In Trump-Nixon impeachment comparison, Pelosi raises specter of resignation

[Jingthing]

Bill Maher put it best (to paraphrase):

 

Nixon -- I am not a crook!

 

45 -- I am a crook. SO WHAT!?!

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bill Maher put it best (to paraphrase):

 

Nixon -- I am not a crook!

 

45 -- I am a crook. SO WHAT!?!

Well, Clinton got impeached for lying so maybe he's onto something.

 

[joecoolfrog]

12 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I wouldn't tattoo anyone's name on my forehead. What a strange thing to say.

For good reasons it takes 2/3 vote in the Senate to remove a President from office. Why is that? So to prevent the Impeachment process from simply being a partisan tool for removing a President from Office without justification. 

In the case of Nixon their was enough bi-partisan support to convict, so to save face he resigned.

In this case, there is no impeachable offense yet defined. Personally, I know exactly what is going on. This is still an attempt to illegally remove a President. It's dirty, unforgivable, and will end badly for this ruthless bunch of seditionist pigs. This stench filled Communist loving, war-mongering filthy mob of scumbag rats will end soon in a vast dump of indictments coming soon... an embarassing episode of American history from a the biggest crybabies ever to exist in the USA, "whah whah the President isn't polite" Get over it!

It appears that not just the facts are simple !

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

And what came out? This. Donald Trump became aware of Democrat National Committee sending operatives to Ukraine to interfere in the US Election and the Ukrainian election as well, and to request certain people NOT be investigated, and the reason in addition to hurting Trump was that Joe Biden's son was on the board of Burisma during the 2016 election, and to investigate Joe Biden's son at this time would have been extremely detrimental to the Democrat party. So let's just look on the face of this. Biden's son has no gas or oil experience. He has no Ukraine background at all. Does not speak Ukrainian. He had within less then one year previous loss a United States Navy Officer Commision because he tested positive for cocaine. So less then a year later, the OBama administration wants Ukraine to open the gas pump to thwart the Russians. So Burisma headed by a someone under investigation by the Ukranians gets Hunter Biden on the board. What was Burisma under investigation for? The guy was buying all the gas production/exloration rights in Ukraine for himself - after being the equivelent Government person in charge of such things. Kind of like a guy who was in charge of the National parks in the USA becoming a civilian and selling himself national park tracts  for oil exploration. Pretty dirty right? SO anyway Hunter Biden winds up on the board. WHY? Well he was collecting $85,000 USD a month to sit on a board....... and collect money. 

 

Trump finds out about this, and asks in this phone call, for the Ukranian President to "Look into it" and find out what has been happening. Why did Trump let go the Ambassador to Ukraine? She had spoke in public against certain Ukranian politicians, that is a no no. She also was pushing to NOT investigate Biden. 

 

SO there you have it. Now on the face of it...I mean just looking at superficially - it seems worth looking into and it goes far far deeper then that. My own opinion as a 61 year old American retired Veteran is that this is the largest case of Corruption I have ever seen in my life.  Peace everyone! Please don't call me a liar etc. Just state your own case separate from mine, and carry on. Opinions here matter not. ALl that matters to me right now is that indictments come down - as the Attorney General and US attorneys are looking into the origins of this right now, I believe that for a healing to take place in the USA those who have committed these acts of sedition need to go to prison. And this includes former heads of FBI/CIA/STate and more.

 

I can't be bothered to address most of the rest of the falsehod and tendentious unbacked conspiracy minded material you offer here. Still, on a happier note, we may possibly have an agreement about indictments about to take place via possible indictments of Americans engaged in criminal activity in the Ukraine

Feds Investigating Giuliani for Financial Dealings Tied to Ukraine Scandal

 

Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer, is being investigated by federal prosecutors for possible campaign finance violations and a failure to register as a foreign agent as part of an active investigation into his financial dealings, according to three U.S. officials.

The probe of Giuliani, which one official said could also include possible charges on violating laws against bribing foreign officials or conspiracy, presents a serious threat to Trump’s presidency from a man that former national security adviser John Bolton has called a “hand grenade.”

