The logic of masking

[Kurtf]

I agree. There is no logical reason to continue wearing masks. However...the dictatorship government of Thailand doesn't understand logic and so in order to get into most stores today, you will have to wear a mask.

[johnpetersen]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out posting 'fake COVID scares' is punishable by prison in Thailand.

No. It's fake reports about Covid that are punishable. For instance, if someone claims a miracle cure. Or that covid is no different from the flue.  And I suspect your idea of what is fake probably differs somewhat from the scientific consensus and that of the Thai government.

[johnpetersen]

4 hours ago, mike787 said:

Masks are useless...most don't wear them or care.  

This is the kind of false covid comment that the government might want to take a look at. And it's not about scaring people, is it?

[johnpetersen]

4 hours ago, chilly07 said:

I missed BBCs 2500 deaths above average but if this is so then that is almost certainly Thailands current covid death rate. Means that symptomatic and non symptomatic covid is still active and even though this is still low Thailands use of masks is working so I and my wife will continue to wear masks as everyone should

The report was that in March the death rate was 2500 above normal. It has since reverted to normal levels.

[Purdey]

11 hours ago, kenk24 said:

We do not know everything about this virus, so, why not take a few extra precautions..

This is very sensible. My company pays for an international medical doctor to give advice. Practically every question gets a response that starts, "Well, we have no experience of this virus before. It is new so we don't know anything for certain."

One point I found interesting is that it is similar to the common cold, and there is no cure for the common cold. We must take precautions and expect it to keep returning every year.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, mike787 said:

Masks are useless...most don't wear them or care.  

Ah, another medical expert. TV seems to be replete with them.

You're in an operating theatre, the surgeon is about to cut you open. You won't mind if all the theatre staff discard their masks because they are a nuisance, will you?

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Purdey said:

 

One point I found interesting is that it is similar to the common cold, and there is no cure for the common cold. We must take precautions and expect it to keep returning every year.

Why keep returning every year though?

This virus may not be seasonal and not go away and will be here constantly ?

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

it is similar to the common cold, and there is no cure for the common cold

Very interesting and pretty scary too... 

 

people are talking about having a shortened baseball season this year in USA - - I can't even imagine having a spring training next year... 

[johnpetersen]

4 hours ago, teacherofwoe said:

I'm guessing that after he told you all of that you just dismissed it as a reflex action. That's why your friend calls you one of the sheeple. If you had looked at the information and seen if any of it stands up, your friend would have said you have started your awakening. Forget about the alien stuff and Bill Gates is the Devil. Look into all the other stuff. But be prepared that the world will never look the same again. It's a difficult experience but worth it. Good luck.

 

P.S. Ask your friend if he has one of David Icke's books. Any will do. 

"David Vaughan Icke (/ˈdeɪvɪd vɔːn aɪk/; born 29 April 1952) is an English conspiracy theorist,^[1][3][4][5] and a former footballer and sports broadcaster.^[6] Icke has written more than 20 books and has lectured in over 25 countries.^[7][8]

In 1990, while spokesman for the Green Party, he visited a psychic who he said told him he had been placed on earth for a purpose and would begin to receive messages from the spirit world.^[9] These events led him to announce the following year that he was a "Son of the Godhead"^[6] and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes, a prediction he repeated on the BBC's primetime show Wogan.^[10][11] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

[LeoCesar]

Those who sneeze and cough should protect others, and wearing a mask is a good way to do it. 
Healthy people should definitely not wear mask.

[Bill97]

47 minutes ago, LeoCesar said:

Healthy people should definitely not wear mask.

Great so how do you know who is healthy?

 

Oh of course ask Trump or any of his “no masks needed” parrots here.

[Bill97]

5 hours ago, LeoCesar said:

Those who sneeze and cough should protect others, and wearing a mask is a good way to do it. 
Healthy people should definitely not wear mask.

Good thinking.  Healthy people never sneeze or cough so they definitely, love that definitely, should not wear masks.

