Cash Requirements

[seajae]

why is it that the thai govt is insisting on cash only for expats to maintain their yearly visas here when many of them have houses, land, town houses etc that is worth millions in partnership with their wives/partners. While expats cannot own land they do buy it with their wife/partner(or town house for singles) so in reality they have a good sized collateral way over the 400,000 & 800,000 baht that is required but we are unable to use this for our visas. Immigration really should take this into account when looking at what expats have but then that would be sensible and we all know that is something they are not, whle I am lucky enough to have the required money in the bank, with our other holding we have way over any requirements, I really find it strange they refuse to allow this.

[SteveK]

Why is it that bank statements are acceptable at embassies such as Savannakhet, but at the airport they insist on cash? That's Thai logic. Make things as incomprehensible as possible and maybe they can keep out all those pesky foreigners who want to come in and spend shed-loads of money. Sometimes I think it's a language problem. Thai is so imprecise that even Thai people can have conversations and walk away not knowing what has been said, as happens many times with my wife. Watch the FCCT video on TM30 on YouTube. The senior Thai generals don't even understand the questions. Their answers are unintelligible garbage, after 2 hours nobody has learned anything, Thailand in a nutshell. Nobody knows what is going on, even the people who make the rules.

 

They keep saying that they want to keep bad guys out, but all TM30 does is register an address which almost certainly would be fake for a criminal anyway. I always used to doubt the quotes about Thai IQ but now I believe it. They have no idea how to administer their country. There are many ways of finding criminals, inventing moronic pieces of paper one after another is not the way to do it, but don't tell them that because they think they are really smart despite no other country on the planet using such pathetic measures,

 

I love Thailand and Thai people. But I just cannot understand how on Earth such a large country can be run by people like these. Within a few years tourism is going to be dead. Who is going to come here with the outrageous corruption and xenophobia? I haven't even got into the fact that the artificially high baht makes Thailand more expensive than almost any other holiday destination in the world. Any ex-pats who still have a functioning brain will be moving to a neighboring country and taking their money with them. And good for them because Thailand doesn't want foreigners. Vietnam and Philippines will give you a lot more respect, if you can move there then you can look back at Thailand as it rots from the inside out.

[NCC1701A]

28 minutes ago, seajae said:

why is it that the thai govt is insisting on cash only for expats

because the banks are calling the shots.

all that stuff is already paid for.

[Cryingdick]

Because the land the house sits on isn't yours. 

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, seajae said:

with our other holding we have way over any requirements, I really find it strange they refuse to allow this.

Maybe they know full well that you trying to sell your house to pay a medical bill is a lot harder than walking you to an ATM ?

[Puchaiyank]

Not strange at all...you are an alien in a foreign country...will never gain equal status with the natives and the laws of the land verify that position...

[Youlike]

And why do we have to show funds to get a non-o visa when the married thai wife makes/has plenty of cash.??

 

And why do we have to show it cash at the embassy? If you show them a huge house which is paid off they won't accept it.

[scottiejohn]

11 hours ago, seajae said:

many of them have houses, land, town houses etc that is worth millions in partnership with their wives/partners

And possibly mortgaged up to the hilt leaving no ready cash for emergency expenses.

[jackdd]

11 hours ago, seajae said:

many of them have houses, land, town houses etc that is worth millions in partnership with their wives/partners. While expats cannot own land they do buy it with their wife/partner(or town house for singles) so in reality they have a good sized collateral way over the 400,000 & 800,000 baht that is required but we are unable to use this for our visas.

What if you have a life threatening condition and the hospital demands payment of 500k for a surgery before they will do it. How do you sell the house within a day or two?

I could imagine that in some cases, if the wife has to decide between selling "her" house, which might have a value of 6 million THB for 2 million THB because her husband needs the money within a few days, some wifes might decide to not sell it.

[lopburi3]

9 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe they know full well that you trying to sell your house to pay a medical bill is a lot harder than walking you to an ATM ?

