Back on topic, has anyone's favourite bar or restaurant actually closed? Are you struggling to find somewhere to eat or drink.? ????

2 hours ago, kinyara said:

Back on topic, has anyone's favourite bar or restaurant actually closed? Are you struggling to find somewhere to eat or drink.? ????

Yes.... Crazy House, sure miss it!

11 hours ago, kinyara said:

Back on topic, has anyone's favourite bar or restaurant actually closed? Are you struggling to find somewhere to eat or drink.? ????

Pig and Whistle.  Butcher's Arms.  Tequila Reef.  Retox.

 

All closed.  Not reopened. 

 

Were they my favorites, yes and no, but I did frequent them. 

 

Am I struggling to find a drink and meal elsewhere, no, of course not, but those choices are no longer available.

 

How log before more choice and variety is unavailable?

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

Pig and Whistle.  Butcher's Arms.  Tequila Reef.  Retox.

Actually ...

 

P&W - Closed

Butchers Arms - Sold and Re-opened

Tequila Reef - Closed and staff Re-opened elsewhere

Retox - Closed

Hungry Panda close to opening ..

 

22 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Actually ...

 

P&W - Closed

Butchers Arms - Sold and Re-opened

Tequila Reef - Closed and staff Re-opened elsewhere

Retox - Closed

Perhaps we should clarify something, as it has come up in the thread previously.

 

If a hospitality establishment closes, and remains closed, it's simple, there is no trading going on in the property.  So that's a hospitality establishment lost.  Eg. Pig and Whistle.

 

If a hospitality establishment closes, and is reopened as a shoe shop, for example, are you counting that as a new opening, or a lost hospitality establishment?  Eg. Butcher's Arms (I concede alcohol can still be purchased in the new business) 

 

If a hospitality establishment closes, and reopens under a different name, but remains a hospitality establishment, are you counting this as a new opening, and if so, how do you see it as a net gain in hospitality establishments here?

 

If a hospitality establishment closes, and relocates away from a central location, are you counting this as a new opening?  Eg. Tequila Reef

 

If a hospitality establishment, say a restaurant, closes, and is reopened as a bar, or vice versa, how do you count this?  

 

In recent time, can you name any businesses, for example, a shoe shop, that has closed, and become a hospitality establishment?  A genuine new build opening.  

 

Going back to your original post, you asked has anyone's favorite bar actually closed.  I list four establishments.  Two of the four remain closed.  That's 50% of the list. 

 

To be clear, what, exactly, to you define as a "new opening?" 

McDoners opening a new branch in Soi Arunothai.

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

In recent time, can you name any businesses, for example, a shoe shop, that has closed, and become a hospitality establishment?  A genuine new build opening.  

Yep. Corner of N. Pattaya & 2nd Rd., maybe 10 shops selling cheap tourist goods in a deserted practically abandoned complex. A few other miscellaneous shops around the corner, e. g., law office. 

 

T21 demolished all and opened a huge number of new restaurants including all those food stalls in the food court. And with T21, a number of other new restos nearby plus other businesses. Genuine. New. Wide range of choices. We're carefully ignoring the elephant in the room of course but all these openings will dwarf any number of closings in Pattaya you can chortle over for the next 10 - 20 years. Oh--some will close and open there, too. Dynamic economy. In the mall in my hometown, still quite successful, all the shops and restos I knew growing up have been entirely replaced. Get over it.

 

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

I list four establishments.  Two of the four remain closed.  That's 50% of the list. 

So that's one person on a list of one who's claiming to lament the loss of some superfluous establishments. Wait for it: "we're going to see more and more!" How alarming.

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Yep. Corner of N. Pattaya & 2nd Rd., maybe 10 shops selling cheap tourist goods in a deserted practically abandoned complex. A few other miscellaneous shops around the corner, e. g., law office. 

 

T21 demolished all and opened a huge number of new restaurants including all those food stalls in the food court. And with T21, a number of other new restos nearby plus other businesses. Genuine. New. Wide range of choices. We're carefully ignoring the elephant in the room of course but all these openings will dwarf any number of closings in Pattaya you can chortle over for the next 10 - 20 years. Oh--some will close and open there, too. Dynamic economy. In the mall in my hometown, still quite successful, all the shops and restos I knew growing up have been entirely replaced. Get over it.

 

So that's one person on a list of one who's claiming to lament the loss of some superfluous establishments. Wait for it: "we're going to see more and more!" How alarming.

Did you read the below sentence, in its entirety?

 

"In recent time, can you name any businesses, for example, a shoe shop, that has closed, and become a hospitality establishment?  A genuine new build opening."

 

Are "cheap tourist goods" in the hospitality sector, as in, food and beverage, or entertainment?  Is a law office in the hospitality sector?  

 

Yes, I would consider T21 to be a new build.  Members have already posted many photos of the empty restaurants there.  Just scroll back a few pages.  They are all dead, and were dead long before the virus.

