Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[IvorBiggun2]

51 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

 

 

The basic gist of what I'm trying to say: 1996, when pensionieers were added as a category, was a more advantageous time for foreigners, now it's going in opposite direction. And IMHO will only get worse.

Why would that be, in your opinion? I'm not saying you're wrong but how much worse can it get? I dread to think for the sake of my kids.

[DrTuner]

10 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why would that be, in your opinion? I'm not saying you're wrong but how much worse can it get? I dread to think for the sake of my kids.

Gradual tightening of the rules and enforcement of all regulations, no matter how stupid, including TM28 24h reports to police every time you visit another province. More of what we're seeing now, crackdowns and shakedowns. If shit really hits the fan, they'll issue a new heavily modified police order which in the same style as PR rules makes it near impossible for people to stay. The trend is that way.

 

Plan B,C,D and always one leg out.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, Isaanlawyers said:

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

Perfect timing for your comment.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/bangkok-thailand-several-small-explosions-bombs-asean-summit-11774794

 

These terrorist surely did their tm28 and tm30.....

Just heard from a friend that the Chaengwattana bombs targeted Building B, which houses Thai Immigration.  After your recent impressive moves in the media, I think they may be willing to listen.

 

[watcharacters]

 

I got confused.

 

For a brief few moments I was thinking Thailand is a democracy.

[puck2]

I don't know the Thai word which is used for the term "address" in the law.

 

But the Thai offices translate your short-time staying out of your home in another province as "address". 

 

Then please IMMI, send all the fine-papers to "my address" of the  hotel/guesthouse/friend/etc.. But not to my real address -  .

Then you will see how the "address" is working !

 

 

[Sunderland]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Just heard from a friend that the Chaengwattana bombs targeted Building B, which houses Thai Immigration.  After your recent impressive moves in the media, I think they may be willing to listen.

 

It's safe to say that immigration was not a specific target. Building B is home to a lot more than just immigration.

[gamesgplayemail]

3 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

I will ask. I know the owner of Thaivisa.

 

Wishing you to know him very well if you hope to get a privilege for free !!! hahahaha

[schlemmi]

The strict enforcement of article 37(2)(3) and article 38 as it is actually done in addition with the new eServices to make the registration as convinient as possible leads to a higly potent datasource of movement or activity data   of each single foreinger. Once collected enough data the immigration not only know where each foreinger stays, than they know the relationships between  all foreingers including the relationships to the thai citicens. Additionaly they get knowledge about the strength of the bonds between 2 related nodes because they can  count how often and how long 2 related nodes are in contact. That builds up a quite powerfull profile about the foreingner-thai society. Maby, suddenly you or me could get in truble with the narcotics devision because one of his strong bond nodes or there deeper level nodes are involved in illegal drugbussiness.

As i remember, not so long time ago there was a form urged the foreigners to tell their frequently visited places and other quite personal data. In my honest opinion that indicates exactely what the intention is.
If they need it to protect thailand they have to draft a foreingers monitoring and profiling act. But a act พระราชบัญญ้ติ (Praratschabanjat) has to be signed by  his majesty the king. Not so easy.

What is ongoing now seems to be an attempt to implement such a profiling system by undergoing the actual law. This strict enforcement and how its handled now can not be only to get static addressdata of each foreinger to may contact him easily  eg. to check or deport him.
To find foreingers on overstay, just run a frequently triggered database query to find all entrys where the overstay is mor than 40 days (the 20kBaht / 500 a day) print the deporting warrants and visit them. The enter/exit data of each is in the DB, the address too (tm6). But i think the overstayers not report to the immigration at all nor give a true address on the tm6.

Those are hard to find. Even not with the perfect monitoring system.
The simple tm30 single report would enough to do so. Despite of this the housemaster had to take a look into the passport, and if the guest is on overstay better not host him. Its illegal.

[schlemmi]

1 hour ago, schlemmi said:

What is ongoing now seems to be an attempt to implement such a profiling system by undergoing the actual law.

Have to correct my own writing. Here the correction:

 

... What is ongoing now seems to be an attempt to implement such a profiling system by circumvent the actual law....

 

Sorry.

[DJ54]

I’ve read the prior post before topic was closed and unfortunately don’t have time to read the new ones here. I’m busy on a project. 

 

- Question: Are we risking stoking the fire for future requirements for something relatively easy? 

 

I read the attached about the challenges Immigration sees. Best if

you go online and read the whole article. Immigration has no problem,s with long stay expats as long as Expats follow the

laws.

 

Thw number of people (I’d guess it fairly significant) bending the system and not abiding the rules really are the cause for the enforcement of the rules.  I don’t know what longest years overstay 

in the high teens? Couple that with people that have legal issues 

aboard it’s been a hide out. 