True perhaps in the past - but now they want you to keep all or half the money in account which makes no sense as it was intended to prove you have the funds to live for the extension of stay period.  As one who has excellent medical insurance, but needs to pay upfront for refund, this becomes a nightmare issue as hospital visits increase.    

[mania]

11 hours ago, seajae said:

why is it that the thai govt is insisting on cash only for expats

Sadly the answer is ...Why ask Why  TIT it is what it is & most of the time what it is will not be reasonable or understandable

 

At the end of the day that really is the sad truth & asking why is akin to banging your head on the wall...it will change nothing & it will feel better when you stop

 

I think this is something long term expats either come to grips with or if they stay they will always be angry at TIT mentality

[1FinickyOne]

would you say that your country of birth has easier or tougher requirements for a thai person? 

 

If tougher which is likely then you should probably be thankful and not so angry. 

[pgrahmm]

22 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

would you say that your country of birth has easier or tougher requirements for a thai person? 

 

If tougher which is likely then you should probably be thankful and not so angry. 

It was pretty easy for the visa for the US + once we're there she has no restricted/restrictive policies or check ins.....10 years worth.....

[MarleyMarl]

I don't want to sound "mean" but if you can't afford to put 400-800k into a savings account, you're an undesirable immigrant. So I guess they're using it as a way to try filter migrants?

[4MyEgo]

I see no problem with having the required amount in the bank on time before every extension, I then draw down on it shortly there afterwards.

 

It's security for them, that you can afford to support yourself, in their country, and perhaps pay your medical bills.

 

Think about it, would you want a whole lot of people in your country staying there without having some kind of back up in the bank.

 

Just saying, as for no more Embassy letters being accepted but a few, well if the Embassy's cannot guarantee what they are signing, but also had been charging their farangs for it, I wouldn't accept them either. 

[malt25]

18 hours ago, SteveK said:

Why is it that bank statements are acceptable at embassies such as Savannakhet, but at the airport they insist on cash? That's Thai logic. Make things as incomprehensible as possible and maybe they can keep out all those pesky foreigners who want to come in and spend shed-loads of money. Sometimes I think it's a language problem. Thai is so imprecise that even Thai people can have conversations and walk away not knowing what has been said, as happens many times with my wife. Watch the FCCT video on TM30 on YouTube. The senior Thai generals don't even understand the questions. Their answers are unintelligible garbage, after 2 hours nobody has learned anything, Thailand in a nutshell. Nobody knows what is going on, even the people who make the rules.

 

They keep saying that they want to keep bad guys out, but all TM30 does is register an address which almost certainly would be fake for a criminal anyway. I always used to doubt the quotes about Thai IQ but now I believe it. They have no idea how to administer their country. There are many ways of finding criminals, inventing moronic pieces of paper one after another is not the way to do it, but don't tell them that because they think they are really smart despite no other country on the planet using such pathetic measures,

 

I love Thailand and Thai people. But I just cannot understand how on Earth such a large country can be run by people like these. Within a few years tourism is going to be dead. Who is going to come here with the outrageous corruption and xenophobia? I haven't even got into the fact that the artificially high baht makes Thailand more expensive than almost any other holiday destination in the world. Any ex-pats who still have a functioning brain will be moving to a neighboring country and taking their money with them. And good for them because Thailand doesn't want foreigners. Vietnam and Philippines will give you a lot more respect, if you can move there then you can look back at Thailand as it rots from the inside out.

"That's Thai logic."  Thai + logic = Oxymoron !    To all those who moan, complain & bitch about immigration administration. My philosophy... you don't have to like it, you just have to accept it. Remember, there's always an exit ! 

[Kerryd]

As has been explained many times before, Thailand expects that the money you are required to "prove" is the money you will be living on for the next year.

You know.
The money you will be spending on food. Utilitity bills. Clothing. Rent (or whatever). Gas for the scooter (or money for taxis). Booze. "Entertainment (horizontal and vertical).

You wouldn't be selling off your house/condo/land piece by piece in order to pay your monthly bills now would you ?

