLO and Ombudsman should investigate. 

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, micmichd said:

I'm German. In Germany it's mandatory for everyone that works or is a student to get a health insurance, and they give you a health insurance card. Even I as a pensioner have such a health insurance card. 

Now Germany and Thailand could make a contract saying: We accept your social health insurance on a reciprocal base. You pay for our medical services, and we'll pay for yours. 

Since even German ex-employees and now-pensioners are part of the social security system, such a resolution could solve all problems - even the problem with pre-existing conditions, since German social health care companies are not allowed to refuse paying. 

 

Guess the same would hold true for many other West European countries. 

Don't give a damn about Germany and its "special" conditions.

[Krataiboy]

15 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I struggle to understand all the figures given in this article ??

Mainly:

Surely that is fully incorrect. I would bet tens or hundreds thousands at max, no?

The figures make no sense unless, in addition to O-A visa holders, they also include long-stay foreign residents who, like myself, are granted annual extensions on the grounds of "retirement" (written above the current renewal stamp). Originally, I was here on a marriage visa, but changed the purpose of my stay after divorcing.

 

The compulsory insurance net being cast at brutally short notice by Thai Immigration will be largely ineffectual if it fails to snare those who arguably impose the biggest strain on the already-creaking Thai healthcare services. I am talking about frail and elderly pensioners on fixed, inflation-eroded incomes who cannot afford private hospitals or PMI.

 

What more obvious target to be fleeced or sent packing could there possibly be for the xenophobes in high places?

 

Despite the reassurances from numerous ThaiVisa posters to the contrary, official pronouncements are confusing and seem to blur any distinction between O-A visa holders and those on yearly "retirement" extensions.

 

Immigration has publicly acknowledged legitimate concerns over the fate of expats unable - for whatever reason - to obtain the mandatory new insurance cover. Yet no official alternative has as yet been offered to simply showing them the door.

 

One obvious solution, surely, would be to permit "uninsurables" to keep a fixed lump sum in a Thai bank deposit account specifically for their healthcare needs.

 

Failing this, the thud of bodies falling from high-rises in Pattaya and other popular falang retirement cities is likely to become deafening.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Krataiboy

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Wonder  how  much that cost them to do? 20  staff each when one bloke with a phone could do the job in the rest of the world.

How many Thais got free medical treatment in the UK and other western countries this past year?

So what is the big deal if some westerners got free treatment in Thailand?

[Destiny1990]

I been in several Thai hospitals and i never noticed any opportunity for NOT paying my hospital bill.

These numbers seem highly disputable.

 

[Destiny1990]

43 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I would think that no matter who is responsible or the reason for being there, the patient receiving the treatment is ultimately responsible for the bill. It is up to them who/if they later claim it back from. (IMHO)

What is clear for me is that an huge amount of foreigners are ending up in hospitals for various reasons and often not their own fault.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

According to this they are bonkers. There was about 38 million tourist in total last year. Thus the number of hospital visits and unpaid visits are for all the tourist and not only longstayers. They thus want longstayers to have cover while the real problem is the normal tourist. Just another day in an uneducated world where people without any logic and commonsense have the power to make the lives of other hell.

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[theboogeyman]

http://www.tricare-overseas.com/beneficiaries/resources/provider-search/search-results?region=PAC&country=Thailand&location=TOP Remote - Bangkok%2C Thailand&radius=any&units=1&searchBy=location

 

 

My TRICARE covers my wife and I for Bangkok Hospital in Korat as well but a lot of times I just pay the bill out of pocket unless it’s something really expensive then I’ll pull out my overseas TRICARE insurance card. I’m 100% disabled and medically retired after 21 years of service so my healthcare is pretty much totally free of charge even overseas. Where I live in Korat Bangkok Hospital by far provides the best medical care.

 

 

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[Knee Jerk Reaction]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

I have no pre-existing conditions at all. I was actually never really sick in my life except for some accidents. And I have an accident insurance. 

Why should I mess around with expensive private health insurances that will probably never pay anything voluntarily? 

Like you I was never really sick in my life, then out of the blue I had a life changing brain haemorrhage that nearly finished me off. My health insurance company wriggled out of paying the major part of what was a very expensive bill despite having had a small fortune out of me in premiums. The stress they caused me was actually a further threat to my health. My own opinion after dealing with insurers is that it is better to self insure than be jerked around by these insurance sharks.

[smedly]

47 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

 

I can’t believe just how short sighted some people are!

Just how sustainable do you perceive health insurance for a retired person is!

Frankly just look long term, and park the 440k in the bank on 2% interest, sorted!

Unless you don’t expect to live beyond 65!

Insurance is a total crock, because it also won’t cover pre existing conditions!

So it is a Clayton’s insurance!


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I am completely in agreement with you

 

not sure why you replied to me

[Derek B]

16 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

If all these millions of OA visa holders are skipping their hospital bills then why don’t they chase em up !!

After all , what with the TM 30 and 90 days reporting they are easily tracked down

Exactly..............not to mention the hirer charges applied to foreigners as opposed to Thais for the same standard of care. Just like visiting the National Parks.