 

This thread contains so much BS I think it is time to stop reading and go climb my neighbor’s wall and bang on my kitchen tin roof.

 

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Oh of course ask Trump or any of his “no masks needed” parrots here.

Many Americans seem to see everything through partisan-colored spectacles.

Painting all those that posted 'no masks needed' messages (underpinned by good arguments), as Trump-parrots is an insult of the highest order.

Trump is an absolute moron and a clear and present danger to the whole world, and for sure his only argument for not wearing masks would be that it messes up his precious hair-style.

So don't bring this Orange Buffoon into a topic that addresses mask-wearing in Thailand.

At this stage (36 days without ANY new covid-19 case) it goes against all logic to keep insisting that mask-wearing in Thailand is necessary. 

[Dante99]

16 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

At this stage (36 days without ANY new covid-19 case)

Lovely how this statistic is accepted 100% when other "facts" offered by the government are dismissed as untrue.  Or do you believe everything the government says Peter?

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Lovely how this statistic is accepted 100% when other "facts" offered by the government are dismissed as untrue.  Or do you believe everything the government says Peter?

No, I am not that naive and most probably some cases will have slipped being detected, and of course the thai government has an interest in keeping the thai covid-case low.

But even so, it is obvious that Thailand is virtually - if not really - covid-free after 36 days with no new cases reported.  Even ONE case detected now would be Big News and touted all over.

So it's time to stop the scare-mongering.  The unnecessary continuation of enforcing the wearing of masks is a visual reminder of the 'We are in danger' perception.

The facts and data simply do not support that perception.

And don't come after 2 full cycles with the invisible asymptomatic ones as an excuse to keep this unneeded panic mode because we 'won't be safe for months to come'.  It's time to get a life!

 

[RocketDog]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:21 PM, Fairynuff said:

I agree with everything you say except the nonsense about being guests

A guest is somebody who is not a citizen. So you are certainly welcome to deny your status but you surely realize that you cannot change it without formally becoming a citizen.

 

If you don't have a Thai passport then you are a guest subject to deportation at the sole discretion of the Thai government. That is the hard reality of it. Denying reality often leads to dire circumstances. 

 

It follows that it is equally difficult to formally become a non-citizen of your birth country, especially so in America. It is both difficult and expensive to renounce citizenship there. 

[RocketDog]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:59 PM, steelepulse said:

So there's a whole army of asymptomatic carriers out there infecting people who may or may not be getting anything.  Any reason why there have been no reported cases?  Surely if someone thinks they have covid, they will be going to the hospital and requesting a test.  Are hospitals even charging for tests of those that show symptoms of covid and think they have it?

 

How many years is this army going to go around infecting others, yet the others show no symptoms?  Seems like everyone in fear of an asymptomatic carrier is not healthy and should perhaps think about protecting themselves.  Keep wearing your mask, keep social distancing, and keep sanitizing things while healthy people go back to leading their lives.

Exactly as you say. People must judge their own risk factors and act appropriately. Naturally those who choose to deny prevailing laws and edicts are generating a new set of decidedly non-medical risks to themselves. 

 

I personally made a decision to avoid infection and therefore will continue to wear a mask and avoid close contact with others when I leave my house. I will continue to do so until I judge the risks factors TO ME are minimal. I will do this regardless of whether the law requires this or not. So for now, this is 'the new normal' FOR ME. 

 

This said, I will never attempt to force my view or behavior on others except when they are enter my property. In that case I reserve the right to dictate their behavior. 

 

Unabashedly, it's all about me. ????

[Fairynuff]

28 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

A guest is somebody who is not a citizen. So you are certainly welcome to deny your status but you surely realize that you cannot change it without formally becoming a citizen.

 

If you don't have a Thai passport then you are a guest subject to deportation at the sole discretion of the Thai government. That is the hard reality of it. Denying reality often leads to dire circumstances. 