A second official said Giuliani’s activities raise counterintelligence concerns as well, although there probably wouldn’t be a criminal charge related to that.

https://fortune.com/2019/11/15/rudy-giuliani-ukraine-financial-dealings-feds-investigating-ukraine-scandal/

Prosecutors in Giuliani investigation interested in talking to Ukrainian energy company

 

Federal prosecutors in New York who are investigating Rudy Giuliani are seeking to interview people with knowledge of Ukraine's state-run oil-and-gas company, Naftogaz, according to two people familiar with the matter, suggesting investigators have opened a line of inquiry into whether Giuliani and his associates sought to secure energy deals by asserting influence on the company.

Prosecutors in the Southern District of New York have contacted people associated with the company in recent weeks, said the sources, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter...

Naftogaz stands at the center of an effort by Giuliani associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, and their purported natural-gas company, Global Energy Producers, to replace Naftogaz's chief executive officer with someone who would be more beneficial to their own business interests earlier this year.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politics/rudy-giuliani-naftogaz-ukraine-parnas-fruman/index.html

Among their other disgraceful antics, Parnas and Fruman, along with Giuliani, are the one who spearheaded the case against Ambassador Yanonovitch. But not because she was in the way of their corrupt ambitions. Heaven forfend!

[bristolboy]

34 minutes ago, rabas said:

DO you mean the Southern Democrats?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats

Yes because the southern branch of the Democratic party today holds the same positions as it did

50 years ago. That why all the Deep South States voted for the Republican candidate, Barry Goldwater in 1964. Not because he voted against the Civil Rights Bill of 1963, but because they wanted to send a message to Lyndon Johnson that he hadn't done enough to advance the civil rights of African-Americans living in the south. And that's why for most of the time subsequent to that, starting with Nixon's Southern Strategy, they have become largely Republican. Because they hate the fact that Democrats haven't done enough to advance the cause of civil rights.

[joecoolfrog]

3 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

I talk a lot about politics in real life with people from all over but never has a person said anything like this to my face (and I wouldn't recommend anyone to go out and try it on) yet on this forum people say things like this with immunity and say it constantly, knowing full well that its simply not true and nothing more than an outright insult. 

Lying and insulting on social media , as a Trump fan I would expect you to be in favour !

That aside , do stop being so precious , majority does not indicate 100% so just consider yourself an exception from the Trumpster morons .

[joecoolfrog]

3 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

You don't disavow your values. I would never suggest that. Instead, you listen to their values and engage with them on the places where you both agree. Historically, this is called a canon. Most of us are familiar with "literary canon", a group of books which everyone should read so they have a place to begin discussions. But canon applies to other areas as well, such as politics and ethics.  Having  established a canon, you can then expand and start to see where your values diverge.  And then address those areas, so that the other side doesn't feel that they need to resort to a psycopath and a demagogue in order to be heard.

 

The American public has for too long forgotten how to speak to each other.  If the other issues were addressed, everyone would agree that Trump is not good. But right now, Trump supporters feel they have to stoop to this level just to get their concerns addressed. Show them instead that there is another way. Trump is just a symptom, not the disease. But be warned. You are going to need to make concessions as well, and grant them the courtesy to respect their feelings on divergent issues.

 

If you do this, you'll find Trump supporters aren't bad people. They just have different concerns than you. And if you respect their values, they are more than likely to respect yours as well. If we all did this, there would be no division for a demagogue like Trump to exploit.

 

 

This is all well and fine except , on a daily basis , Trump does the exact opposite and encourages his supporters to ape him.

However polarised the US was before Trump , it has now worsened considerably, and sadly it was by design.

 

 

[WalkingOrders]

7 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

This is all well and fine except , on a daily basis , Trump does the exact opposite and encourages his supporters to ape him.

However polarised the US was before Trump , it has now worsened considerably, and sadly it was by design.

