High Speed train: Bangkok to Pattaya in less than 45 minutes after "historic" deal

[Estrada]

16 hours ago, johnarth said:

who is going to do the concrete work? if Thais are going to do it no one is going to use the train and who is going to drive the trains? think the first year should be free maybe all the free plane hoppers should use it first

Italian Thai will do the civils (inc. concrete work) They have already built much of the current Bangkok elevated mass transit system including the BTS which has been operating for the last 20 years. We have no problem with Thai Engineers within Ital-Thai or Ch. Karnchang.

[fforest1]

9 hours ago, cheapcanuck said:

Let do simple logistics. Lets say train is at the top of efficiency and running by the numbers. With each stop being approximately 3 min each. That leaves 18 min travel time. Now factor in acceleration (30 sec) and deceleration (30 sec) of the train at each stop. That brings that 18 min to 13.5 min travel time.

Based on that I call BS for the travel time of 45 min end to end.

You make a good point here.....Also considering the high speed trains WILL NOT be running at full speed and I think we are looking at some where around a hour plus X number of minutes....

 

Also Airports=Luggage and Luggage=time....

 

Folks how ever you want to cut it the train WILL NOT be any huge time saver over a bus....

Edited October 27, 2019 by fforest1

[Estrada]

7 hours ago, cheapcanuck said:

But it's not a direct route. There are 4 stops between Makkasan and Pattaya. Time of 45 would be very tight if not impossible. I stick to my math and call B S.

Rubbish. Primarily, we designed it as an airport to airport system. Passengers from Suvarnabhumi Airport will go downstairs to the train station and catch the High Speed Train to Pattaya (45 Minutes) or to go to Donmuang to catch a domestic flight or to central Bangkok.

[fforest1]

15 hours ago, Whip said:

Most Thais can't afford it.

Thats what I said about Starbucks....

[fforest1]

I am placing my bet that Hopewell will be finished before the high speed train... 

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

So, if it takes 45 minutes to get to the station, another 1 hour to buy tickets and wait for the next train, what time have you saved?

So using your unorthodox stretch of travel logic, airlines should not quote flight times only but should state the travel time to/from airports, check-in, security and baggage claim time as well?

[Dice Man]

On 10/25/2019 at 3:19 PM, KhunBENQ said:

45 min.

After you needed an hour in the taxi to reach the station.

6 stops as well...average speed need 900kms per hour

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, fforest1 said:

You make a good point here.....Also considering the high speed trains WILL NOT be running at full speed and I think we are looking at some where around a hour plus X number of minutes....

 

Also Airports=Luggage and Luggage=time....

 

Folks how ever you want to cut it the train WILL NOT be any huge time saver over a bus....

So if you get the bus you don't have to wait for your luggage at the airport?  I never knew that.

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

So using your unorthodox stretch of travel logic, airlines should not quote flight times only but should state the travel time to/from airports, check-in, security and baggage claim time as well?

Quote

  22 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

So, if it takes 45 minutes to get to the station, another 1 hour to buy tickets and wait for the next train, what time have you saved?

If you live two hours from the station, you (somehow) take an hour to buy a ticket, you decide to let the first train go because you don't like the look of it, then you decide to have lunch for an hour and a half, you then leave your ticket behind in the restaurant and have to buy another one (another hour for that according to Scoutman), then you get the train, what time have you saved?  Eh?? EH????  This whole train thing is ridiculous and you can clearly see it's going to take several hours longer than the bus (assuming you lived in the bus station, you knew how to queue and buy a ticket, you liked the look of the first bus, and you didn't decide to have a leisurely lunch or lose your ticket).

Waste of money. 

[Lakegeneve]

18 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding things this is exactly what they are doing.  The existing ARL gets extended through Bang Sue and up to DMK. Then from Suvarnabhumi it gets built out to Utapao. Between DMK and BKK it is only 160kmh. Only after BKK will it go up to 250kmh. 

 

So essentially this is an extended ARL with different trains. Our more likely with additional trains - I guess the existing service will continue and these will just use the same line. 

 

At least that's my understanding, I could be wrong. @Crossy would surely know. 

As I believe that I mentioned on the New Skytrain thread, the ARL will need to shut down and the whole line upgraded with new track and signalling which will allow 200km+ operation. (The cheap, defective chinese rail needs to replaced soon anyway)

 

Note: don't forget that the SRT still plans to extend the SRT Light Red line right alongside the ARL to Hua Mark with a new viaduct and new stations. It essentially duplicates the Cityline and whilst it was silly before it could now make some sense if Cityline services were moved to the Light Red line. In fact, the easiest solution here is to build a new express viaduct for the Eastern HSR line and just use the existing ARL viaduct and stations for the SRT Dark Red line (convert the gauge to narrow). The problem is that none of these projects using the same right of way are co-ordinated or integrated.

