Tourists coming to Thailand - they must have enough funds to support themselves, says business leader

[ChipButty]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe they could offset foreigners unpaid hospital bills against Thai Airways unpaid foreign bills (200BillionBht).

Dont forget the refunds

[Banana7]

15 minutes ago, Poet said:

Would you mind me asking, how old was this guy?

I would imagine that most of those who die in hospital would be here on retirement, so, there is notionally 800,000 to be recovered right there, and possibly a house or condo too.

If it is the case that some of these deaths are young folks, possibly here on a work visa, education visa, or perhaps even tourists, well, okay, I'll reluctantly admit that there is some argument for insisting that everyone be insured. Before they put an additional burning tire on the neck of their tourist industry, however, they should be absolutely certain that this genuinely is a problem big enough to be worth crippling that income.

In fact, I would argue that, at the same time as introducing an insurance requirement, they should balance it out by getting rid of all short-term visas (tourism, education, volunteer, medical etc) and simply have an up to one year visa waiver for all countries eligible for the current visa waiver. You present your insurance cert, from any credible insurance company, and the IO stamps you in until the final date of your coverage. In a sense, your insurance becomes your visa.

 

He was an American 72 years old on a retirement visa. He had a condo, but had transferred it into his girlfriend's name after his first stroke, so technically and legally, it was his girlfriend's condo. The visa was arranged by a 'visa agent' which cost him 13,000 baht annually. He had a car but his girlfriend used it mostly. His bitcoin account had a balance of about USD$300,000. He had pension money coming into to USA accounts and a online business selling stuff. He kept cash in condo vault (don't know the amount) and about 50,000- 100,000 cash in a Thai bank account, which he refilled from bitcoin and his USA accounts, as needed. He didn't live a lavish lifestyle and had health problems, a stroke a few years prior to his death.

 

[Ganesh108]

I can't think of any other country that I travel to regularly ever having mentioned the words 'tourist' and 'burden' in the same sentence. What makes Thais so paranoid? 

 

Thais still think their country is Shangri-La, irresistible no matter what obstacles they put in the way. Waking up will be very painful.  

 

 

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, orlov said:

Tourists cannot open a Thai bank account. You have to prove some form of residency before a Thai bank will consider your application. 

 

They will more likely request proof of funds in country of residence when visa is applied for...as I think was usually done in the past for METV.

 

That and proof of insurance that covers you while in Thailand.

 

 

[Oldie]

44 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Other than hospital bills, shiort stay tourists are not usually a problem in terms of burden but issues occur regularly with resident expats growing old, being unable to care for themselves anymore/pay their rent etc. Usually end in deportation but often with outstanding bills left behind and having to hit up relatives back home to pay for the return flight.

 

Many old retired expats can't get a health insurance. So better to increase for uninsured people the 800.000 Baht deposit amount. And they also need to go after immigration officers and visa agents who help people that don't fulfill the financial requirements.

[Poet]

20 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

The visa was arranged by a 'visa agent' which cost him 13,000 baht annually.

Ah.

Perhaps the 800K requirement should just be abolished in favor of comprehensive insurance from international providers that can't be faked by agents and corrupt IOs. That would cost more than these agent bribes, but would at least give all these retired guys peace of mind.

Of course, the banks wouldn't like losing all those 800K deposits, and the IOs would be aghast at losing the perfect opportunity for bribes, but it would solve the problem.

Okay, much to my surprise, I am now, for the very first time, in favor of mandatory insurance, but only if it can be from the customer's choice of insurer, from any country, and only if other ridiculous requirements are dropped. Just let everyone be here on an annual basis, let them present their new insurance each year, and don't require anyone to jump through the hoops of leaving the country in order to renew. Let them, instead, spend that visa run money in Thailand.

Then, in 2030, when tourism income starts getting close to 2019 levels again, they can reintroduction all the dumb rules again.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Poet

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

I take your word for it but, honestly, I have no idea how that is actually happening. Anytime I have gone to a hospital, paying has not been optional. Same goes for restaurants, 7-Eleven, my hairdresser, massage shops. How hard can it be to prevent sick people from doing a legger? I've never heard anyone talk about doing it.

