Scotland must be given new independence vote - Sturgeon

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, Mattd said:

And just how are Scotland going to fund their independence, defend their sovereign nation, fund their education, their police, pay off their slice of the National debt, build and maintain roads and infrastructure?

I'd give it months before bankruptcy.

 

 

I think this is best left to the Jocks to sort.

 

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

In 2010 they didn't even have 20%. What's your point?

post No.57

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Incorrect.

Oh dear, some of us getting carried away with panto season fever. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

"Boris Johnson may have a mandate to take England out of the European Union. He emphatically does not have a mandate to take Scotland out of the European Union. Scotland must have a choice over our own future."

Last time I checked Scotland were not members of the European Union, But don't forget they are members of the UK which IS A member of the European Union and will be leaving

None of that has anything to do with my post. 

[RichardColeman]

The main reason she wants a quick indy vote is because she is scared witless that Boris and the conservatives will make a success of Brexit and her power within Scotland deminish. 

[Forethat]

54 minutes ago, Mattd said:

And just how are Scotland going to fund their independence, defend their sovereign nation, fund their education, their police, pay off their slice of the National debt, build and maintain roads and infrastructure?

I'd give it months before bankruptcy.

 

The question is whether they will meet the EU membership requirements? If they are lucky and get an exemption perhaps they can ask the EU to fund their infrastructure, social welfare, educational system, police and defense. Not to mention the widespread drug addiction issues. That'll please the other member nations, especially as they will now have to cover the financial void created by Brexit.

 

Beannachd leat, Nicola!

[GinBoy2]

Now I'm but a stupid 'murican, so maybe I need educating.

 

But as I understand it, after yesterday the entire UK will leave the EU on Jan 31st.

 

If Scotland were then to vote for independence, wouldn't they then have to apply to rejoin the EU, a process that takes years, during which time they would just be a very small nation trading within the WTO?

 

This is another question I don't know the answer to, but I would suspect that their largest trading partner would be the rest of the remaining UK.

 

That would make a very interesting dynamic, where the Brit's, ex Brits, Scots whatever on this forum would be chasing tails for years!

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, Bell1234 said:

Not a chance.. The SNP have blocked Boris on Brexit so expect the same serving back.

What Boris can do to stop any Scotish referendum ? Send the army in ? ? 

[RuamRudy]

28 minutes ago, Forethat said:

The question is whether they will meet the EU membership requirements? If they are lucky and get an exemption perhaps they can ask the EU to fund their infrastructure, social welfare, educational system, police and defense. Not to mention the widespread drug addiction issues. That'll please the other member nations, especially as they will now have to cover the financial void created by Brexit.

 

Beannachd leat, Nicola!

But we already meet eu standards in all the areas you mention. Independence won't mean starting from scratch - we have decades of experience as part of the EU.

[Momofarang]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

Independence will win in a landslide. Vote should be the sooner the better. Boris & England are on a suicide mission. I think grandpa who left Milton for Canada as a young man would want leave. 

For an outsider it is fascinating to see both England and Scotland voting for their own (versions of) independence.

 

 

[puipuitom]

28 minutes ago, Forethat said:

The question is whether they will meet the EU membership requirements? If they are lucky and get an exemption perhaps they can their infrastructure, social welfare, educational system, police and defense. Not to mention the widespread drug addiction issues. That'll please the other member nations, especially as they will now have to cover the financial void created by Brexit.

 

Beannachd leat, Nicola!

a) "will meet the EU membership requirements ?"  At least till today, Scotland, Northern Ireland ( and Wales) meet these requirements. So, a "welcome to have you back", and that discussion is over. Second: can join Eire in a "Gaelic (con)federation, just as Belgium is in fact a 4-parts-state. 

b) "ask the EU to fund... " also can be solved very quickly when industries, present still in England, migrate to Scotland as also they prefer to stay in the EU.

c) "cover the financial void created by Brexit".  When EU import duty over the UK / English origin products is levied in accordance with WTO rules... this gap is covered before June of each year.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But we already meet eu standards in all the areas you mention. Independence won't mean starting from scratch - we have decades of experience as part of the EU.

Sure. But my question is who's going to fund it. And then there's the budget deficit of maximum 3%...

 

I agree, you have decades of experience. Of having others fund your...everything.