[Mango Bob]

5 minutes ago, theboogeyman said:

 

 

My TRICARE covers my wife and I for Bangkok Hospital in Korat as well but a lot of times I just pay the bill out of pocket unless it’s something really expensive then I’ll pull out my overseas TRICARE insurance card. I’m 100% disabled and medically retired after 21 years of service so my healthcare is pretty much totally free of charge even overseas. Where I live in Korat Bangkok Hospital by far provides the best medical care.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

You don' have to pay 25% of the bill?  If not that is great.  I have Tricare for Life but I am worried about them accepting it since there is no 40,000/400,000 type policy.

[theboogeyman]

According to this they are bonkers. There was about 38 million tourist in total last year. Thus the number of hospital visits and unpaid visits are for all the tourist and not only longstayers. They thus want longstayers to have cover while the real problem is the normal tourist. Just another day in an uneducated world where people without any logic and commonsense have the power to make the lives of other hell.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

It might be easier for tourists to get away without paying the bill. Although I still don’t get it because you can’t check out of the hospital without settling the bill or even pick up your medication without settling the bill. It’s not like the states where you can deal with the bill later, in Thailand you can’t leave the hospital without settling the bill first. If you walked out of the hospital without taking care of the bill first they’ll have the cops looking for you.


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[AAArdvark]

5 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

Really ? Since when?

From the Thai Embassy Washington listing the types of visas:

 

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-A” (1 year)

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-X” (10 years)

Those age 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working. Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

[smedly]

29 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

I been in several Thai hospitals and i never noticed any opportunity for NOT paying my hospital bill.

These numbers seem highly disputable.

 

like I said, someone is looking to boost their earnings and is making stuff up to try and justify it, I wonder how many private companies and officials have shares or ownership  in private hospitals and Thai insurance companies - my best guess would be they are all financially interconnected

 

Money Number 1

[AAArdvark]

4 hours ago, userabcd said:

Certainly not a good deal if one is of a certain age and has several preconditions, it will be just paying an insurance company money for no benefit.

One of the issues with "pre-existing conditions" is how it is interpreted.  Say you have a persistent problem with a foot.  It is a pre-existing condition.  An insurance  company could give you insurance for everything but the foot.  The way insurance companies in the US interpreted it was that nothing could be covered.  I know because I have experienced it in the US.

[AAArdvark]

3 hours ago, randy723 said:

why not ALL people with a OA visa not just the ones over 50 because the young people are the ones who most need it because they leave their brain at home when they come here and are the one that have most of the accident and need the medical care.

Because everyone with an OA visa is over 50 as a requirment.

[boonrawdcnx]

all of this over 300 MILLION baht! have they lost their marbles
 
i reckon when my family pull out of this country we'll take 10% of that with us at least. i wonder how many others are thinking the same.
 
and for the record i'm all up for insurance but i'll be damned if i'm paying 100K for 400K cover. 
 
catastrophic cancer cover is a different matter.
 
would have been better to break the 300M up over the total expats and pay that to a gov fund. would be about 1000 baht each. 
 
not this crap and not forcing it. idiots.
 
plan b activated.

Agree with you - after 33 years in this country even I have had slowly enough of these idiots here.
Constantly trying to rip us off - to stupid to run a country trying to make everybody else pay for their stupidity and I am talking about everybody - Thais and foreigners alike.
Wasting the taxes we all pay in the hundreds of billions of which a sizable amount goes into corruption they then try to recover whatever they can from all of us - they can kiss my white butt very soon.
I don’t think they realize that Thailand has long lost it’s shine - while it was still fun here 20- 30 years ago everything seems to have gone downhill from there. Hell even most of my Thai friends who have seen other beautiful, clean countries in the past want to leave and some have left already only visiting for a holiday once a year.

Whatever they touch here seems to go to waste money, money,money, greed and corruption wherever you look.
While I have no problem with most regular Thai folks - the opposite is the case I have some wonderful friends here - I am sick and tired of this so called “elite” with half a brain acting like they are superior but couldn’t run a kindergarten let alone a country! The garbage everywhere, environmental destruction, breathing toxic air and eating contaminated food - since quite some time now I have been thinking about leaving.
My home country on the other hand starts to look more and more attractive as it has developed forward and not backwards. It is beautiful and clean, summer is amazing, spring and autumn beautiful and I am sure we will be able to find a cosy place for the winter in Spain, Southern Italy or Portugal.
Pity I have just invested millions here again but we can wait to sell off our assets here, with the strong Baht we might even make an extra nice profit moving and my Thai partners wish to move to Europe will finally becoming reality!




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[AAArdvark]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Unlike the O-X visa scheme, this latest proposal re O-A visa holders would NOT require the insurance to be issued from a set of government-approved providers... As described thus far, the O-A requirement would allow insurance from any insurer, Thai or foreign, as long as the policy met the 400K/40K coverage requirements.

 

I have a foreign insurance policy that covers way more than the requirements.  However, in the fine print it only has emergency coverage here.  I wonder if I could get away with that.