 

The food court in T21 is busy.  Which small eateries do you think it put out of business, or do you think the 360 degrees Pattaya pie can be cut into slices totaling 400 degress, as the Thai's seem to think?  ????

 

"Superfluous establishments."  Really?  Tequila Reef had been around for years, same as Pig & Whistle, and The Butcher's Arms.  PJ's on Soi 7 has recently been given away for free, now, Retox bar is for sale, which is probably Pattaya's number one sports bar, that also has accommodation and meals. 

 

Just what bar, gogo or nightclub would have to close for you to think things are not so well with the western tourism industry in Pattaya? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Did you read the below sentence, in its entirety?

 

"In recent time, can you name any businesses, for example, a shoe shop, that has closed, and become a hospitality establishment?  A genuine new build opening."

 

Are "cheap tourist goods" in the hospitality sector, as in, food and beverage, or entertainment?  Is a law office in the hospitality sector? 

Duh. If a shoe shop can close and become a hospitality establishment, then so can a tourist shop or a law office. However, that large complex did house some restos and a coffee shop that had closed even earlier. Happy? Kiss didn't close as is often thought but moved down Naklua Rd.

 

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Yes, I would consider T21 to be a new build.

We've achieved a major breakthrough here, pal. Repeat "T21" to yourself 10 times a day.

 

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Members have already posted many photos of the empty restaurants there.  Just scroll back a few pages.  They are all dead, and were dead long before the virus.

You can go anywhere at some time to find some places empty. So it was with the shopping mall near where I grew up. During the day, you'd wonder how any shop or resto stayed in business. In fact it was one of the richest malls in the country. Oh--a few shops were always closed while waiting for a new tenant. Customers don't have to lined up at the cashiers at all times. If it were in Pattaya, its doom would have been imminent of course.

 

On the other hand, go at the right times and you find plenty of business. Went there a month ago during the week for a movie, got out around 8 PM and was amazed how many shops and restos were doing great. Our members, though Big Spenders, can't understand why anybody would spend B3,000 on a pair of Levis at the mall. Not Russians, of course: we know they spend nothing. Except who was buying Levis? Russians. Indians--oh, they walk around sharing a soda with 5 straws, spend nothing. Oh, but Uniqlo had quite a few Indian families buying all sorts of clothes. Lots of Chinese in there, too. Weekends, our members try avoid: they hate crowds. ???? Holidays, sales, etc. Gotta understand the mall biz.

 

But TVF members are extremely near-sighted and their vision highly selective when it comes to malls. In fact, no customers have ever been seen in any malls, ever. The reason is that they cannot possibly exist. Thais have no money, high so Thais all shop in Hong Kong/Singapore, tourists have malls in their own countries. Anybody in a mall is just looking not buying: we don't allow any looking before buying in Thailand. Fortunately, TVF Economics has supplied the reason: money laundering! ???? We also like to throw in air conditioning, hee hee.

 

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do you think the 360 degrees Pattaya pie can be cut into slices totaling 400 degress, as the Thai's seem to think?  ????

The imaginary Fixed Pie is the central foundation of TVF economic myth and inevitably appears whenever a new building goes up. Any new business can't exist without cannibalizing an existing one. There's no population growth, no birth rate, no economic growth, no expanding tourist markets, no movement, in fact no new money at all created since the Golden Egg Layers all headed for the exits to be loved just for themselves in Cambodia. Yep, all that's left is the divvying up the Pie left by the Golden Egg Layers, haggling over the rotted remains. Many are simply starving as we can see from all those corpses rotting in the streets and fields.

 

Then you look at a panorama of Pattaya in 1995 at the supposed very peak of its prosperity when Sois 7 and 8 were crowded at night (during the high season, with no competition from the vast development at Soi Buakhao) and compare it with with one of Pattaya in 2020. Says it all about Fixed Pie.

 

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"Superfluous establishments."  Really?  Tequila Reef had been around for years, same as Pig & Whistle, and The Butcher's Arms.  PJ's on Soi 7 has recently been given away for free, now, Retox bar is for sale, which is probably Pattaya's number one sports bar, that also has accommodation and meals. 

Yep. Tequila Reef's food had gone downhill years ago, crappy cooking. It was widely panned here with good reason. The others are victims of competition now that their markets have shrunk. Pattaya got overbuilt in lots of ways. Plenty of such establishments remain or have ascended in that narrow market for those who happen to like such--though no one has called any of them "favorite," sorry. Robin Hood, for example, is in the ascendancy despite an inconvenient location. I know: how much longer will it last? Oooh.

 

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Just what bar, gogo or nightclub would have to close for you to think things are not so well with the western tourism industry in Pattaya? 

It wouldn't matter, would it? Whatever, game would be drag out out a lot of whatifs, silly anecdotes (my friend walked in at 2 PM last Wed and didn't see customers lined up at the cashiers!), speculation, phony numbers, and spurious economic assumptions while stereotyping Thai economic management to "prove" the case. No thanks, but I wouldn't be worried anyway. ????