 

 

I think I have layed out perfectly the reasons for polarization in the USA. It will end only with indictments and prison terms for those who have conspired against the President. Short of that - no justice will have been done. It's beyond reconciliation by anything other then the legal system of the United States of America

[WalkingOrders]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You clearly don't know the history of these statues. The were erected in the 20th century as part of a movement to recast the Civil War as being about States Rights, not slavery. A noble failure, not treason. 

And I gotta love this one:

"To support the statues not being removed is not racist. You have to be from the South to understand that. "

One additional qualification to that special understanding you allude to: most likely, you're gonna be white.

 

"This portion of the Country has already paid their price for slavery."

It would seem that the price for treason should be considerably steeper.

 

Bristol boy, you are talking to a 61 one year old American who served 20 years in the US Navy, was a Chief Petty officer and has a Degree in Political Science. Have to say that I object to someone who runs to wikipedia and then posts. I am fully aware of the history of these statues. They are all over the south. As I said the removal of historical statues serves no good purpose. Americans are tied to their families and their family histories, for good or worse.  Again, try to argue your point without begining with depreciating remark to attempt to raise the bar of your intelligence over the person you are having a conversation with. How much time have you spent in the American South? What State are you from?

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

You put way more effort into what I know will be met with noting but mockery. 

In my case concern rather than mockery , in my opinion he is deranged.

[riclag]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

The top Democrat in Congress told reporters last week that Trump's pressure on Ukraine to investigate one of his potential opponents in the 2020 election "makes what Nixon did look almost small."

 No Pressure,No Push and no blackmail reiterated more than once by the guy who is suppose to be the victim! The POTUS says time and time again this is another hoax perpetrated by the dems and their propaganda machine.

Thank god there is a senate so designed over 200 years ago to put these attacks by a unruly one sided party to unseat a POTUS in check!

 

 

[rgraham]

Who makes these tales up? He is running for another term.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.   Continue and face a suspension.  

 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

No Pressure,No Push and no blackmail reiterated more than once by the guy who is supposed to be the victim!

The victimes are the American people. and we have not said anything of the short yet.

[sirineou]

32 minutes ago, sirineou said:

2 hours ago, riclag said:

No Pressure,No Push and no blackmail reiterated more than once by the guy who is supposed to be the victim!

The victimes are the American people. and we have not said anything of the short yet.

Yea I know, you are confused. No surprise there, in fact that's exactly what I said above.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

I mean, what the president did was so much worse than even what Richard Nixon did, that at some point Richard Nixon cared about the country enough to recognise that this could not continue," Pelosi said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Oh, she'd love him to give up, but ain't gonna happen.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Monomial said:

Trump is just a symptom, not the disease.

Unfortunately Trump haters don't seem to understand that Trump was not elected by preference, but because the alternative was unacceptable to so many in middle America. They'd had enough and were not going to take it any more.

[Tug]

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unfortunately Trump haters don't seem to understand that Trump was not elected by preference, but because the alternative was unacceptable to so many in middle America. They'd had enough and were not going to take it any more.

Ahhhh you do know he lost the popular vote by a large margin and squeeked by in the electoral college all that against a very unpopular woman right???

[Thainesss]

15 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ahhhh you do know he lost the popular vote by a large margin and squeeked by in the electoral college all that against a very unpopular woman right???

 

So? He still won yet you guys seem to think that's everyone elses fault but your own. 

[Tug]

Just who are you guys?ive voted both sides of the isle before but believe me I will never vote for someone infected by trump he’s a wanna be mobster and a tool of Putin imo I don’t think he is a straight up traitor but more the usefull idiot for putin the dude is a fiasco 

[rabas]

29 minutes ago, Tug said:

Just who are you guys?ive voted both sides of the isle before but believe me I will never vote for someone infected by trump he’s a wanna be mobster and a tool of Putin imo I don’t think he is a straight up traitor but more the usefull idiot for putin the dude is a fiasco 

We are the American people.

[bristolboy]

31 minutes ago, rabas said:

We are the American people.

Not even Trump claimed that everyone who voted for him was an illegal alien. You've really raised the bar!

[Tug]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

We are the American people.