[newnative]

  I wasn't paying close attention and I first thought that was Merkel with a rather successful facelift.  

[Brigand]

Scotland has 5.4 million people... good luck making that work. Yeah, I'm sure you'll raise plenty of tax once business flees and the EU says it's 6 years before you can join if you do what you are told and adopt the Euro as that's a requirement now for new members. Wee Cranky couldn't care less and just wants to do the spiteful vainglorious nonsense... the SNP can't even run Scotland properly now, and that's with Westminster's help. A day after independence then house prices will plummet and hard working Scots will see their savings go "Poof" and the best Scotland can do is use the Scottish pound, lol (you do realise the rest of the UK will cut you off big time). Who will underwrite everything and guarantee stuff? Won't be the BoE as is now, it'll have to be Hollyrood... good luck with making the markets swallow that. However, you are welcome to your fantasies, but then again, the opinions of the TV crowd are woefully off often due to it just being a small bunch of trolls in many threads (especially in world news). The SNP has not issued any credible plans for anything post independence... all La La Land. Shame the rest of the UK can't have a referendum to eject the Scots as the stuck record nonsense is just BS.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

a) "will meet the EU membership requirements ?"  At least till today, Scotland, Northern Ireland ( and Wales) meet these requirements. So, a "welcome to have you back", and that discussion is over. Second: can join Eire in a "Gaelic (con)federation, just as Belgium is in fact a 4-parts-state. 

b) "ask the EU to fund... " also can be solved very quickly when industries, present still in England, migrate to Scotland as also they prefer to stay in the EU.

c) "cover the financial void created by Brexit".  When EU import duty over the UK / English origin products is levied in accordance with WTO rules... this gap is covered before June of each year.

a) No. Scotland doesn't meet the maximum 3% budget deficit requirement. The deficit currently hovers around an astronomical 7-8%. That's Greece-class. 

b) No, it can't be solved very quickly

c) No, the gap is not covered before June each year.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland wouldn't be successful in remaining or re-joining the EU, I'm just pointing out that someone else will have to pick up the tab. As usual, when it comes to socialists.

[puipuitom]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But we already meet eu standards in all the areas you mention. Independence won't mean starting from scratch - we have decades of experience as part of the EU.

It is NOT important if all meets EU standards, but.. if these certificates, issued by British (English) autorities still will be accepted as final by the EU authorities and users ( Retail + industry). Remind: EU court rulings are of no value then in the UK. Means for me as EU food importer, UK certificates are as valid as these of CIQ ( China) or.... British Retail Consortium still valid, or.. the value of the paper it is printed on ? 

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

[jvs]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

the entire UK will leave the EU on Jan 31st.

Much later,years even.

[Rookiescot]

29 minutes ago, Forethat said:

a) No. Scotland doesn't meet the maximum 3% budget deficit requirement. The deficit currently hovers around an astronomical 7-8%. That's Greece-class. 

b) No, it can't be solved very quickly

c) No, the gap is not covered before June each year.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland wouldn't be successful in remaining or re-joining the EU, I'm just pointing out that someone else will have to pick up the tab. As usual, when it comes to socialists.

a)Scotland has no deficit. The deficit you refer to is one run up by Westminster which it then blames Scotland for.

But you already knew that.

 

b)You can move a nameplate in an hour. 

 

c)You didnt answer his point.

 

Not having a go at you in particular Forethat but this deficit myth has been debunked thousands of times and yet it is still repeated as if its real.

[sandy102uk]

In the election the SNP got 45% of the votes cast to give them the vast majority of the seats. It's not a forgone conclusion that they would win an independence vote if granted. 

[RuamRudy]

44 minutes ago, Forethat said:

a) No. Scotland doesn't meet the maximum 3% budget deficit requirement. The deficit currently hovers around an astronomical 7-8%. That's Greece-class. 

b) No, it can't be solved very quickly

c) No, the gap is not covered before June each year.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland wouldn't be successful in remaining or re-joining the EU, I'm just pointing out that someone else will have to pick up the tab. As usual, when it comes to socialists.

Scotland contributes in the region of £58 billion (excluding the unknowns) to Westminster and receives in return around £30 billion. Westminster squanders the rest plus some -and bills Scotland for that. With a Scottish government making decisions which are best for Scotland, i have every. Confidence that our deficit will be acceptable.

