Weird circular village

[chickenslegs]

Not at all sure that this village is in the Isaan area - It's a bit north of Sa Kaeo and near the border with Cambodia. I came across it while I was trying to find an alternative route from Sattahip to Surin (getting bored with the 331, 304, 24, 214 roads).

Map ref. Lat 14.107973 Lon 102.874333 (or 14deg 06mins 28.80secs N x 102deg 52mins 27.58secs E)

Just curious to know how it came to be designed in this way, and if there is any particular reason for it - If anyone has the info., please let me know.

[ericthai]

Dont know about that, but very interesting. 

 

 I typically go a different route. 

I take 331 heading towards Ko Khanun (331 turns into 304 for s short distance) then turn right onto 359 heading towards Watthana Nakun, 359 runs into 33, take 33 (which goes around town) turn left on 3198 go about 20km and turn left onto 3393 heading towards Kho Khlan (about 30km) then turn left on 3486 go about 10km then turn left on to 348 stay on 348 (turn into 2120) for about 10km then turn right onto 224 only for a short distance about 1-2km turn left onto 4013 (this turns into 2117) continue until you hit 24 then turn right go about 20km turn left onto 2445 for less than 1km and then turn right onto 2208 about 30-40km then turn left onto 226.

 

I've gone both ways several times. This route is mostly 2 lanes little towns, can have some delays. Route 348 runs into some mountains areas can be very slow at times. If it's just me, one stop on the way I can make it about 6hrs, relaxed driving a few stops take about 7-8hrs.

Enjoy the trip! I'm going to follow this so if you come up with any info please update.   

 

 

[tgw]

this village might be a recently designed settlement, the circle is a bit too perfect  -if the village was old, the circle would have been broken by new constructions and land parcels. there is also space in the middle reserved for school, police, etc. everything indicates recent planning.

 

but there are many semi-circular villages around Buriram, they seem very old, many are or were surrounded by a moat.

Buriram itself is built that way, the old city center is surrounded by a semi-circular moat.

You will find a number of smaller towns between Buriram and Korat, for example Thamen Chai.

 

I did some digging, but I found very little about these circular villages, but found a Thai academic asking the same questions about the culture who built their towns that way.

[chickenslegs]

I took a look at the village on Google street view. It's definitely not modern - looks pretty run down and fairly typical of villages in the area , except for the shape.

 

I'm tempted to take a detour and have a look, but Mrs C has visions of us getting kidnapped and murdered by the locals (or ghosts) ????

[chickenslegs]

10 hours ago, ericthai said:

Dont know about that, but very interesting. 

 

 I typically go a different route. 

I take 331 heading towards Ko Khanun (331 turns into 304 for s short distance) then turn right onto 359 heading towards Watthana Nakun, 359 runs into 33, take 33 (which goes around town) turn left on 3198 go about 20km and turn left onto 3393 heading towards Kho Khlan (about 30km) then turn left on 3486 go about 10km then turn left on to 348 stay on 348 (turn into 2120) for about 10km then turn right onto 224 only for a short distance about 1-2km turn left onto 4013 (this turns into 2117) continue until you hit 24 then turn right go about 20km turn left onto 2445 for less than 1km and then turn right onto 2208 about 30-40km then turn left onto 226.

 

I've gone both ways several times. This route is mostly 2 lanes little towns, can have some delays. Route 348 runs into some mountains areas can be very slow at times. If it's just me, one stop on the way I can make it about 6hrs, relaxed driving a few stops take about 7-8hrs.

Enjoy the trip! I'm going to follow this so if you come up with any info please update.   

 

 

Thanks Eric,

I was planning to try 331, 304, 359, 33, 348, 24, 214 but your shortcut using the 3198, 3393 & 3486 saves a big chunk, so I'll try it.

[lopburi3]

Another view of Ban Thap Thai below but do not see much on Google for name.  

https://satellites.pro/Ban_Thap_Thai_map.Sa_Kaeo_region.Thailand#14.107802,102.873337,17

 

[KhunBENQ]

9 hours ago, tgw said:

Buriram itself is built that way, the old city center is surrounded by a semi-circular moat.

Lopburi:

 

[Enoon]

9 hours ago, tgw said:

this village might be a recently designed settlement, the circle is a bit too perfect  -if the village was old, the circle would have been broken by new constructions and land parcels. there is also space in the middle reserved for school, police, etc. everything indicates recent planning.

 

but there are many semi-circular villages around Buriram, they seem very old, many are or were surrounded by a moat.

Buriram itself is built that way, the old city center is surrounded by a semi-circular moat.

You will find a number of smaller towns between Buriram and Korat, for example Thamen Chai.

 

I did some digging, but I found very little about these circular villages, but found a Thai academic asking the same questions about the culture who built their towns that way.

 

I suspect that the inner core is the ancient site and the outer zone has been built more recently.

 

And that the later building has been subject to modern "conformality", but to an ancient "traditional" pattern.

 

Or, looking at what could be the remains of a moat on the periphery, extensive renewal/re-development.

 

Rainfall and circular moated sites in north-east Thailand ...

"The results suggest that water storage may have been the primary purpose of the moats, enabling communities to survive dry seasons and droughts."

 

 

 

[chickenslegs]

Some Google street view images taken from the centre of the circle (dated 2014). Everything looks pretty ordinary - no ancient remains or monument.

[mick220675]

I think you can find many circular villages. We have one close to our village ( 14°22'09.3"N 103°08'43.8"E ). Its nothing special I'm told it was set out by the army in the 1980's.

As with most villages along the border very little happens during the day, but terrorised at night by ghosts.

[ubonjoe]

How about one that is a octagon.

