56 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

It was Thalidimide that brought about most of the precautionary testing systems now applied to new pharmacies.

Vaccines are mostly made on previous forms and modified  to act directly against specific targets. Expectation of any side effects are reasonably predictably generic but extended trials are mainly cautionary.

 

Cautionary, if they are so reasonably predictable why bother then. They  bother because they are not sure enough for  all cases.

35 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

let's say if I didn't want to be vaccinated for now (too early) why the hell should I allow some dipstick in office to tell me I should get one or else, you have got to be kidding right ? 

unfortunately,   they are NOT kidding .............

 

i think it is fairly obvious that the "rulers" are not the brightest bulbs in the room .   But they are very

good at wielding their power.  

I think I’ll stick to my immune system ????

And politicians better stick to keeping stuff like vaccines “voluntary” or else some police and doctor enforcers could end up with something stuck in their neck. Mothers and healthy people don’t take these things lightly, and rightly so!

 

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Those were people taking part in tests , they were paid to do so .

As we are talking about a Covid vaccine which  will have already been tested , that story you posted is irrelevant to this discussion 

I assume that you wouldn't take the Covid vaccine if the developers or the vaccine or members of your Goverment  declined to take the vaccine 1st

19 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Do you jump from airplane if somebody else has packaged your parachute? Yes i will take vaccine but not right away!

Depends whether the airplane is skyborne and in trouble. 

In the case of covid, to complete the analogy, I wouldn't jump at all, but would simply wait till after taxiing on the runway the plane came to a stand-still.

Note: I wouldn't deny my fellow passengers the right to jump out of the moving plane if they think that's the safer way to exit, but would advise against it and would object if they tried to force me in doing same.

 

25 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Right, so you would take the vaccine, you just dont like being told to take the vaccine 

Are you serious, where on earth in a democratic country have you heard of a government forcing it's people to get vaccinated before, I used the word "forced" because mandatory doesn't fit into the context of the word.

 

Mandatory not to speed, mandatory to wear a helmet, mandatory is a word governed by law, rules, but you should not be able to force a normal individual to take a drug/vaccine if they don't want to, that is my point, and if you cannot see through that, then there is something is clearly wrong with how you see things, in other words that is an abuse of power.

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Thalidomide is still used for multiple afflictions. But not knowingly to pregnant women.

Hardly comparable to a vaccine for transmissible infection.

That is true, and I'm PRO vaccine....BUT.........

It's the potential, possible long-term side effects of a vaccine that concern me.

With the expedited testing being done world-wide, we cannot know what these will be and will not know for some years as it's surely impossible to cover every combination of human condition.

Trouble is, if we want the world to go back to what it was before CV, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't ????

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Are you serious, where on earth in a democratic country have you heard of a government forcing it's people to get vaccinated before,

 

You've already admitted children have to be vaccinated to attend school in Oz

3 minutes ago, VBF said:

...

Trouble is, if we want the world to go back to what it was before CV, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't ????

Correction > WE ARE TOLD we are damned if we don't.  ????

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Correction > WE ARE TOLD we are damned if we don't.  ????

No....we ARE dammed because of all the restrictions imposed upon us, which may or may not be lifted until or unless we get vaccinated.

43 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Who's pushing to deploy a vaccine for Covid in Australia prior to successful completion of clinical trials?

That is besides the point.

 

If you read through his words starting off in the video, whereby he said, he has a strong view on vaccines....stop, that's his view......then he went onto say, if you would recall I was the social services minister who implemented no jab, no play.....stop......so he is threatening people saying if you don't line up, we will implement tactics that will hit you in the pocket, whether it be through Centrelink or other.

 

Have a listen to 0.49-0.53 in the video where he said we will be seeking its most widespread application as we do for all important vaccines, then he introduces his sidekick to avoid any questions but not before he says he will be doing it in partnership with all states and territories, in other words, they have done the deal. The acting chief medical officer then trying to sell it, we are sure there will be long queues etc etc etc.

 

Why do you think he didn't come out saying we would like all Australians to get behind this, because when you have an audience that is like sheep, they listen to the words you want to tell them so that they are convinced, at no time did he say that there are risks with vaccines, did he.

 

My point is he drove this the way he wanted to drive it, as if it's mandatory, if its not, then why would he be talking about no jab no play, of which meant to say no pay, because people wouldn't get certain payments if their children didn't get vaccinated.

16 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You've already admitted children have to be vaccinated to attend school in Oz

That is exactly my point, why would you need to force people to be vaccinated if they didn't want to be, I mean the reason you vaccinate is to protect others, isn't it, so if someone doesn't want to be protected, then why penalise them ?