 

The TM-30 hasn’t been a time consuming issue for me. I’ve lived here 3 years and can’t complain. 

 

Has anyone from the group met with Immigration (decision makers? ) and discussed openly? We don’t want to blindside 

them with it without trying to discuss first. 

 

If you have time read the full article and maybe it wil, give a clearer

understanding of why.

 

wellits not letting me attach so here is a cut and paste. Make sure to go online and read the whole article so you have a good understanding.

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2016/03/expats-thailand/

 

Trouble in paradise: Thailand and the expatriate experience

 

 

 

 

[Takeprofit]

On 8/1/2019 at 7:22 PM, DrTuner said:

Replace them all with computers.

I think at least 50% of Thai workers (incl. immigration staff) can be replaced by computers.

But Thailand is amazing. They don't need it.

And this report will just help to destroy trees on our planet for nothing.

I wonder what they do with these tons of paper collected every day...

[IvorBiggun2]

8 hours ago, DJ54 said:

not abiding the rules

It's the immigration offices that bend the rules in the first place. Without the use of Agents then it's fair to say most farangs, without the required finances, would be gone. Close down the Agents and most of the rule breaking will be history.

Edited August 5, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[lkv]

9 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

It's the immigration offices that bend the rules in the first place. Without the use of Agents then it's fair to say most farangs, without the required finances, would be gone. Close down the Agents and most of the rule breaking will be history.

But what happens then with people that have purchased their positions? 

 

The reason one pays money to get a position is because of the return on the investment, which comes from under the table payments, not from mediocre government employee wages.

Edited August 5, 2019 by lkv

[ChipButty]

27 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

It's the immigration offices that bend the rules in the first place. Without the use of Agents then it's fair to say most farangs, without the required finances, would be gone. Close down the Agents and most of the rule breaking will be history.

Not all I know guys who use them and dont need to do anything dodgy just cant be bothered doing it themselves 

[MRToMRT]

40 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

It's the immigration offices that bend the rules in the first place. Without the use of Agents then it's fair to say most farangs, without the required finances, would be gone. Close down the Agents and most of the rule breaking will be history.

There are many agents in Bangkok who provide bona fide legal services in compliance with Immigration Rules and are not dodgy (see chipbutty above as well). MANY people use them rather than lose a day to Chaeng Wattana. I do as do thousands of others in Bangkok also. Many Bangkok companies use them to assist their foreign staff.

 

Those who provide dodgy services should be shut down I agree. They are fraudulent. 

[IvorBiggun2]

49 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

 

Those who provide dodgy services should be shut down I agree. They are fraudulent. 

Unfortunately the innocent become casualties in conflict ie the straight agents in this case. But if it that happens and it clears up the mess, that seems to be happening, then I won't complain.

 

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Not all I know guys who use them and dont need to do anything dodgy just cant be bothered doing it themselves 

If using an agent isn't dodgy then why did 'Big Joke', back in late 2018, put a ban on all agents from entering government offices???

[CMNightRider]

18 hours ago, DJ54 said:

I’ve read the prior post before topic was closed and unfortunately don’t have time to read the new ones here. I’m busy on a project. 

 

- Question: Are we risking stoking the fire for future requirements for something relatively easy? 

 

I read the attached about the challenges Immigration sees. Best if

you go online and read the whole article. Immigration has no problem,s with long stay expats as long as Expats follow the

laws.

 

Thw number of people (I’d guess it fairly significant) bending the system and not abiding the rules really are the cause for the enforcement of the rules.  I don’t know what longest years overstay 

in the high teens? Couple that with people that have legal issues 

aboard it’s been a hide out. 

 

The TM-30 hasn’t been a time consuming issue for me. I’ve lived here 3 years and can’t complain. 

 

Has anyone from the group met with Immigration (decision makers? ) and discussed openly? We don’t want to blindside 

them with it without trying to discuss first. 

 

If you have time read the full article and maybe it wil, give a clearer

understanding of why.

 

wellits not letting me attach so here is a cut and paste. Make sure to go online and read the whole article so you have a good understanding.

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2016/03/expats-thailand/

 

Trouble in paradise: Thailand and the expatriate experience

 

 

 

 

You must be one of those Thais immigration has hired to post on Thai Visa?  You may want to work on your writing skills so you look more believable.  

[tifino]

a Petition is just a parody of a thing called a Private Vote

 

it (voting)  just won't work anywhere that is not a true democracy

 

[IvorBiggun2]

19 hours ago, DJ54 said:

The TM-30 hasn’t been a time consuming issue for me. I’ve lived here 3 years and can’t complain. 

It's not about 'time consuming'. It's about being given the runaround. If it's not one thing it's another. Try coming on here in 10 years or more and say 'I can't complain'. It'll get to you, just give it time.