 

 

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/rgcDE4UdtPosZkJW6

[JDGRUEN]

A long time ago (October-November 1967) while serving with A-Det 4613 of the 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) in Issan, my A-Team began a year long series of highland jungle forest patrols stopping at many small villages East of our camp in the Phu Phan. There were quite a few small to tiny villages in those remote areas. Most of these were inhabited by the Bru Mountain Tribal people.  One such village was named Ban Na (75 or so inhabitants). The village was somewhat circular with a low (about 1 meter high or so) earthen compound wall surrounding the village.  Near the center was a small wooden Buddhist Wat. We were allowed to rest and sleep on the wooden floor.  There was a large stream circling around about half of the village wall. 

 

Here is what Wikipedia says about the Bru people... 

 

The Bru settled mostly along waterways. Traditionally they live in small houses that are built on stilts. The houses are arranged around a central meeting building around a circle. In Thailand, most Bru live in Sakon Nakhon Province, and Mukdahan Province in the Isan region of Northeast Thailand. 

[Cutty Shark]

Interesting thread.  My thanks to the OP and other contributors.

[Nanaplaza666]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:50 AM, KhunBENQ said:

Lopburi:

 

I see the police running in cirkels trying to catch the goldshop robber 

[Denim]

This is a wheely interesting thread. Trying to get my head around it.

 The police station is unusual too.

 

 

[jak2002003]

On 1/10/2020 at 12:08 PM, Enoon said:

 

Or, looking at what could be the remains of a moat on the periphery, extensive renewal/re-development.

 

Rainfall and circular moated sites in north-east Thailand ...

"The results suggest that water storage may have been the primary purpose of the moats, enabling communities to survive dry seasons and droughts."

 

 

 

Shame they don't plan for saving water so much these days in Thailand in general.  Now they are always shocked when there is the annual drought like its something new an totally unexpected.  Seems people in the past were smarter, despite not having the latest phones and highly paid government people to look after them.

[elgenon]

looks kind of good. Are their any rules regarding who/ what gets closer to/ or farther from the center?

[Centrum]

3 hours ago, JDGRUEN said:

A long time ago (October-November 1967) while serving with A-Det 4613 of the 46th. Special Forces Company (Airborne) in Issan, my A-Team began a year long series of highland jungle forest patrols stopping at many small villages East of our camp in the Phu Phan. There were quite a few small to tiny villages in those remote areas. Most of these were inhabited by the Bru Mountain Tribal people.  One such village was named Ban Na (75 or so inhabitants). The village was somewhat circular with a low (about 1 meter high or so) earthen compound wall surrounding the village.  Near the center was a small wooden Buddhist Wat. We were allowed to rest and sleep on the wooden floor.  There was a large stream circling around about half of the village wall. 

 

Here is what Wikipedia says about the Bru people... 

 

The Bru settled mostly along waterways. Traditionally they live in small houses that are built on stilts. The houses are arranged around a central meeting building around a circle. In Thailand, most Bru live in Sakon Nakhon Province, and Mukdahan Province in the Isan region of Northeast Thailand. 

aha....the Special Forces guy.

[JDGRUEN]

14 minutes ago, Centrum said:

aha....the Special Forces guy.

Yes and quite real - not an armchair expert like some

[Iron Tongue]

Near Cambodian border across from Battambang.  This probably started-out as a military outpost/fortified village anytime from 1950's-through Pol Pot era of Khmer Rouge, but became purely civilian settlement as military hostilities subsided. 

Thailand took 3 provinces from Cambodia during this time and suffered raids from communist forces into the 1980s.

[Liverpudlian]

As with corn circles my hint is loa khao circles ???? 

[chickenslegs]

'

4 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

Near Cambodian border across from Battambang.  This probably started-out as a military outpost/fortified village anytime from 1950's-through Pol Pot era of Khmer Rouge, but became purely civilian settlement as military hostilities subsided. 

Thailand took 3 provinces from Cambodia during this time and suffered raids from communist forces into the 1980s.

That seems very plausible' especially as there is no obvious historical building or monument in the centre, just a very plain minor crossroads.

The buildings look (to my non-expert eye) fairly typical of 1950's 1960's Isaan villages.

[ballpoint]

On 1/13/2020 at 2:41 PM, Iron Tongue said:

Near Cambodian border across from Battambang.  This probably started-out as a military outpost/fortified village anytime from 1950's-through Pol Pot era of Khmer Rouge, but became purely civilian settlement as military hostilities subsided. 

Thailand took 3 provinces from Cambodia during this time and suffered raids from communist forces into the 1980s.

Thailand ceded three provinces to French Indochina in 1907, took them back in 1941 during WWII, when Japan occupied Indochina, but had to give them back to the French in 1946 in return for joining the UN.  Cambodia only became an independent country in 1953, when it lost land in the Mekong Delta to Vietnam, and Champasak to Laos, but none to Thailand. 

 

This village is Ban Thap Thai in the Ta Phraya district of Sa Kaeo Province.  The area was made an Amphur in the 50s, following the clearing of jungle, so the village probably does date from later than then, but there are no walls, or remains of walls, around it.  In 1978, following Vietnam driving out the Khmer Rouge and occupying, or liberating depending on who you ask, Cambodia (or the People's Republic of Kampuchea), a number of resistance bases were set up in this area, along with refugee camps, with the tacit support of the US and Thailand who distrusted the Vietnamese.   Intermittent fighting between Thailand and the Vietnamese went on until their withdrawal from Cambodia in 1989.  The village, which is roughly where the blue dot is on the map below, could have formed around then.  Then again, it may just be the result of some creative town planning.

 

 

The Khao I Dang refugee camp, here pictured in 1983, was also nearby.  It's estimated that over 200,000 refugees passed through it.  There is an information centre on the site now, which is worth a visit.