That is also why Immigration won't accept things like "401k's", RRSPs and other long-term investments as proof of funds. You don't dip into those things on a weekly basis to pay your bills or because you want to go party next weekend.

Immigration expects you to be able to access the funds literally "on demand".

That is why they will accept things like Fixed Term accounts because you can get the money almost immediately if need be (knowing that you will be taking a hit on the interest).

Initially, it was only required that you prove you had the money on the day you applied for your extension. Immigration assumed that, over the course of the next year, you would spend that money on living expensese (and vet bills for sick buffalo ).

Of course, that was immediately abused by people who couldn't afford to be here in the first place. Eventually Immigration caught on and tightened up the rules. Which of course were then abused again almost immediately leading to another tightening of the rules.
 

The problem lies (in part) with their calculation of what a foreigner "needs" to get by on every year. I think they looked at what the average tourist spending per day was 20 years ago and decided that all (single) foreigners need the same amount in order to live here year round.

Some do. Some need more. A lot get by quite nicely on a lot less.

800k per year works out to just over 2,000 per day (2,190 and change).
20 years ago, 2k per day would be a decent amount for hotel, meals and and evening's "entertainment". However, what the authorities (I assume) didn't take into consideration is that people who live here year-round most likely are not living in hotels, are not eating all their meals in restaurants everyday and are not going to the bars every night.

 

You can (almost) tell what they were thinking when you note that they expect a single guy to need 800k per year, but a married guy (with or without kids) only needs 400k.

Why ?

Because they probably thought (or still think)  that all single guys live in hotels, eat in restaurants and party in bars every day of the year while married guys stay home in Isaan and feed the chickens while their wives are in the rice fields and thus can get by on half of what a single guy needs.

(Oddly enough, the recent changes to the rules basically means that single guys are on the same level as married guys now, except that single guys need to keep an extra 400k in the bank ALL year now instead of spending it on living expenses as was previously expected).

The income requirement also helps to weed out all the "beach bums" who try to flock to places where they hope to be able to live (for free) on the beach and survive by begging for handouts from the locals and tourists. 
If they could figure out a way to stay here without having any money, you'd be tripping over them all over every city in the country.

And there are enough people already running "buy half my bar" scams on wide-eyed, gullible tourists. Imagine all the "buy a part share in my condo so you can stay in Thailand forever with no money" scams that would crop up within days (hours) of any change that let people use property as proof of "sufficient funds". Conniving expats and "visa agents" would be all over that in a heartbeat !

I just checked Canadian Immigration to see what the "retirement" requirements are and guess what ? They don't even have a category for that ! If you want to stay in Canada long term, you need to be "sponsored" and have someone guarantee you for up to 10 years so that you won't try jumping onto the country's welfare system as soon as you get there. I'm trying to find out what the "reporting" requirements are but they seem to keep those hidden away (problably to avoid flak for not enforcing any of the requirements).

There is a "self employed" category, but it only applies to artists, musicians and athletes and you have to prove "sustainability" (in other words, the ability to support yourself through your profession). There are other categories for skilled workers and caregivers too but nothing for "thrice divorced bar bums with little or no money or means of support". No wonder so many simply tear up their ID and go the "refugee" route instead. Hell, the government will even pay for lawyers so you can sue the government if they turn down your refugee claim !

 

[chilly07]

Very irritating when individual's say just put the funds in the bank and forget about them. Why should we tie up our hard won resources and if an emergency arises as they always will be forced to leave Thailand where we have significant non liquid investment such as property and responsibilities such as a family to support.

Agents seem to have no difficulty managing the financials for extensions so accepting the deposit requirements forced on us due to Embassies inability to deal with TI and TI's coping with the fallout is sufficiently irritating without enduring crass statements that you shouldn't live in Thailand if you can't afford to invest 800k in the Thai banking system!

Same applies to those who say the same about compulsory medical cover for all being an acceptable price for living in Thailand a further 100k pa invested with little hope of a return.

[emptypockets]

3 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Very irritating when individual's say just put the funds in the bank and forget about them. Why should we tie up our hard won resources and if an emergency arises as they always will be forced to leave Thailand where we have significant non liquid investment such as property and responsibilities such as a family to support.