Could the extent of this problem genuinely outweigh the money made from tourism, retirees, remittances to girlfriends etc?

It seems to me that can't possibly be true. Perhaps you have some chancers, but that shortfall is surely just a rounding error when set against spending by Westerners in general. That is the big picture they should be focusing on, and not screwing up their main gig with complicated and ever-changing requirements.

 

I’d be curious to know how many of these unpaid bills are from Cambodian, Laotian and Burmese migrant workers and Thailand, knowing that you can’t squeeze water from a rock, are forcing retirees from developed countries to essentially foot the bills via insurance policies with premiums that are not in line with the true cost of services rendered.  
 

Cash pay healthcare in Thailand is 1/10th to 1/20th of the cash pay cost back in the US yet the policy premiums here don’t appear to reflect that fact.

[ThomasThBKK]

  

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

Unfortunately yes, many cases of foreigners becoming a burden in Thailand, especially (but not only) as regards hospital bills

 

No, the details have not been released and probably not yet even worked out.

 

If history is any guide they will be very convoluted, poorly explained, subject to varying interpretations and very hard to implement.  A similar scheme to allow medical tourism to resume that was supposed to be in effect in July is still largely dysfunctional.

 

 

 

Disagree, all economic data points in the exact opposite direction.

You cannot judge the situation on a single failed broke begpacker or a broke retiree that can't pay his hospital bills - you HAVE to look at the net off all tourists coming here and on AVERAGE spend way more money then they cost thailand.

 

Tourism is 20% of the GDP for a reason, and that's the only thing that matters here. One guy not paying his hospital bill is so absolutely irrelevant for the economy as he will ALWAYS be outnumbers by 10 guys paying their hospital bills. 

There's always bad apples, no matter where people come from and they will always be outnumbered by paying guests.

The damage to the economy is so absolutely minimal that a bunch of non-paying guests can cause and absolutely outnumbered by the benefits the rest of tourists are bringing.

 

This is just the usual thai blame game...  

 

 

 

[Oldie]

2 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

  

Disagree, all economic data points in the exact opposite direction.

You cannot judge the situation on a single failed broke begpacker or a broke retiree that can't pay his hospital bills - you HAVE to look at the net off all tourists coming here and on AVERAGE spend way more money then they cost thailand.

 

Tourism is 20% of the GDP for a reason, and that's the only thing that matters here. One guy not paying his hospital bill is so absolutely irrelevant for the economy as he will ALWAYS be outnumbers by 10 guys paying their hospital bills. 

There's always bad apples, no matter where people come from and they will always be outnumbered by paying guests.

The damage to the economy is so absolutely minimal that a bunch of non-paying guests can cause and absolutely outnumbered by the benefits the rest of tourists are bringing.

 

This is just the usual thai blame game...  

 

Great approach. If one doesn't pay the bill no problem because others pay their bill. The same can be applied to restaurants, hotels and whatever? 

[KeeTua]

1 hour ago, Banana7 said:

Some foreigners die here, after being in the hospital for numerous days. I know one guy in Pattaya, had a bill of over 1,000,000 baht from the Bangkok Pattaya hospital, when he died. The hospital tried to locate his friends to pay the bill. Needless to say, no one admitted being his friend. I imagine he isn't the only foreigner who has left a hospital with an outstanding debt.

The private hospitals are in it for profit and set the rates accordingly. Since they tend to charge foreign patients at a much higher rate than Thai patients they likely already calculated in the occasional loss like any well run business does to insure a decent profit.

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’d be curious to know how many of these unpaid bills are from Cambodian, Laotian and Burmese migrant workers and Thailand, knowing that you can’t squeeze water from a rock, are forcing retirees from developed countries to essentially foot the bills via insurance policies with premiums that are not in line with the true cost of services rendered.  
 

Cash pay healthcare in Thailand is 1/10th to 1/20th of the cash pay cost back in the US yet the policy premiums here don’t appear to reflect that fact.

 

There is  a mandatory health insurance scheme for migrant workers (puts them under the 30 baht scheme for a payment of under 2000 baht a year), developed for this reason.

