Dual pricing: Dutch man seeking hospital justice complains nothing is happening

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, TheDutchEngineer said:

public prosecutor at the court of Samut Prakan for the prosecution of corrupt government officials

Did you attempt to contact the public prosecutor directly?

[Tchooptip]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

And what was it you wanted to say?

That you said "Just saw the problem out of how the authorities and the police might be thinking of him at the moment."

 When we read you it seems you are saying that the authorities and the police all think badly about his case, but it goes in all directions some agree with him and others would prove him wrong!
And if this were not the case the director of the hospital would not have been transferred.

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

That you said "Just saw the problem out of how the authorities and the police might be thinking of him at the moment."

 When we read you it seems you are saying that the authorities and the police all think badly about his case, but it goes in all directions some agree with him and others would prove him wrong!
And if this were not the case the director of the hospital would not have been transferred.

To become a director in another hospital. Do you get it now?

[Morakot]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

I think the reaction was to make it legal to overcharge foreigners in hospitals. In fairness since they did offer financial compensation what more does he want? Fruit basket?

 

Justice? Recompense?

[Morakot]

24 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Did you attempt to contact the public prosecutor directly?

 

Don't think that's possible in Thailand. The PP can only act once police hands over the case.

 

It's a major flaw in the Thai legal system and has been highlighted numerous times by various legal commentators.

[Mister Fixit]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

I think the reaction was to make it legal to overcharge foreigners in hospitals. In fairness since they did offer financial compensation what more does he want? Fruit basket?

It's all very well offering compensation.  What he's complaining about is not receiving it.  

[TheDutchEngineer]

34 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Did you attempt to contact the public prosecutor directly?

I did at the Prachuap khiri khan court. The prosecutor helped me "off the record" as an intermediate between me and the ministry and the PACC. That lasted about a year but they where also not able to break through the wall. The prosecutor was releaved when the case was finally was  picked up by the NACC and got a resolution. The NACC can prosecute by themselves but the high commission made the bad decision to hand it over to the incompetent Hua Hin police. I warned them in advance because the Hua Hin police was already involved in the case when I had reported the hospital previously. They took side of the hospital and made report that the surcharge was just a computer mistake. 

[Mister Fixit]

3 hours ago, TheDutchEngineer said:

In other words, the case dropped stone cold at the Hua Hin police station for the last 6 months while the have a clear order from the NACC to file charges at the public prosecutor at the court of Samut Prakan for the prosecution of corrupt government officials. 

Which is pretty well what happened with the police who were supposed to draw up an extradition order for the Red Bull hit and run kid.  

[LNKDES1]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

The usual Thai way, bury the story and hope the guy goes away!

Worrying thing is NP is my neck of the woods!

Mine too, and that's the hospital I use.

[Morakot]

28 minutes ago, TheDutchEngineer said:

The prosecutor helped me "off the record" as an intermediate between me and the ministry and the PACC. That lasted about a year but they where also not able to break through the wall. The prosecutor was releaved when the case was finally was  picked up by the NACC and got a resolution. The NACC can prosecute by themselves but the high commission made the bad decision to hand it over to the incompetent Hua Hin police.

 

I'd be surprised if the NACC prosecutes cases like this. I think it's quite telling that the NACC actually picked it up when PACC got nowhere. I gather it must have been a rather persistent effort to get to that.

 

Would the NACC follow up on their referred case if the local police stalls the case?

[Foghorn]

Good luck and keep up the good work . If there was more people like you thailand would eventually get better ,don’t back down.  Thankyou 

[TheDutchEngineer]

9 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

I'd be surprised if the NACC prosecutes cases like this. I think it's quite telling that the NACC actually picked it up when PACC got nowhere. I gather it must have been a rather persistent effort to get to that.

 

Would the NACC follow up on their referred case if the local police stalls the case?

The PACC is for officials lower ranking than director (CEO). If the ranking of the official is director or higher the NACC has to do the case. At this moment all complaints are taken by the NACC and they decide if it has to go to the PACC. Initially the PACC was entiteld to take complaints but that has recently changed. All complaints has to go to NACC first. (In my case it started at the PACC, but when they found out that the surcharges where ordered by the director they had to transfer the case to the NACC)

 

The NACC has the duty to follow up the case and the prosecution needs also to be reported back to the NACC. They can take actions if the prosecution or punishment is not in line with there findings. Unfortunately there isn't a specific timeframe but it is mentioned that they can interfere if the case is abnormally delayed.