 

For the Bang Sue to DMK section there will be a delay while a common use viaduct is designed with integration of the NE HSR line (and possible Northern HSR line). There are also some right of way and land access issues here to resolve and the available space is tight in some places given the SRT Dark red line alignment.

 

The Phaya Thai to DMK section might be delayed as the design past the palace also stipulates that it needs to be underground for that sectioion but they might find another solution. The Lat Krabang to U-Tapao section is all set with no land issues so they will start construction on this section first.

 

The original plan was to do the Phaya Thai to DMK section first to extend the ARL before opening the full line. 

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

If you live two hours from the station, you (somehow) take an hour to buy a ticket, you decide to let the first train go because you don't like the look of it, then you decide to have lunch for an hour and a half, you then leave your ticket behind in the restaurant and have to buy another one (another hour for that according to Scoutman), then you get the train, what time have you saved?  Eh?? EH????  This whole train thing is ridiculous and you can clearly see it's going to take several hours longer than the bus (assuming you lived in the bus station, you knew how to queue and buy a ticket, you liked the look of the first bus, and you didn't decide to have a leisurely lunch or lose your ticket).

Waste of money. 

I agree.....Who knows who will be on the train? terrorist? drug dealers? romance scammers?.......I am not taking any chances.....I will be sticking to the bus..... 

[gimo]

18 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

The excellent   organised taxi queue system means you never have dodgy taxi problems at Survanapooni airport anymore but anyway the new railway will be great   faster, cheaper and no worries about traffic jams when departing.

   Last time I used the taxi queue system at Swampy , it was disorganized and the taxi driver that had my number in the queue insisted that I go with his friend who had a slightly larger car ( I only had one medium sized bag ) . Despite him promising me I wouldn't be charged any more than normal , it soon became obvious that his meter was operating at a much higher rate than usual.  He said I shouldn't complain because I had enough money for the plane fare to Thailand etc etc . It was a very unpleasant experience . Since then I've been fortunate enough to have been picked up my wife's friends . I hope the new train eventuates and we don't have any problems with it.

[josephbloggs]

5 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

As I believe that I mentioned on the New Skytrain thread, the ARL will need to shut down and the whole line upgraded with new track and signalling which will allow 200km+ operation. (The cheap, defective chinese rail needs to replaced soon anyway)

 

Note: don't forget that the SRT still plans to extend the SRT Light Red line right alongside the ARL to Hua Mark with a new viaduct and new stations. It essentially duplicates the Cityline and whilst it was silly before it could now make some sense if Cityline services were moved to the Light Red line. In fact, the easiest solution here is to build a new express viaduct for the Eastern HSR line and just use the existing ARL viaduct and stations for the SRT Dark Red line (convert the gauge to narrow). The problem is that none of these projects using the same right of way are co-ordinated or integrated.

 

For the Bang Sue to DMK section there will be a delay while a common use viaduct is designed with integration of the NE HSR line (and possible Northern HSR line). There are also some right of way and land access issues here to resolve and the available space is tight in some places given the SRT Dark red line alignment.

 

The Phaya Thai to DMK section might be delayed as the design past the palace also stipulates that it needs to be underground for that sectioion but they might find another solution. The Lat Krabang to U-Tapao section is all set with no land issues so they will start construction on this section first.

 

The original plan was to do the Phaya Thai to DMK section first to extend the ARL before opening the full line. 

Thanks for the detailed information.  Seems incredible that they plan to build a new viaduct alongside the existing one, although, as you say, it might (by fluke) end up working given that the ARL would need to be shut down for a long period I assume.

Then there's the question of space.  The ARL viaduct passes through some pretty tight gaps and runs alongside a road for a good chunk of the journey.  I don't really understand how they will fit another viaduct in, especially with stations.

 

Bizarre.

[sungod]

On 10/26/2019 at 2:09 AM, gk10002000 said:

The current bus from BKK to Pattaya takes just over 90 minutes.  That is fast enough.  Spending billions for 45 minutes is a poor return on the investment.

 

I use the bus a fair bit, from BKK to Pattaya never takes 90 minutes, that's as believable as this train taking 45mins.

 

[Sunderland]

How do they reach a figure of 147,000 passengers a day?

That would require 147 trains to carry 1,000 passengers every day.  That's roughly 6 trains per hour if it runs 24 hours a day, or one train every 10 minutes. This is not the bullet train between Tokyo and Osaka. This is a train from Bangkok to Pattaya/Utapao/Rayong.

It is more likely you will get passenger numbers like this between Don Muang, Bangkok and Suvarnibhumi if almost every domestic and international passenger used the train every time they went to or from the airport, which they won't.

[Chelseafan]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:46 PM, PingRoundTheWorld said:

147,000 passengers a day?? Would love to hear the math on that one. Not even possible unless the trains had massive capacity and ran VERY frequently.

Exactly. In 2017 Eurostar carried 10 million passengers per year or 27,397 per day.  They're deluded...