 

[puipuitom]

4 minutes ago, Forethat said:

a) No. Scotland doesn't meet the maximum 3% budget deficit requirement. The deficit currently hovers around an astronomical 7-8%. That's Greece-class. 

b) No, it can't be solved very quickly

c) No, the gap is not covered before June each year.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland wouldn't be successful in remaining or re-joining the EU, I'm just pointing out that someone else will have to pick up the tab. As usual, when it comes to socialists.

a) maximum 3% budget deficit requirement has ONLY to do with €uro-membership, nothing with EU membership. After so many years, the Brits shoudl know.

b) You will be astonished how quick factories can move, especially to solve a 10% EU import duty, like cars. Belgium car makers facilities could be moved in weeks.

c) with a present British export to the EU of a GBP 285 Bn/year, and an average import duty of 5 %, the NET contribution of the UK of a 7,9 Bn/yr is scraped together quite quickly.

[Forethat]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

a)Scotland has no deficit. The deficit you refer to is one run up by Westminster which it then blames Scotland for.

But you already knew that.

 

b)You can move a nameplate in an hour. 

 

c)You didnt answer his point.

 

Not having a go at you in particular Forethat but this deficit myth has been debunked thousands of times and yet it is still repeated as if its real.

Scotland currently has a budget deficit of 7%. The deficit of GDP currently stands at 7% (excluding oil revenue it's 8.6%).

 

I'm sorry, but that's not a myth, it's a fact.

 

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2018-19/

[stevenl]

54 minutes ago, Brigand said:

Scotland has 5.4 million people... good luck making that work. Yeah, I'm sure you'll raise plenty of tax once business flees and the EU says it's 6 years before you can join if you do what you are told and adopt the Euro as that's a requirement now for new members. Wee Cranky couldn't care less and just wants to do the spiteful vainglorious nonsense... the SNP can't even run Scotland properly now, and that's with Westminster's help. A day after independence then house prices will plummet and hard working Scots will see their savings go "Poof" and the best Scotland can do is use the Scottish pound, lol (you do realise the rest of the UK will cut you off big time). Who will underwrite everything and guarantee stuff? Won't be the BoE as is now, it'll have to be Hollyrood... good luck with making the markets swallow that. However, you are welcome to your fantasies, but then again, the opinions of the TV crowd are woefully off often due to it just being a small bunch of trolls in many threads (especially in world news). The SNP has not issued any credible plans for anything post independence... all La La Land. Shame the rest of the UK can't have a referendum to eject the Scots as the stuck record nonsense is just BS.

As you say, opinions on TV are woefully off often.

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, sandy102uk said:

In the election the SNP got 45% of the votes cast to give them the vast majority of the seats. It's not a forgone conclusion that they would win an independence vote if granted. 

At the 2010 GE the SNP won 6 seats. They started indyref1 with support for independence at 28% in the polls. Have they reached park NAT? I don't know, but they appear to have momentum behind them.

[Denim]

5 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

I will be the first fat b@st@rd to manually increase, brick by brick,  the height of Hadrian's Wall, its entire length, if need be! God Save the Queen!

 

And I will be your hod carrier , albeit only 4 bricks to the hod.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Scotland currently has a budget deficit of 7%. The deficit of GDP currently stands at 7% (excluding oil revenue it's 8.6%).

 

I'm sorry, but that's not a myth, it's a fact.

 

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2018-19/

The GERS figures are produced by Westminster but the Scottish government has to publish them by law.

Its sole intention is to make Scotland look like a basket case.

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

 

There are literally hundreds of posts outlining how the GERS figures are absolute nonsense. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Sure. But my question is who's going to fund it. And then there's the budget deficit of maximum 3%...

 

I agree, you have decades of experience. Of having others fund your...everything.

Maybe best that you worry about your own future.

 

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

The GERS figures are produced by Westminster but the Scottish government has to publish them by law.

Its sole intention is to make Scotland look like a basket case.

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

 

There are literally hundreds of posts outlining how the GERS figures are absolute nonsense. 

I guess we have to agree to disagree on that one and wish Scotland good luck. After all, I'm rather confident none of us wish to see any nation harmed.

[Denim]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

 

Now before i get attacked for my comment, i am half Scottish, half English.

 

 

If I close my eyes I can visualize it, a man in a kilt wearing a bowler hat.