Waterfront Condo, the End?

[TaaSaparot]

https://www.facebook.com/Thepattayanews/posts/786470978770580

 

At a major Pattaya City meeting today Pattaya City delivered an ultimatum to the owners of the Waterfront Condo on Bali Hai. Tear it down, soon, or we will and bill you. The owners of the waterfront claim they can't find experts to demolish the building and referred to long ongoing legal issues 

[scubascuba3]

Yeah saw that on Facebook, so another 5+ years then 

[Pattaya Spotter]

I remember a decade ago when the developers of this project said it would rival the Burj Khalifa Tower in Dubai ????????????????

[aussiexpat]

Horrible eyesore, should sell tickets to see it blown up ????

[Guderian]

A shame to see it demolished when it's 75% complete. Rather than banging their heads against each other like a pair of buffaloes, can't the City and the developer reach some sort of compromise? It might be breaking the law as it stands, but so are quite a few other buildings in Pattaya (e.g. VT7, the Adriatic Palace hotel, not to mention the entire western side of Walking Street).

[johng]

2 minutes ago, Guderian said:

A shame to see it demolished when it's 75% complet

They should knock the top half off though as it spoils the view from the view points on  the hill behind it.

[scubascuba3]

I guess the people who did Thailand mistake no.1 I.e. buy off plan have never seen their money again

Edited September 27, 2020 by scubascuba3

[Grumpy one]

Plenty of would be terrorists would be happy to fine tune their training skills on this building

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

A shame to see it demolished when it's 75% complete. Rather than banging their heads against each other like a pair of buffaloes, can't the City and the developer reach some sort of compromise? It might be breaking the law as it stands, but so are quite a few other buildings in Pattaya (e.g. VT7, the Adriatic Palace hotel, not to mention the entire western side of Walking Street).

Totally agree.  I'd rather see some of the top floors taken off as a compromise and the project finished. 

[Kerryd]

If I recall correctly, I believe the developers had been previously ordered to remove the top 20 floors as what they built was not what they told the city they were going to do. When the city realized they were going way beyond what had been approved, that is when the legal problems started.

It's been a couple years now and the developer has not made any attempt to remove those top 20 floors or do any other work. I guess the city has finally had enough with the B.S. and finally gave them an ultimatum.

What I wonder though, is who initially approved the project and why wasn't there any municipal oversight on the project ? I would have thought there'd be at least a couple departments (engineering for example) keeping an eye on the construction. They should have known well beforehand what the developer was actually doing and if they were building above the number of floors that had been approved, the city should have known before the first drop of concrete was poured.

Wouldn't want something that big to go up and then topple over during the first storm that blows in after all. Might damage the reputation of the city (oh, and cause billions in damage and loss of life too maybe).

I'm guessing the developer probably doesn't care. Thailand doesn't have an escrow law apparently, so developers can splash a little cash, make a show (and showroom) and sucker people into investing into the project.
When enough people have coughed up the cash, the developer will start building. Most of those contracts have clauses in them that when building hits a certain plateau (i.e. 15% complete) it triggers another round of payments.

Basically, it seems they don't start building until they have your money in their pocket. If that money runs out (or they blow it all on "other things") then suddenly the project is cancelled or abandoned and the investors are left out in the cold.

Just ask the people who invested in Ocean 1 Tower in Jomtien. You know, that big, vacant lot right across from the Immigration office where the world's largest residential building was going to be built. Touted as going to be in the Top 10 tallest buildings in the world (at the time) if I recall. Slated to start construction in 2006 and completion in 2009.

They even had a webcam showing a cement production plant running on the site. People lol'd when they noticed all the cement being made was being trucked off somewhere else.
The webcam kept running for a couple years, even after the cement plant was knocked down and the area was left vacant. The official website ran for a few years as well (never updated of course) until the registration/hosting fee wasn't paid. (It's link to a gambling site now.)

I can imagine tearing down that "waterfront condo" will be quite the issue. Might be too big to do a controlled demolition on ? (No - I am not going to point at the World Trade Center buildings.)

Maybe if they angle it right and give it a good push, it will drop into the bay and become a part of the Bali Hai pier expansion !


 

[redwood1]

For you construction guys.....What % of the waterfront condo would you guess has already been completed? 

[sncoem]

I read this interesting article about this story

https://thepattayanews.com/2020/09/12/the-story-behind-the-abandoned-waterfront-condo-near-bali-hai-pier-in-pattaya/

 

 

[TaaSaparot]

8 hours ago, Kerryd said:

If I recall correctly, I believe the developers had been previously ordered to remove the top 20 floors as what they built was not what they told the city they were going to do. 

No, the developer OFFERED to remove floors to get permission to finish the building.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by TaaSaparot

[TaaSaparot]

7 hours ago, sncoem said:

I read this interesting article about this story

https://thepattayanews.com/2020/09/12/the-story-behind-the-abandoned-waterfront-condo-near-bali-hai-pier-in-pattaya/

This article seems to miss the main sticking points.

 

If I remember correctly:

 

The building should not be more than 60 metres, where it is 90 metres.

 

Part of the land it is built on, overlaps onto public land.

 

Plans originally was for a 315 room Condo, but this was then changed to 300 room Condo and 100 room hotel.

 

The number of parking spaces in the original design was reduced.

 

The others?

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by TaaSaparot

[couchpotato]

20 minutes ago, TaaSaparot said:

No, the developer OFFERED to remove floors to get permission to finish the building.

 

 

Actually you are both wrong. Developer did not offer any concessions, but was told to take off 8 floors of the tall tower, and convert 2-3 floors of the hotel into more parking.  It was at this time that officialdom took over and also Kobi E and Jason P divested their interests in the project and it was the up to the money man who actually resided in London. Since then silence from both sides, until a whimper now.