[Youlike]

8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

I think the reaction was to make it legal to overcharge foreigners in hospitals. In fairness since they did offer financial compensation what more does he want? Fruit basket?

If they want to make that legal it should be published in the foreign newspapers tomorrow...let's see what happens then.

 

Anybody some more thai rice? No? A nice holiday to thailand then? Yeess why are there no farang in hua hin?? how is possible?

[TheDutchEngineer]

33 minutes ago, Youlike said:

If they want to make that legal it should be published in the foreign newspapers tomorrow...let's see what happens then.

 

Anybody some more thai rice? No? A nice holiday to thailand then? Yeess why are there no farang in hua hin?? how is possible?

New regulations came into force on 30 September 2019 that foreigners can be charged up to 100% on top of the regular fee for Thai citizens that pay in cash (no health coverage)

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Me think Mr Buse is walking very close to any kind of made up deportation order. He is clearly a problem that must be dealt with, otherwise they would have been taking care of this long time ago.

No, they wont waste their time. They will do the typical Thai thing, one excuse after another until he gives up.  

[DaRoadrunner]

7 minutes ago, TheDutchEngineer said:

New regulations came into force on 30 September 2019 that foreigners can be charged up to 100% on top of the regular fee for Thai citizens that pay in cash (no health coverage)

I would propose that the regulation is illegal. It is also racist.

 

While I am at it; forcing foreigners to buy health insurance from Thai companies as a condition of getting your Visa is also probably illegal. People have a right to buy insurance anywhere they like.

 

How do we get our rights? Oh, we have no rights.... TIT.

Edited December 19, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[tgw]

5 hours ago, P Funk said:

How did the hospital justify the surcharge?

that's an easy one - he farang he have money maak maak

[Inn Between]

What a sick  and twisted approach to life in Thailand where people sit in their offices and decide to bilk a man suffering with cancer for bogus reasons -- pure lies. Then when they're caught, they shamelessly ignore the court and punishment they were given knowing that since a farang is involved, they'll get full cooperation from the legal system to do whatever they wish.

 

Do most Thais have a broken moral compass or do they simply go through life without one? 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Inn Between

[DaRoadrunner]

Hospitals, listed on the stock market, overcharging sick people and double charging Farang.

 

Question is, what can we do about it?

[hansnl]

17 hours ago, Queenslander said:

The other day I visited one the BKK hospital chain. Staff excellent treatment excellent. Time taken for treatment 15 minutes, mild infection.

7 X antibiotic tablets (normal retail price for 10 = 80 THB) = 1351 THB.

Fair price that a Thai could afford...methinks not! 

Yes, private "healthcare" is all about profit maximalisation.

You could always go to a state hospital and stop supporting private hospitals and money grabbing insurance companies.

[hansnl]

11 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

I would propose that the regulation is illegal. It is also racist.

 

While I am at it; forcing foreigners to buy health insurance from Thai companies as a condition of getting your Visa is also probably illegal. People have a right to buy insurance anywhere they like.

 

How do we get our rights? Oh, we have no rights.... TIT.

It seems to be not legal to force any resident of Thailand to buy health insurance............

Tax registered,  amphur registered foreigners are residents.

 

It is rather obvious, all this health insurance noise is about enriching insurance companies, in no way it is helping the state hospitals to cope with unpaid bills, simply because it are not the expats or tourists but the illegal workforce that are to blame for nearly all the unpaid bills.

 

A simple 500 Baht extra on any extension of stay would have paid for the unpaid bills, a state controlled insurance for foreigners only valid in state hospitals would have been ideal for the ailing state hospital fund.

Instead the "poor" insurance companies must be "helped".

 

I wonder, all policies ordered in this scheme pay Out a maximum of 400,000 Baht inpatient and 40,000 Baht outpatient.

Having 440,000 Baht in the bank to cover the amount must be the same, I think.

 

In my case, due to my age, the insurance was cancelled.

The premium was around 25,000 per year.

The same company offered me the new policy, with a lot of exceptions, for 104,345 baht per year......