Agents seem to have no difficulty managing the financials for extensions so accepting the deposit requirements forced on us due to Embassies inability to deal with TI and TI's coping with the fallout is sufficiently irritating without enduring crass statements that you shouldn't live in Thailand if you can't afford to invest 800k in the Thai banking system!

Same applies to those who say the same about compulsory medical cover for all being an acceptable price for living in Thailand a further 100k pa invested with little hope of a return.

You answered your own question. Use an agent if you think that is sustainable in the long run.

But I wouldn't be surprised if there was some random bank book checking some time in the future to see if a retired guy still has 400k in the bank, using an agent or not.

Money in a Thai bank is returning better interest rates than most countries as far as I'm aware so it's not necessarily a bad thing to do. The guys who had the foresight to put there hard earned in the Thai system a few years ago a laughing all the way to the …...errrrr…..bank on exchange rate gains alone.

 

As a previous poster said stop stressing and enjoy life, nothing is going to change by beating yourself up about it. If it gets really too stressful then follow the (apparently hundreds/thousands) of expats to Cambodia or the Philippines or some other far worse place than Thailand.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

would you say that your country of birth has easier or tougher requirements for a thai person? 

 

If tougher which is likely then you should probably be thankful and not so angry. 

Yes, it seems that TV needs to open a Onanism and Self Flagellation forum  for the daily rants about basically the same things over and over again. 

 

 

[DiDiChok]

I don't think that tourism will be harmed by the offbeat regulations.  It's part of the attraction of the place to me.  My opinion is that the Thais just don't like anything too efficient like computers that never forget anything.  Paperwork is good because things can get lost easily.  The military is ingrained into society and fits in so well with their mentality that bows to authority, that everyone agrees with everything while anyone is looking.  They all know that later on, you can simply carry on as you did before whatever crackpot idea got introduced.  It's lovely.  Think 'Prathet Thai' - Land of the free.

 

Problems start for us because of the farang mentality that requires 'rules to live by'.  Another problem comes from our mentality that says that when caught doing something wrong, you have to stop doing it.  So when we're stopped for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, we don't understand that once your details have been taken you can go on your way.  Thais have a system that 'nudges' you towards compliance - something that is only now being recognised as leading edge thinking in the west because it works.  Having a system that tries to 'fine' or to 'imprison' society's way out of a problem only makes more problems and can never work in countries that have low incomes.

 

So relax, and say to yourself "It's only a game, and some people have no sense of humour".  As soon as you begin to disagree with that, you've lost the plot and your sense of humour.

[MartiniMan]

To ensure you can financially not become a burden on the country as there is no wellfare state and this is an emerging market so it helps to ensure while you stay your cash is essentially in a bond with the bank and they can use that for interim liquidity as they know you must hold it for 3 months or more to meet the requirement

It also keeps the riff raff out and trust me there is plenty of them about 

When people have drunk it all and partied it away they will do anything to keep the party going - time to go home and work again or get a job here either way you cannot just beg it doesnt help anyone especially yourself 

The house etc its all good you can just refinance that and use the capital for your visa but that is an illiquid asset so you must arrange liquid capital yourself

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

would you say that your country of birth has easier or tougher requirements for a thai person? 

 

If tougher which is likely then you should probably be thankful and not so angry. 

Allowing that we are addressing living inside the country after having been granted a Visa allowing the individual an annual stay?

[moe666]

O geez everyone is whining and crying about stuff you have no control over. Why, this or why that well do not why and see how many extensions of stay you get. 

[digger70]

1 hour ago, MarleyMarl said:

I don't want to sound "mean" but if you can't afford to put 400-800k into a savings account, you're an undesirable immigrant. So I guess they're using it as a way to try filter migrants?

So we have the 800k in the bank Term deposit All the time , The <deleted> is if one needs some money for a special reason maybe  (Hospital) then one hasn't got enough money in the bank for the next extension,,, Remember what they say 800K for 5 Months and the other 7 Months 400K .   I say Utterly insane it doesn't make sense but this is Thailand ,if one compares Thailand to the rest of the world Not much makes sense .One must have other savings to make up for the the money that we can't use.  ????