[Mansell]

On July 29, 2019 at 10:46 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

So.....anyone that doesn't sign the petition is afraid and not worthy of being called a man.

I'd sign a petition for your deportation in a flash. It would increase the average IQ of the expat community 

Extremely doubtful. What are you afraid of?

[DrTuner]

Seems the goal was dropped to 5k, 3504 at the moment. The thread has gone eerily quiet, gone the same way as TVF's discussion with Immigration Chief, never to be heard from again?

[lkv]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

3504 at the moment. 

????????????????

Edited August 6, 2019 by lkv

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been removed. 

[Rdrokit]

Maybe things have changed recently but I have lived in Thailand permanently going on 14 years now. I have traveled all over Thailand, Europe and the USA on vacations and never filled out a TM30 or TM28. I just renewed my retirement OA visa in March 2019 without any problems. 

 

If Immigration did away with anything I would vote for 90 day reporting.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Rdrokit

[bkkcanuck8]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:37 AM, Rdrokit said:

Maybe things have changed recently but I have lived in Thailand permanently going on 14 years now. I have traveled all over Thailand, Europe and the USA on vacations and never filled out a TM30 or TM28. I just renewed my retirement OA visa in March 2019 without any problems. 

 

If Immigration did away with anything I would vote for 90 day reporting.

 

You should not have to fill out the TM30 - that is for the landlord.  I think that in around 2006 the TM30 was changed, in that before that year (or there abouts) there use to be an exemption if you were letting less than 4 units.   Now the rule covers everyone, and it is being enforced more and sometimes for returning from another city in Thailand which can be a little insane.

 

I would be happy with a simple change where they had two classes of addresses -- one temporary (hotel, etc.), and the other class being 'permanent' (with phone number) (you could have multiple permanent)...  The rules should state that you can stay at a 'permanent' address without any extra hassle, or if not then a TM30 would have to be filled out for the occupant (hotel).  If they really wanted to find you they should be able to call you or visit your permanent addresses fairly easily and quickly (which should not happen often if ever). 

[Rdrokit]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

You should not have to fill out the TM30 - that is for the landlord.  I think that in around 2006 the TM30 was changed, in that before that year (or there abouts) there use to be an exemption if you were letting less than 4 units.   Now the rule covers everyone, and it is being enforced more and sometimes for returning from another city in Thailand which can be a little insane.

 

I would be happy with a simple change where they had two classes of addresses -- one temporary (hotel, etc.), and the other class being 'permanent' (with phone number) (you could have multiple permanent)...  The rules should state that you can stay at a 'permanent' address without any extra hassle, or if not then a TM30 would have to be filled out for the occupant (hotel).  If they really wanted to find you they should be able to call you or visit your permanent addresses fairly easily and quickly (which should not happen often if ever). 

I don't have a landlord. Been living in the same house that my wife and I built 13 years ago and have not moved. If this rule is enforced than my wife would need to fill out a TM 30 when we arrive back from holiday even though I have a yellow house book. And if we left the country on holiday we would both need to fill out a TM30. Immigration will need to hire more people to keep track of all this added paperwork and figure out who needs to be fined. 

 

I don't think Immigration figured out before they decide to enforce this policy how much of a hassle they have created. Now they don't want to back track because they will loose face. Amazing Thailand.

[ThomasThBKK]

I don't have a landlord. Been living in the same house that my wife and I built 13 years ago and have not moved. If this rule is enforced than my wife would need to fill out a TM 30 when we arrive back from holiday even though I have a yellow house book. And if we left the country on holiday we would both need to fill out a TM30. Immigration will need to hire more people to keep track of all this added paperwork and figure out who needs to be fined. 
 
I don't think Immigration figured out before they decide to enforce this policy how much of a hassle they have created. Now they don't want to back track because they will loose face. Amazing Thailand.

Yellow housebook l is fine if u are listed as the house master u don't need to report yourself all the time.

U won't get listed out if u leave via airport if in housebook

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 7/28/2019 at 7:10 PM, mike787 said:

Good luck!!!  Second coming of christ maybe more likely before that happens.  Can't hurt to try.  

 

hmmmmmm. Seen the news recently? improvements?  :)

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 7/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, Roy Baht said:

No it can't. The Thai government bowing to pressure from foreigners? It would cause loss of face and set a dangerous precedent. If anything, it will make them enforce the law more strictly.

 

What do you think now? Some improvements?  ????  You know so well the Thai government. You know that they also bowed to foreign chambers of commerce about the Foreign Business Act before. 

Now, please stop spreading rumors.

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 7/28/2019 at 9:13 PM, KMartinHandyman said:

Let me know when it’s 9,999

 

7,000 is about 1-2 months. We stopped promoting after and the 9,999 what not in the law or anything. I guess you achieve most by posting useless comments.