 

What are you going to tell me next, that I have to wear a condom, shouldn't that be up to me and the person I am having sex with.

 

Wouldn't it be better to say, look if you don't get vaccinated, the medical bills are on you if you get admitted to hospital, as opposed to Medicare covering you.

 

But to stop kids from an education because they want them to be vaccinated is outrages and just wrong.

 

No government should have that right.

 

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That is exactly my point, why would you need to force people to be vaccinated if they didn't want to be, I mean the reason you vaccinate is to protect others, isn't it, so if someone doesn't want to be protected, then why penalise them ?

 

What are you going to tell me next, that I have to wear a condom, shouldn't that be up to me and the person I am having sex with.

 

Wouldn't it be better to say, look if you don't get vaccinated, the medical bills are on you if you get admitted to hospital, as opposed to Medicare covering you.

 

But to stop kids from an education because they want them to be vaccinated is outrages and just wrong.

 

No government should have that right.

 

As long as the people who refuse to get vaccinated, sign an agreement that if they do contract the virus, then they will receive no treatment in public hospitals and get no financial help from the Government or anything at all from the state 

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

No....we ARE dammed because of all the restrictions imposed upon us, which may or may not be lifted until or unless we get vaccinated.

Simple solutions are the easiest to sell > once we have a vaccine, it's just a matter of 'giving' it to everybody and problem solved.  And in mean time waiting for that Wonder Solution nobody will object to all the restrictions because they are for the Common Good.  And obviously these restrictions also help boost the anticipation for the Coming of the Vaccine Messiah that will magically get rid of covid and we can go live again happily ever after.

Unfortunately the vaccine narrative is just that: a Fairy Tale, and a false one on top of that.

Establishing a well-thought out 'Going Back to Normal' plan and gradually and step-by-step rolling it out, is of course more difficult but will be necessary to get out of this terrible largely self-inflicted mess.

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

so if someone doesn't want to be protected, then why penalise them ?

 

Because it's been proven Covid is extremely infectious and expensive to mitigate. Number of studies now concluding Covid can have ongoing serious after effects, including children, for survivors - more expense to the taxpayer. Covid it not 'just another flu'. To go against professional medical advice, upon which Morrison would be basing his decisions, is contrary to the wellbeing of the majority.

 

 

He @as mandatory as it can be@ which means not at all.

The Parliament will not and cannot "mandate" individual health care health care.

 

What they may attempt, is to put some restriction of movement between states, ( that would have to be a decision of each state parliament). Airlines may wish to see certificates "fit for travel" including vaccination before allowing you to board, stay in a hotel room etc.

 

 

 

 

news.com.au1:17

 

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed there was an "overreaction" to his suggestion the COVID-19 vaccine would be as "mandatory as possible".

Today, Mr Morrison revealed a COVID-19 vaccine could be rolled out to Australians as early as next year, provided it is safe to use.

Speaking to 3AW’s Neil Mitchell this morning, he said it needed to be administered to about 95 per cent of the population to be effective.

“I would expect it to be as mandatory as you can possibly make it,” he told the radio host.

But now Mr Morrison has explained on 2GB that the vaccination won’t be compulsory, though it will be “encouraged”.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/live-coronavirus-victoria-melbourne-covid19-updates/live-coverage/2b717770403add940cfdf297b6590a3a

 

48 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

As long as the people who refuse to get vaccinated, sign an agreement that if they do contract the virus, then they will receive no treatment in public hospitals and get no financial help from the Government or anything at all from the state 

Treatment in public hospitals only if they pay for it themselves. Financial assistance like family support as in A & B payments which is support for the raising of the kids in low income families should continue regardless, e.g. it's not the kids fault if the parents don't want them vaccinated, so no need to s-h-i-t- on them, they are just kids.

Removed a troll post (unintelligible and no link to the alleged source)

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's because uneducated idiots such as those who are in power have instilled fear through media. If he thinks the Australian public won't revolt, he is misguided !

 

Australians won't take lightly to the powers above trying to control us over a flu, watch the s-h-i-t hit the fan. 

 

We are not sheep and do vote, no play, no jab, your f'n kidding mate, your days are numbered as PM if you think you can push forward with this plan.

 

We do not elect people into power to take away our rights, it is up to individuals to make the decision without being threatened, blood-y idiot.

so what happens if being vaccinated is tied to accessibility to travel and enter other countries, perhaps an attachment to your passport? To stand for your principles are you willing to give up the freedom of leaving your country? If so, no problem then..

3 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Not the Thai Hill tribe kind of "Karens" ?

Karen is a felang Females name and people use that name to denote low class common typical females  

How did you manage to 'classify' the class by the name?