 

 

Please do not post multple quotes on your reply:

 

. Please do not quote multiple nested quotes. Quote only the relevant section that you are discussing. Moderators will snip excessively long nested quotes. 
 

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

"In recent time, can you name any businesses, for example, a shoe shop, that has closed, and become a hospitality establishment?  A genuine new build opening."

Boots on Buakhaow now a bar.

 

Lots of new builds ongoing in Tree Town.

16 hours ago, Leaver said:

Just what bar, gogo or nightclub would have to close for you to think things are not so well with the western tourism industry in Pattaya? 

 

Baby A-Go -Go and Super Baby, many years ago I thought they would survive forever. Peppermint, Crazy House, etc etc , they come and go. Haven't seen a new 'big-style' GGB open though for many years. I would run out of paper if I listed those that seem to be struggling.....

12 hours ago, treetops said:

Boots on Buakhaow now a bar.

 

Lots of new builds ongoing in Tree Town.

Boots became Yes Bar a couple of months back.

 

Still not sure what that is all going to be at the front of Tree Town, but there is an ad. for a Spa at the front.

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Baby A-Go -Go and Super Baby, many years ago I thought they would survive forever. Peppermint, Crazy House, etc etc , they come and go. Haven't seen a new 'big-style' GGB open though for many years. I would run out of paper if I listed those that seem to be struggling.....

Yet the GoGo count still stands at 70.

3 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

Yet the GoGo count still stands at 70.

It does? Where do you find that?

 

17 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It does? Where do you find that?

 

One less after the weekend... Heaven Above will close it's doors. This was a good GGB with great owners but the steps frightened a lot of people! Another one with history of many years as opposed to the regular come and go places. 

A rent increase is cited. 

That area is dying since the Baby GGBs went and the rotating beer bars ground to a halt. 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

One less after the weekend... Heaven Above will close it's doors. This was a good GGB with great owners but the steps frightened a lot of people! Another one with history of many years as opposed to the regular come and go places. 

A rent increase is cited. 

That area is dying since the Baby GGBs went and the rotating beer bars ground to a halt. 

Beat me to it Jacko.

 

18 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It does? Where do you find that?

 

I keep a count.

Looks like Punch & Judy on Soi Regional land is being refurbished.

 

Who is the brave person behind that?

Has the tide turned? .... an Indian Restaurant closes and a Beer Bar opens in its place.

 

On 3/6/2020 at 8:28 AM, TaaSaparot said:

Looks like Punch & Judy on Soi Regional land is being refurbished.

 

 

In the vicinity, seems the same for The Lion Pub.

Sad news Heaven Above a gogo on Walking Street closed last night. Must have been in that place hundreds of times. It really is the end of Pattaya.

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Sad news Heaven Above a gogo on Walking Street closed last night. Must have been in that place hundreds of times. It really is the end of Pattaya.

When it first opened, they did a good job at getting customers to climb those stairs. They had something special then and it was a fun place. A few years later it had lost the spark and become fairly generic in a market full of the same and not worth seeking out. Surprised it lasted this long. Happens to the best of them. Electric Blue, which had a very high profile on WS for a while, comes to mind among others.

3 minutes ago, BigStar said:

When it first opened, they did a good job at getting customers to climb those stairs. They had something special then and it was a fun place. A few years later it had lost the spark and become fairly generic in a market full of the same and not worth seeking out. Surprised it lasted this long. Happens to the best of them. Electric Blue comes to mind among others.

CEB is still there. Heavens Above was a good place, although for me usually early evening and Happy Hour. Their LDs were a bit cheaper than most other places. Just that area, Soi Diamond, like Soi 7 and 8 seems to be dying off. 

Is there any place currently open that provides "entertainment" like X-Zone did ?

The likes of Pig and Whistle died with 7 & 8 years ago. Not only that it was dull boarding depressing. Who wants to look at copper kettles and brass horseshoes sitting in old fashioner booths. It was a prime candidate for Kitchen Nightmares it needed completely updating and revamping. The days of the <deleted>-hole bars are also over. People want more bang for their buck not sitting in some <deleted> falling apart place with holes in the floor, disgusting toilets with a oblong shaped bar in the middle with stools around it staring at the bar girls with loud <deleted> music. Pattaya is changing that's all and if you don't like it then tough that's how it is. The rubbish is being flushed out that's whats imminent. The likes of Retox was all about flipping to retards from day 1.

7 minutes ago, Sid Vicious said:

The likes of Pig and Whistle died with 7 & 8 years ago. Not only that it was dull boarding depressing. Who wants to look at copper kettles and brass horseshoes sitting in old fashioner booths.

True, when it opened (~20 years ago?) it was the only place in town that you could go sit alone and be truly miserable and fit in with the surroundings! ???? 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

CEB is still there. . 

Very different, which is why I specified Walking Street, not Soi 15 off Walking Street. The incarnation that created a splash was down around where Insomnia or somesuch is now.

Rich A-GoGo also closed last night.

 

The GoGo count could be down to 68!