 

Unless you are referring to government hospitals you are out of date on health care costs here, which have risen enormously in recent years.  More like 1/2 - 1/3 US costs and for some things, as much or more.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

I take your word for it but, honestly, I have no idea how that is actually happening. Anytime I have gone to a hospital, paying has not been optional.

I have a good idea, having witnessed exactly that at a local public hospital. 

 

Yep, there's an easy way to leave a hospital w/o bothering to with the cashier. Not only the hospital, but Thailand itself without paying so much as a satang in airfares, overstay charges, or exit tax; without, in fact, even bothering to wave your passport at Thai Immigration.

 

Flip off all those brown uniforms and soar directly to that great beer bar in the sky, to music, balloons, colored lights, a cold beer Chang, and lovely smiling  birds, not to mention a cheerful crowd of hail-fellow-well-met farang who'd earlier also met their fates in Thailand. It's what many an old expat dreams of!????

 

1 hour ago, Banana7 said:

Some foreigners die here, after being in the hospital for numerous days. I know one guy in Pattaya, had a bill of over 1,000,000 baht from the Bangkok Pattaya hospital, when he died. The hospital tried to locate his friends to pay the bill. Needless to say, no one admitted being his friend. I imagine he isn't the only foreigner who has left a hospital with an outstanding debt.

 

 

[Chivas]

My annual insurer has completely removed Covid from its coverage. There no £50,000 coverage or £100,000 etc etc to show any immigration official up front

What they've added is coverage should you have to cancel in advance from Covid or curtail once on holiday but no "up front coverage" and certainly no indication what they'll cover for "curtailment in resort"

 

Big reinsurer as well so it will be affecting at least 50% of policies underwritten out of the UK

 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

But Suphan Mongkhonsuthee, chief of the Federation of Thai Industries stressed that any visitors must comply with all the visa paperwork and prove they have plenty of funds so that they are not a burden on Thailand.

typical monday post from government office.... just another one venting because full of hot air, pathetic  555

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

  

 

Disagree, all economic data points in the exact opposite direction.

You cannot judge the situation on a single failed broke begpacker or a broke retiree that can't pay his hospital bills - you HAVE to look at the net off all tourists coming here and on AVERAGE spend way more money then they cost thailand.

 

Tourism is 20% of the GDP for a reason, and that's the only thing that matters here. One guy not paying his hospital bill is so absolutely irrelevant for the economy as he will ALWAYS be outnumbers by 10 guys paying their hospital bills. 

There's always bad apples, no matter where people come from and they will always be outnumbered by paying guests.

The damage to the economy is so absolutely minimal that a bunch of non-paying guests can cause and absolutely outnumbered by the benefits the rest of tourists are bringing.

 

This is just the usual thai blame game...  

 

 

 

 

I did not say that on balance foreigners are a net economic loss. Obviously they are not. I said there are cases where individual foreigners become a burden, and there are.

 

Can't blame the country for wanting to take measures to minimize that risk especially if considering long term tourist visas which are indeed likely to attract people budget travelers, digital nomads  and other people seeking a less expensive place to live/hang out for an extended period. 

 

The problem is that they (the Thai authorities) have difficulty coming up with visa and gravel measures that make sense, are clear, are feasible  and are consistently applied.

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

Western tourists sponging off Thailand and sucking the economy dry,

Now that is true and deep sarcasm at it's finest.  Wish I could think in such depravity, Wow

Edited September 14, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unless you are referring to government hospitals you are out of date on health care costs here, which have risen enormously in recent years.  More like 1/2 - 1/3 US costs and for some things, as much or more.

I paid my gastroenterologist at Vichaiyut ฿1000 for my recent visit.  It was up from ฿800.  The last appointment I had at UCLA (no more involved than here) I was billed $850.  As a cash pay patient, I am very aware of costs.  My colonoscopy here was ฿16,000.  UCLA quoted me $7-10,000   

[Sambotte]

24 minutes ago, Ganesh108 said:

I can't think of any other country that I travel to regularly ever having mentioned the words 'tourist' and 'burden' in the same sentence. What makes Thais so paranoid? 

 

Thais still think their country is Shangri-La, irresistible no matter what obstacles they put in the way. Waking up will be very painful.  