Is the method available on the internet for parents to choose their children's names?

???? ????

38 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Because it's been proven Covid is extremely infectious and expensive to mitigate. Number of studies now concluding Covid can have ongoing serious after effects, including children, for survivors - more expense to the taxpayer. Covid it not 'just another flu'. To go against professional medical advice, upon which Morrison would be basing his decisions, is contrary to the wellbeing of the majority.

 

 

Would like to see a link to that, no doubting what your saying, but I need to see things for myself, because I have always said, shutting down borders for Covid is wrong, unless they are hiding something from us and not wanting us to know because they don't want to panic us.

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Treatment in public hospitals only if they pay for it themselves. Financial assistance like family support as in A & B payments which is support for the raising of the kids in low income families should continue regardless, e.g. it's not the kids fault if the parents don't want them vaccinated, so no need to s-h-i-t- on them, they are just kids.

Under the Australian legislation governing medicare and public hospitals this could not happen 

11 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

 

 

news.com.au1:17

 

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed there was an "overreaction" to his suggestion the COVID-19 vaccine would be as "mandatory as possible".

Today, Mr Morrison revealed a COVID-19 vaccine could be rolled out to Australians as early as next year, provided it is safe to use.

Speaking to 3AW’s Neil Mitchell this morning, he said it needed to be administered to about 95 per cent of the population to be effective.

“I would expect it to be as mandatory as you can possibly make it,” he told the radio host.

But now Mr Morrison has explained on 2GB that the vaccination won’t be compulsory, though it will be “encouraged”.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/live-coronavirus-victoria-melbourne-covid19-updates/live-coverage/2b717770403add940cfdf297b6590a3a

 

That's a bit more Australian as opposed to telling us he is going to jab us regardless. Might have felt a little backlash ?

 

Thx

6 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

so what happens if being vaccinated is tied to accessibility to travel and enter other countries, perhaps an attachment to your passport? To stand for your principles are you willing to give up the freedom of leaving your country? If so, no problem then..

Will wait to see when that happens, as I said, I am not anti vaccine, I am anti government trying to tell me I have to take the jab, the decision lays with me, not the government, this is not a military in government last I checked.

3 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Under the Australian legislation governing medicare and public hospitals this could not happen 

They can change laws as they do, day in, day out to suit themselves.

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

Will wait to see when that happens, as I said, I am not anti vaccine, I am anti government trying to tell me I have to take the jab, the decision lays with me, not the government, this is not a military in government last I checked.

oh, I agree it should be down to you to get injected, that's only being ethical. But I do believe there will be a worldwide restriction on travelling if you decide not to do it, at the very least IO's around the globe scrutinizing your medical paperwork or perhaps airlines not allowing boarding without proof..

7 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

 

 

news.com.au1:17

 

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed there was an "overreaction" to his suggestion the COVID-19 vaccine would be as "mandatory as possible".

Today, Mr Morrison revealed a COVID-19 vaccine could be rolled out to Australians as early as next year, provided it is safe to use.

Speaking to 3AW’s Neil Mitchell this morning, he said it needed to be administered to about 95 per cent of the population to be effective.

“I would expect it to be as mandatory as you can possibly make it,” he told the radio host.

But now Mr Morrison has explained on 2GB that the vaccination won’t be compulsory, though it will be “encouraged”.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/live-coronavirus-victoria-melbourne-covid19-updates/live-coverage/2b717770403add940cfdf297b6590a3a

 

The truth of his  initial intended meaning is probably somewhere  between the two.

Political suicide would be to  declare a "compulsory"  vaccination  program but as is done with school policy which do compel children comply  with vaccination criteria ( with certain exceptions) it is more likely that in occupational situations it would be also a compulsory. Again that already exists in Health employment  at all levels for  Hepatitis and  M.R.S screening as a protection  for the wider community.

As someone has already described the Airline Industry could also require a mandatory vaccination  certificate as a pre condition  to  boarding an aircraft.

Like it or not it is  more likely than not that public expectations will mandate the requirement .

That's why they are locked in, mandatory covid-19 jabs, you won't be able to leave without being vaccinated. Fauci has said no mandatory vaccine in the USA.

 

Flu vaccines are not mandatory, so why make covid-19 vaccine mandatory. Six times more people are dying from flu and pneumonia in the UK than covid-19 now. This will come down to freedom of choice and I expect a backlash in countries trying to force people to comply.

and why should others be put at risk in the shopping centre or anywhere just because ' don't tell me what to do '   didn't want the jab.   ?

I wouldn't allow anyone into my restaurant, shopping centre or anywhere else for that matter if it puts my other customers who did accept the vaccine at risk.