That is a quick overview, as this story, with all its twists and turns would take ages to explain, and of course it's not over yet.

[redwood1]

Its hilarious that any one could ever bring up any land use issues with the Waterfront when just blocks away the huge and ugly green turd parking garage was built on Pattayas only park with barely a whimper of protest and no investigation into that shady project.....

 

If the Waterfront was knocked down then the blue parking lot could be extended to make it larger........LOL..........People could admire and be proud of that addition to the blue parking lot for many many decades to come.......LOL.......  

Edited September 27, 2020 by redwood1

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, TaaSaparot said:

The others?

Wasn't there something about stairwells being narrowed and fewer/smaller elevators?

I am not expecting this to be resolved just yet, plenty of opportunity for further procrastination.

Is the company responsible still building elsewhere in town?

[Henryford]

They should just ring up George Bush, a few gallons of aviation fuel and it will come down in it's own footprint in seconds.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Henryford

[CRUNCHER]

Seeing the demolition in Miami reminded me of this one.

Any suggestions as to when the mayor will get round to it??

[johng]

1 minute ago, CRUNCHER said:

Any suggestions as to when the mayor will get round to it??

It will be another  Hopewell project

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/hopewell-the-ghost-transport-project-still-haunting-thailand-3-decades-on/

[redwood1]

There is a massive huge pile of money to be made from finishing this project......Especially considering almost certainly all the old debts and old investors would be kicked to the curb and all the units re-sold......

 

Anybody with half a brain could see this...... 

[jacko45k]

53 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

There is a massive huge pile of money to be made from finishing this project......Especially considering almost certainly all the old debts and old investors would be kicked to the curb and all the units re-sold......

 

Anybody with half a brain could see this...... 

But it is illegal and breaks planning regulations. Not to mention spoiling the Admiral's view.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

But it is illegal and breaks planning regulations. Not to mention spoiling the Admiral's view.

Easily remedied by knocking off the top dozen floors or so. 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Easily remedied by knocking off the top dozen floors or so. 

I suggest the bottom dozen floors....I was looking in that direction from The Beach recently.... an ugly monstrosity.

[scubascuba3]

Probably better to demolish it and start again, no one would trust the existing building

[Kerryd]

20 hours ago, newnative said:

Easily remedied by knocking off the top dozen floors or so. 

That was actually an option before. Supposedly the contractor/developer "added" 20 floors to the plan that had been approved previously. If I recall, at one point they were told (by the city) to remove those extra floors but didn't bother complying. As a result, work was halted on the project. (Probably so the people who'd been collecting money from "pre sales" wouldn't have to spend any more of it if the project was cancelled. Why risk walking away with a profit ?)

But there's all sorts of shenanigans going on with that whole project from the initial approvals to the construction halt. Like how they are encroaching on "public land" by building within 100 meters of the (ocean) waterline.
Except that they, and the city, got around that law by pretending they were going to extend Bali Hai further out, which would have moved the waterline out far enough for the building to be exempt.
Then, once everything was approved, that expansion project was cancelled.

Lots of lawsuits going on at the moment between the different parties (city, project owners, people who prepaid for condos, etc).

Which is probably why the city hasn't gone ahead with the planned demolition though they tendered the contract quite awhile ago.

I'm still expecting we'll get a really good storm one day that will end up toppling that structure. Could be a catastrophe depending on which way it falls.

[newnative]

12 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

That was actually an option before. Supposedly the contractor/developer "added" 20 floors to the plan that had been approved previously. If I recall, at one point they were told (by the city) to remove those extra floors but didn't bother complying. As a result, work was halted on the project. (Probably so the people who'd been collecting money from "pre sales" wouldn't have to spend any more of it if the project was cancelled. Why risk walking away with a profit ?)

But there's all sorts of shenanigans going on with that whole project from the initial approvals to the construction halt. Like how they are encroaching on "public land" by building within 100 meters of the (ocean) waterline.
Except that they, and the city, got around that law by pretending they were going to extend Bali Hai further out, which would have moved the waterline out far enough for the building to be exempt.
Then, once everything was approved, that expansion project was cancelled.

Lots of lawsuits going on at the moment between the different parties (city, project owners, people who prepaid for condos, etc).

Which is probably why the city hasn't gone ahead with the planned demolition though they tendered the contract quite awhile ago.

I'm still expecting we'll get a really good storm one day that will end up toppling that structure. Could be a catastrophe depending on which way it falls.

    All sorts of reasons have been given for the construction halt but the developer adding an extra 20 floors to the design is incorrect.   From Day 1, even before construction started, the building looked, in artist renderings, billboards, and website illustrations,  the way it turned out.  Basically, a lower-case backwards 'h'.   

    Anyone here at that time likely remembers the billboards advertising the project, pre-construction and during construction.  Had an extra 20 stories been tacked on, the building would have ended up looking quite different and there would have been an intervention long before the actual protests occurred when the building topped out.  

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

I'm still expecting we'll get a really good storm one day that will end up toppling that structure. Could be a catastrophe depending on which way it falls.

Despite what all the 911 conspiracy people say, and from what I saw of that one in Miami, I am betting straight down! I wish they would just get on with it, where are we now, 9 years on? It is  horrible eyesore.

 

[ivor bigun]

On 9/27/2020 at 5:10 PM, scubascuba3 said:

I guess the people who did Thailand mistake no.1 I.e. buy off plan have never seen their money again

A client of my wifes ,purchased one of the most expensive ones in the begining ,never seen a penny .luckily she was very rich