[owenm]

If a single retiree, who maybe asset rich, owning a 4-6 mill Mc Mansion, (less the land) a modern car, one or two motorbikes etc. but solely reliant on their pension for day to do living expenses, is then caught short.. And each extension is only for 12 mths with no future guarantee if further changes are implemented to weed out more and more expats. 

 

How many are receiving an OAP from their home countries that exceed the min. of 65k per month? 

I know that a typical Aussie, who is 100% solely reliant on their pension for retirement, is only receiving about 37k monthly.. And still caught short for married visa extension of 40k..

 

How much is the OAP for UK, Canada, US and various European countries? I'm sure many are under the min 65k per month unless they also have a private fund.. 

 

Now that many IOs won't accept combo method, it means you have to have 400/800k in the bank, and no ifs or buts.. Plus having to report any movements 24/7 with TM30..

 

A Thai could move to Australia as a married or defacto to a citizen and have temp residency within a couple of months, and PR within 2 years. They have immediate access to free healthcare under Medicare, can work in any job they are qualified for, can purchase a house and land without restrictions, and don't have reporting requirements for their every move, holiday, weekend away or overseas trip.. 

Then they can become a citizen with an Australian passport within 5 years.

 

Thailand is becoming more repressive than North Korea, China or Zimbabwe with their dislike for farang retirees living in their country, wanting to know their every move, and having to prove an income of more than is reasonably needed to live here comfortably.. 

 

Ah, I think my door bell rung.. Five police to check my passport and whether I've filed my TM30.. 5556..

[madmen]

4 minutes ago, owenm said:

Thai could move to Australia as a married or defacto to a citizen and have temp residency within a couple of months, and PR within 2 years. They have immediate access to free healthcare under Medicare, can work in any job they are qualified for, can purchase a house and land without restrictions, and don't have reporting requirements for their every move, holiday, weekend away or overseas trip.. 

Yes but what all up costs. My understanding is its not cheap to apply and no refunds if refused

[Acharn]

Have you ever read Parkinson's Law? It's partly a matter of ideology and partly a matter of office politics. The ideology goes back to Field Marshall Phibunsongkhram. Back in the late '30s he led a fascist faction in the revolutionary party. Very racist, very nationalistic. They claimed lands that had once been controlled by the Kingdom of Siam but had been ceded to foreigners, France and England, should be restored to Thailand. This was the reason the the Land Law of 1942, which codified that foreignerscould not own land in Thailand. People who believed in this ideology were still in powerful positions in 1976. Fast forward, Thaksin's first Minister of the Interior was a leader of the "church wing" of the Phalang Dhamma Party, and anti-foreigner, so the sentiment has never gone away. Now, the Parkinson's Law part. In the bureaucracy one way to gain promotion is to propose new policies that get adopted and require more people to administer. You can then be put in charge of those people and, Voila!, you have to be promoted because you are in charge of more people. Where do you think the TM30 requirement came from? Also, by the way, probably the vast majority of long-term foreign residents don't have large assets.

[rascalman]

Do not understand : why good typically old are thrown out? 

Many of us have not asked for anything, spending lots of money, behaving and good citizens. 

Do not get it at all……?  FIX THIS PLEASE NOW. 

 

[AboutThaim]

2 hours ago, MarleyMarl said:

I don't want to sound "mean" but if you can't afford to put 400-800k into a savings account, you're an undesirable immigrant. So I guess they're using it as a way to try filter migrants?

Well i suppose that makes me an undesirable non-immigrant on my third OA Non Immigrant visa that will give me another two years here without putting more than spending money into my Thai bank accounts.  I tend to agree with the OP, having invested in infrastructure and amenities for my gf and her family to the tune of hundreds of thousands of baht that don't count for anything with the visa process.  I was going to take my money with me when I cark it but i believe the the heavenly exchange rate is hellishly low. 555