No thank you.

[Canuckabroad]

I think TheDutchEngineer is right to pursue this.  Unless people (or policies) are held accountable then two-tier pricing and gouging will just continue.  And this is the worst kind of exploitation too, of sick and injured people.  If the extra money was going to hospital coffers then it’s a policy issue.  If the directors were benefitting financially then it is criminal corruption and they should be punished.

[Plus Esse Quam Simultatur]

Queen Sirikit charge much more that 50 percent. First time a few years ago went there for a simple hernia operation. Total price just over 12.000 baht. 6 month ago went there again for same type of operation (the other side) and I was quoted 100.000 baht. Aprox. 800 percent increase. They do have a sign telling that no Thai will get charged 50 percent more.

[tabarin]

On 12/19/2019 at 5:39 PM, Tropposurfer said:

I just got quoted around 26K AUD for right hip replacement by Vejthani Hospital in bkk lol ????

same frigin price as Australia.

What a laugh.  
I know I can get it for as low as 12K, 7K in one of India’s best private orthopaedic hospitals.

talk about Thai’s shooting themselves in the foot ... again haha.

Same with dental implants and crowns nowadays, became insane expensive. 

[DaRoadrunner]

On 12/19/2019 at 10:50 PM, Inn Between said:

What a sick  and twisted approach to life in Thailand where people sit in their offices and decide to bilk a man suffering with cancer for bogus reasons -- pure lies. Then when they're caught, they shamelessly ignore the court and punishment they were given knowing that since a farang is involved, they'll get full cooperation from the legal system to do whatever they wish.

 

Do most Thais have a broken moral compass or do they simply go through life without one?

Its a sick world. But as the saying goes ... Doctors bury their mistakes. And Thai doctors.... I will let you write your own ending as you wish!

[stat]

@TheDutchEngineer

 

First of all get well soon!

It is great that you have the courage and the stamina to take up this topic and I hope you will win your case!

Best of luck!

Edited December 21, 2019 by stat

[observer90210]

wonder why the foreigner numbers are dropping as such ?

[Isaanbiker]

The directors appear to have been transferred possibly to Nakhon Pathom as the courts drag their feet and the case appears to have gone cold. 

 

I bet three of my Mia Nois that this never happened. How would the Dutch guy even find that out?

 

   Lies over lies. And they call themselves Buddhist.  

[Isaanbiker]

44 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

wonder why the foreigner numbers are dropping as such ?

That's only a strange example. Overcharging of 13 k is a criminal matter.

 

   I wish I had the money foreigners pay more than Thais for anything in only one day all over Thailand.

 

  And I might even top Bill Gates.  

[Isaanbiker]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:08 AM, hansnl said:

It seems to be not legal to force any resident of Thailand to buy health insurance............

Tax registered,  amphur registered foreigners are residents.

 

It is rather obvious, all this health insurance noise is about enriching insurance companies, in no way it is helping the state hospitals to cope with unpaid bills, simply because it are not the expats or tourists but the illegal workforce that are to blame for nearly all the unpaid bills.

 

A simple 500 Baht extra on any extension of stay would have paid for the unpaid bills, a state controlled insurance for foreigners only valid in state hospitals would have been ideal for the ailing state hospital fund.

Instead the "poor" insurance companies must be "helped".

 

I wonder, all policies ordered in this scheme pay Out a maximum of 400,000 Baht inpatient and 40,000 Baht outpatient.

Having 440,000 Baht in the bank to cover the amount must be the same, I think.

 

In my case, due to my age, the insurance was cancelled.

The premium was around 25,000 per year.

The same company offered me the new policy, with a lot of exceptions, for 104,345 baht per year......

No thank you.

It is rather obvious, all this health insurance noise is about enriching insurance companies, in no way it is helping the state hospitals to cope with unpaid bills, simply because it are not the expats or tourists but the illegal workforce that are to blame for nearly all the unpaid bills.

 

  It's true that the cheap labor from neighboring country who very seldom even have any type of insurance even doing very dangerous jobs have caused the big minus in the hospitals.

 

   Then they make up numbers of foreigners who didn't pay their bills and blame us?

 

   It's all to make the richer even more rich and the poor will go down the drain. As usual.