 

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

Exactly. In 2017 Eurostar carried 10 million passengers per year or 27,397 per day.  They're deluded...

 

 

It does seem high on the face of it, but it is not just passengers between BKK and Pattaya, they'll be counting all the passengers using the system, including those connecting between BKK and DMK which would be a lot.

Consider that the current ARL has a ridership of about 75,000 per day and it doesn't even connect the two airports.  Look at it that way and 147,000 doesn't seem far fetched.

Whether that is the right way to look at it or not is debatable, but just stepping back and applying a bit of logic to it it kind of calculates.  But so many people just immediately get incredulous or irate. 

 

Then again I might be wrong and they are deluded, but CP are no mugs and have been a lot more successful in business than any one of us on this forum.

[Blue bruce]

It will be  nice if it ever gets built. I have my doubts.

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

It does seem high on the face of it, but it is not just passengers between BKK and Pattaya, they'll be counting all the passengers using the system, including those connecting between BKK and DMK which would be a lot.

Consider that the current ARL has a ridership of about 75,000 per day and it doesn't even connect the two airports.  Look at it that way and 147,000 doesn't seem far fetched.

Whether that is the right way to look at it or not is debatable, but just stepping back and applying a bit of logic to it it kind of calculates.  But so many people just immediately get incredulous or irate. 

 

Then again I might be wrong and they are deluded, but CP are no mugs and have been a lot more successful in business than any one of us on this forum.

I gave some thought before I posted previously and saw 70,000 passengers quoted on the wiki page (with no reference to where this figure came from). The authorities predicted that the line would carry 95,000 passengers on opening but it carried less than half that figure at 40,000. It took 3 years before it managed to get to current levels.

 

I have no idea why they think this new line (which presumably will split some passenger volumes from the existing line) would carry over double the current volume. It is undoubtedly going to be more expensive hopping between stations in Bangkok versus the current route and whilst I understand that the hi-speed line will have a further reach along the Eastern Seaboard, how many Thai's are really going to be traveling en mass to those stations daily ?

 

Adding DMK may improve the current volume of passengers but I still think 147,000 is way to high.

 

Am I right in saying that the ARL runs at a loss ?

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Chelseafan

[Monkeyrobot]

So two people can get a aircon cab 1200B -600 each door to door in 2 hours , by the time you go to the railway station buy the ticket catch the train then get a cab at the other end is it at all worth it??? I think also the cab fares will come down once it’s in operation. 

[Khun Tae]

Its an option better than nothing, 500 Baht x 4 in car will be 2000 Baht. Driving a family car certainly costs less. 

[NicoBKK]

On 10/25/2019 at 3:07 PM, Chazar said:

most Thais  wont be using it  then

Indeed, as rare to see a Thai in a hurry (as long as not in own's car) and minivan should still be around 100 THB

[MRToMRT]

As a side note, the Bang Su central station (Mor chit area) is nearing completion and its one of the biggest buildings I have ever seen in Thailand, absolutely huge. 

[DrTuner]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:49 AM, NanLaew said:

So using your unorthodox stretch of travel logic, airlines should not quote flight times only but should state the travel time to/from airports, check-in, security and baggage claim time as well?

That would be pretty good. Have a staff member go back and forth all day to get current speed and take road travel from Google. 

 

The result would very likely be obvious: For trips under 500km it's faster not to fly. Here's where trains rule - if you can get them running and maintained and place the stations somewhere accessible. All three are going to be hard to achieve in Thailand. 

[chivo]

On 10/25/2019 at 11:53 PM, josephbloggs said:

You mean like they did with the buses?  Or the airport train?  Or the BTS?

And unless they have a way to get their cars up on to the elevated tracks they are going to struggle.

Actually the Tuk Tuk mafia did block busses in Phuket at one point. 

As for the logistics of how that happens if this pattaya train were to be elevated, the comment was meant more figuratively, asking how opposing interests might physically try to prevent the option. 

[Yadon Toploy]

13 minutes ago, chivo said:

Actually the Tuk Tuk mafia did block busses in Phuket at one point. 

As for the logistics of how that happens if this pattaya train were to be elevated, the comment was meant more figuratively, asking how opposing interests might physically try to prevent the option. 

A grenade thrown through the office door has got the message across in the past.

[asean]

9 stops at 5 minutes a stop is 45 minutes

[Baxer]

1 hour ago, asean said:

9 stops at 5 minutes a stop is 45 minutes

And 9 stops at 1 minute is 9 minutes.

[5633572526]

On 10/25/2019 at 3:15 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Great news. The Thai Bangkokians will be using it a lot. I really look forward to this service.

So I will have to get a taxi to swampy to catch the train 4 to 500 baht.

then pay 500 baht to ride the train only to be left stranded at utapao??

think I will stick with the 23 baht bts ride to ekkamai and the 119 baht air conditioned bus that takes me right into Pattaya.

[EVENKEEL]

Get ready for property values to soar near Utapao.