 

 

Yep that's really the problem, with the "dirty farangs" (no country i know ever would say those things officially). Like Thailand is not polite anymore.

And like Thailand really want to kill their tourism business. Could be actually.

[Saltire]

My wifes father is 93 and from Myanmar.

 

We pay 2,700 Baht per year direct to the regional hospital for cover for all his medical needs as being non-Thai he has to pay. If he is referred to the provincial hospital from the regional one, he is covered, but he can't just turn up, he has to be referred. I believe Lao and Cambodians are also eligible. As a cancer survivor and a diabetic, there are no restrictions for pre-existing conditions for him either.

 

If this was compulsory for all long term visitors you could just pay annually and show your cover along with the other 3 million pieces of paper required for an extension. I would gladly pay around 4 to 5k for cover each year, or more if the hospital was decent.

 

I have  good, but expensive and probably futile policy due to pre-existing conditions, but there has to be a simpler solution. Part of the problem for the Thai authorities is the sheer myriad of insurance companies and policies available.

 

As for Tourists, I entered here on my one and only tourist visa and I had to show UK funds to get it, can't recall how much but it was several thousands. Surely that would do for tourist visa applicants? I recall a proposal to charge 2 or 300 Baht on entry to cover tourists, that would work if they got the cover sorted out.

 

[JusticeGB]

Farangs don't generally spend their money in the expensive Chinese Thai owned shops unless they are green horns. This is why the Chinese tourists are welcome and not dirty farangs who spend their money in the smaller shops, restaurants, bars, clubs and help fund the dying buffaloes in the villages by renting wives.

[Bassosa]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

Unfortunately yes, many cases of foreigners becoming a burden in Thailand, especially (but not only) as regards hospital bills

 

No, the details have not been released and probably not yet even worked out.

 

If history is any guide they will be very convoluted, poorly explained, subject to varying interpretations and very hard to implement.  A similar scheme to allow medical tourism to resume that was supposed to be in effect in July is still largely dysfunctional.

 

 

Oh c'mon, a handful of old boys leaving their (private) hospital bills unpaid should not be grounds for such concerns and corresponding policy changes. Look at the income Thailand generates from visitors in relation to these unpaid medical business. It's nothing and shouldn't even be mentioned quite honestly. I agree with others, it's pure xenophobia.

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

I wonder just what Mr Mongkhonsuthee's field of business is. Certainly not anything connected with tourism! Offering mandatory overpriced insurance policies perhaps?

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

and fewer still are prepared to jump through the hoops the Thai authorities are placing in their way.

Agreed. Getting into Thailand is now harder than getting into Takeshi's Castle ! 

 

[yang123]

Easy!  Re-introduce the airport Departure tax: takings to be stored for disbursement against medical bills of runners. 

[scammed]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe they could offset foreigners unpaid hospital bills against Thai Airways unpaid foreign bills (200BillionBht).

yes, i think the government should pay part of the unpaid bills

that hospitals losses

[JonnyF]

45 minutes ago, Oldie said:

Great approach. If one doesn't pay the bill no problem because others pay their bill. The same can be applied to restaurants, hotels and whatever? 

If I owned an extremely profitable restaurant, I wouldn't make the terms of entry so onerous that everyone stopped coming simply because 1 in 10,000 customers didn't pay their bill.

 

I'd write if off as a cost of doing business and continue reaping the vast profits.

[heybuz]

2 hours ago, Reigntax said:

With the number of buffalos i have fixed and cared for they should be opening their arms and be welcoming me. Im sure others are the same.

Plus building shelters and feeding their daughters and other buffalos offspring.

[uli65]

I hope for the total destruction of the tourist sector, otherwise the will never learn to respect all the tourists and expats who has brought billions to this substandard country.

[qwertyuiop]

25 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Easy!  Re-introduce the airport Departure tax: takings to be stored for disbursement against medical bills of runners. 

As far as I am aware it was never discontinued. It is now simply a part of the ticket price 

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Would love to see true and untwisted statistics showing the "burden" foreigners putting on local health authorities

There were some stats published a year or two ago that showed the amount owed by farangs who didn't/couldn't pay their hospital bills.......must be on the net somewhere.