 

It follows that it is equally difficult to formally become a non-citizen of your birth country, especially so in America. It is both difficult and expensive to renounce citizenship there. 

I also disagree with your interpretation. I’ll wait and see what dire circumstances  I find myself in. Up to now I seem to be fine

[RocketDog]

7 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I also disagree with your interpretation. I’ll wait and see what dire circumstances  I find myself in. Up to now I seem to be fine

Again, disagreement is always your option. I wasn't arguing about that.

 

Otherwise I was stating undeniable facts regarding the jurisdiction of sovereign countries/states.

 

The sole arguable exception being that denying reality "often", not always, leads to bad ends. 

It is allowable to disagree with gravity, but doing so often leads to disagreeable ends. 

[Fairynuff]

Just now, RocketDog said:

Again, disagreement is always your option. I wasn't arguing about that.

 

Otherwise I was stating undeniable facts regarding the jurisdiction of sovereign countries/states.

 

The sole arguable exception being that denying reality "often", not always, leads to bad ends. 

It is allowable to disagree with gravity, but doing so often leads to disagreeable ends. 

I find your restating you’re opinions as facts over and over quite tedious so I’ll you to it. I’ve been here some considerable time, never called myself a guest and doing just fine. Enjoy your day and your visit to Thailand 

[Dante99]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

it is obvious that Thailand is virtually - if not really - covid-free after 36 days with no new cases reported.

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/coronavirus-asia-asean-live-updates-by-country/

Thailand

• The country saw six new cases on July 2, bringing the total to 3,179.
• Thailand recorded two new cases on July 1, taking its total to 3,173.
• Two new cases in Thailand on June 30, taking the national total to 3,171
• Four new cases on June 26, bringing the national total to 3,162.

Well Peter it seems that new cases continue to be reported in Thailand contrary to what you rant on about.  Do you have more false information for us?  We can hardly wait.

 

[johnpetersen]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

No, I am not that naive and most probably some cases will have slipped being detected, and of course the thai government has an interest in keeping the thai covid-case low.

But even so, it is obvious that Thailand is virtually - if not really - covid-free after 36 days with no new cases reported.  Even ONE case detected now would be Big News and touted all over.

So it's time to stop the scare-mongering.  The unnecessary continuation of enforcing the wearing of masks is a visual reminder of the 'We are in danger' perception.

The facts and data simply do not support that perception.

And don't come after 2 full cycles with the invisible asymptomatic ones as an excuse to keep this unneeded panic mode because we 'won't be safe for months to come'.  It's time to get a life!

 

Nearly 20% of Thailand's GDP can be credited to tourism. So it makes sense that Thailand is going to do everything it can not only to stop the spread of covid, but to assure foreigners that it is doing so. If wearing a mask means that you don't have a life, maybe you should look for the reason for that somewhere else rather than to the Thai government.

[Keesters]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:36 AM, 5633572526 said:

There is no law requiring you to wear a mask however I carry one with me and in the places where they have a sign asking you to wear one I have no problem complying with the request. Increasingly however at least in bkk there are fewer and fewer places requiring this. I am sitting now inside my favorite coffee shop where nobody Thai or farang is wearing a mask and there is no requirement for social distancing. 

You also play Russian Roulette. 

[cardinalblue]

The concept of a mask is an integral part of PPE...its findings though are based In occupational settings, specific design to combat specific contaminats and studies that validate their effectiveness...

 

much less is known and definitely less effective when masks (any old mask seems to do mentality) are transferred to general population usage w/o specifics, training, education and usage testing...

 

As a health and safety professional, any mask will do when the contaminant is now known not to be present in thailand....it’s all about image and compliance that the gov wants to project...

 

if I was in a prevalent environment say like America, at a minimum would use a properly sized N-95 after a qualitative fit test by a professional..

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 6/29/2020 at 8:07 PM, Trujillo said:

So given these facts, why are we required to wear a mask?