So am I that’s why I don’t understand why (some) American people back a draft dodging pow insulting con man crackpot and if you say he’s rich well if I got 400 million from daddy I’d be wealthy as well lol na trump is a fiasco

[Thainesss]

Just now, Tug said:

So am I that’s why I don’t understand why (some) American people back a draft dodging pow insulting con man crackpot and if you say he’s rich well if I got 400 million from daddy I’d be wealthy as well lol na trump is a fiasco

 

Clinton was a "draft dodger" and an adulterer and nobody seems to give a sh*t. 

[Eric Loh]

21 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Clinton was a "draft dodger" and an adulterer and nobody seems to give a sh*t. 

He was impeached for offenses less serious than Trump. Using the comparison as a yardstick, Trump should be charged for treason 

[rabas]

54 minutes ago, Tug said:

So am I that’s why I don’t understand why (some) American people back a draft dodging pow insulting con man crackpot and if you say he’s rich well if I got 400 million from daddy I’d be wealthy as well lol na trump is a fiasco

That's what I meant by We. Us, all the people.

 

But when people say they 'don't understand' it should always be taken literally. It does not imply anything about others. It only means that you have homework, assuming you want to understand.

 

BTW, in my own view America is destined to become the greatest nation ever when we finally integrate our vast cultural wealth into one harmonious union of peoples from all nations and cultures. Independent and united as is our current union of states. That, more than all its inventiveness will give America the moral leadership to represent the world and protect man's freedoms.  No other nation has the cultural diversity to even try. Especially China.

 

What is your vision? Hate Trump?

[Thainesss]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

He was impeached for offenses less serious than Trump. Using the comparison as a yardstick, Trump should be charged for treason 

 

Um no, Clinton perjured himself and committed actual crimes, on top of what would be considered an outrage by todays liberal standards of diddling an intern as the president of the USA using his office to take advantage of barely legal naive women. Then threatening and harassing the victim the whole time by his wife, you remember don't ya? That would be the very woman that Trump defeated in 2016.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Tug said:

Ahhhh you do know he lost the popular vote by a large margin and squeeked by in the electoral college all that against a very unpopular woman right???

That old chestnut again! US presidents are not elected by popular vote.

Says more about her that she didn't win it when she was widely expected to.

If she was very unpopular why do you say she won the popular vote? Mixed messages much?

How many popular votes did he lose by as a % of the voters, and where were they located ( on the Dems strongholds on the coasts perchance )?

 

Trump won. I suggest the Dems concentrate on finding a candidate with an actual chance of winning against him, instead of all the deflections from the IMO hopeless bunch currently running. If Warren is the best they can find, no wonder they want to impeach him.

[bendejo]

In Trump-Nixon impeachment comparison, Pelosi raises specter of resignation

 

I don't have much good to say of Nixon, but compared to this guy he is a man of dignity in that he knew he would suffer disgrace.  This guy will just keep saying "Believe me, not them!" even in the face evidence.

 

[Tug]

39 minutes ago, rabas said:

That's what I meant by We. Us, all the people.

 

But when people say they 'don't understand' it should always be taken literally. It does not imply anything about others. It only means that you have homework, assuming you want to understand.

 

BTW, in my own view America is destined to become the greatest nation ever when we finally integrate our vast cultural wealth into one harmonious union of peoples from all nations and cultures. Independent and united as is our current union of states. That, more than all its inventiveness will give America the moral leadership to represent the world and protect man's freedoms.  No other nation has the cultural diversity to even try. Especially China.

 

What is your vision? Hate Trump?

Your Donald earned the revulsion it with interest that’s from the (majority) of us your vision is wonderful but I don’t understand how you expect to get there with an old rasist narcissist no brother it’s you that needs to do the home work I’m not a mark I know what trump is I’ve been aware of him since the 70s he has built his entire presidency on smearing others that’s all he has got that may be your vision of a leader not mine I kinda see Donald as a hybrid of Mussolini and boss tweed do your homework look up boss tweed you might have a chuckle cheers