Pollution???  Also, there are the old pandemics of the flu and common cold that mask wearing will have a substantial impact on. And then there are the swine and avian flues. After all, "while the 1918 H1N1 virus has been synthesized and evaluated, the properties that made it so devastating are not well understood," according to the USA CDC.

 

Besides, it helps the 7/11 and gold shop thieves to look less conspicuous before, during or after the deed. If they remember to change their clothes, shades and mask design it becomes very hard to identify them. ???? 

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:26 PM, Dante99 said:

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/coronavirus-asia-asean-live-updates-by-country/

Thailand

• The country saw six new cases on July 2, bringing the total to 3,179.
• Thailand recorded two new cases on July 1, taking its total to 3,173.
• Two new cases in Thailand on June 30, taking the national total to 3,171
• Four new cases on June 26, bringing the national total to 3,162.

Well Peter it seems that new cases continue to be reported in Thailand contrary to what you rant on about.  Do you have more false information for us?  We can hardly wait.

 

@Dante99

Peter's info was correct. His is taken from the population who have been 'in Thailand'. Yours are correct. They are taken from the people who arrived in Thailand and are in quarantine.  Why is you comment followed with such obvious cattiness?

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

They are taken from the people who arrived in Thailand and are in quarantine. 

I do not think that is correct.  

 

It is clear that you and Peter are very loose with your language, making factual errors spreading mis information but I shall no longer be a part of your game.

[Peter Denis]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:26 PM, Dante99 said:

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/coronavirus-asia-asean-live-updates-by-country/

Thailand

• The country saw six new cases on July 2, bringing the total to 3,179.
• Thailand recorded two new cases on July 1, taking its total to 3,173.
• Two new cases in Thailand on June 30, taking the national total to 3,171
• Four new cases on June 26, bringing the national total to 3,162.

Well Peter it seems that new cases continue to be reported in Thailand contrary to what you rant on about.  Do you have more false information for us?  We can hardly wait.

 

3 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

@Dante99

Peter's info was correct. His is taken from the population who have been 'in Thailand'. Yours are correct. They are taken from the people who arrived in Thailand and are in quarantine.  Why is you comment followed with such obvious cattiness?

 

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

I do not think that is correct.  

 

It is clear that you and Peter are very loose with your language, making factual errors spreading mis information but I shall no longer be a part of your game.

 

You think but you think wrong, and @AgMech Cowboy is fully correct.

The new cases you mentioned in your post of 2 July, ALL came from abroad.

Here the link with all case information on a day-by-day basis > https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/news.php

Why is it so hard to admit that Thailand is Covid-free and that there is no reasonable argument anymore after almost 3 full cycles with no new cases, to support the necessity of face-masking at this stage.

 

[mike787]

Forget the mask...it's a waste of cash, time and nuisance.  I say do what you want. 

[Trujillo]

The "new cases" brought up are NOT local. They are Thais returning from outside the country. They are imported cases (from repatriation flights) and are immediately quarantined and do not interact with the general population. My original post stands as is. 

 

"So there's a whole army of asymptomatic carriers out there infecting people who may or may not be getting anything."

 

Incorrect. I'm sorry to keep repeating this, but you don't have the disease inside of you forever (as a constant carrier). This is what is tested for in antibody tests -- who HAD the disease but is over it now, not carrying the disease, not infectious. This goes with the "herd immunity" concept. 

 

There are only four ways we will have a genuinely local new case: 

 

1.  Someone or some people came into the country illegally outside a border check area/immigration post who were infected, then mingled with the general population. 

Unlikely, but not totally impossible. 

 

2. A hospital worker tending a returned infected person inadvertently becomes infected from them and accidentally transmits it to a member of the general population. 

Unlikely, but not totally impossible. 

 

3. A cluster of isolated people in an isolated village "foster" the virus, infecting throughout their small population, but never coming into contact with outsiders or seeking any organized medical care that would identify their covid infections, until someone did go to a hospital.

Practically impossible. 

 

4. A false positive test. 

Possible, but in which case would not add a new case (since there was no case).