Re-Entry to Thailand - A beaurocratic nightmare

[Jen65]

35 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

While this might seem a little late I don’t believe it has been clarified .

Is the OP Portuguese or a resident of Portugal ??@Jen65 .

No, not Portuguese or resident in Portugal and the Thai Consulate there know that from my UK passport !!!  But they have still offered to give me a new O-A visa !!!  

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, Jen65 said:

No, not Portuguese or resident in Portugal and the Thai Consulate there know that from my UK passport !!!  But they have still offered to give me a new O-A visa !!!  

Okay just wanted to make sure.

 

If you do manage to obtain an OA at a Thai Embassy outside of your home country or country of residence it will be somewhat of a rarity .

There was a poster who claimed he had got an OA visa in this fashion but it was never confirmed and I believe it was some years ago.

 

If it was me in this situation I would be very wary and prepare an alternative option ( if one exists ) or postpone my trip if possible.

 

No doubt we will hear from you of the outcome, whichever way it goes.

 

I wish you good luck .

[Jen65]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay just wanted to make sure.

 

If you do manage to obtain an OA at a Thai Embassy outside of your home country or country of residence it will be somewhat of a rarity .

There was a poster who claimed he had got an OA visa in this fashion but it was never confirmed and I believe it was some years ago.

 

If it was me in this situation I would be very wary and prepare an alternative option ( if one exists ) or postpone my trip if possible.

 

No doubt we will hear from you of the outcome, whichever way it goes.

 

I wish you good luck .

Thanks. I have no alternative but to go out - to Brittany in France to get my Personal Effects loaded/shipped to Thailand which already delayed a long time and costing me a fortune in storage plus my car still to sell there !! Everything all arranged now - no going back .I really hope the Embassy is correct in obtaining an O-A visa for me otherwise I will have to fly to UK to do it and get documents / application transferred there but I still have to fly back to Thailand from Portugal !!!

 

[daveAustin]

On 10/14/2020 at 1:58 PM, Jen65 said:

my HOME country is Thailand and has been for 10years !!!  

You may have lived there, but it ain't your 'home' country bruv. To have that, you'd need Thai blood with Tabien baan or at the least citizenship/residency (read: not non-immigrant). Ubon means the place you were born / originally resided / entered Thailand on that passport etc. 

 

Hope it all works out. Must be a right ole ballache. 

[ukrules]

On 10/14/2020 at 5:37 PM, ubonjoe said:

The police clearance has to be done in your home country to apply for a OA visa. You are not a legal resident of Thailand.

That's what I was thinking, also if you have an OA visa already then you've already been through this saga and lived in Thailand which kind of negates the need for it at all....the whole system is nuts.

 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, Jen65 said:

Thanks. I have no alternative but to go out - to Brittany in France to get my Personal Effects loaded/shipped to Thailand which already delayed a long time and costing me a fortune in storage plus my car still to sell there !! Everything all arranged now - no going back .I really hope the Embassy is correct in obtaining an O-A visa for me otherwise I will have to fly to UK to do it and get documents / application transferred there but I still have to fly back to Thailand from Portugal !!!

Surely, you could employ an agent to take care of this for you. An agent should only cost a few thousand dollars, almost certainly cheaper than making the trip yourself, bearing in mind the unusual costs involved at the current time.

[RAZZELL]

I bet Old "Captain" won't be back for 6 months! ???? 

 

 

RAZZ

 

 

[Peter Denis]

8 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

...

If you do manage to obtain an OA at a Thai Embassy outside of your home country or country of residence it will be somewhat of a rarity .

There was a poster who claimed he had got an OA visa in this fashion but it was never confirmed and I believe it was some years ago.

...

Yes.  Approx two years ago there was a German national that did got a Non Imm O-A Visa from the Thai Embassy in Seoul (or HongKong).  BUT he later clarified that he was a permanent RESIDENT there.

I do wish OP all the luck but think that he will be in for a rude awakening when it turns out the Thai Embassy in Lissabon will not be able to provide him with the Non Imm O-A Visa (maybe they are under the impression that OP has dual citizenship, both UK and Portuguese).

Their correspondence with OP in which they indicated that they need to get in touch with Chonburi IO, is already tell-tale that his contact person does not know what they are talking about, as Embassies fall under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and there is no linkage with any in-country IOs.

>> But it would be a Clear First if OP managed to pull this off and for sure many on the Forum will be quite interested if he is indeed provided with the Visa.  So do keep us posted and wish you success in spite of the odds!

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, Jen65 said:

Still not sure about what to do with my current Re-Entry permit ????  Do I get it cancelled ?? ( Last chance tomorrow at Chonburi Immigration unless I can cancel it at airport ?)

Then I have to get a new O-A visa for certain to be able to come back .    If I waited outside for a while ( maybe not so long !) the Government may decide to let O visa holders /retirees back in ???  It would be great if Thai Visa rallies around the many of us in same situation and puts pressure to bear on the relevant authorities .  At the end of the day it is the Government that instructs the Immigration on what they can and can't do !!! 

You won't be able to cancel the Re-Entry permit by IO (but you could of course try, probably best chance at the IO in the departure hall of the international airport where you are flying out and which provides such Re-Entry Permits).

It's unfortunate you wasted money on that Re-Entry Permit which might even make things more difficult for you.  But be aware that there are only some foreign Embassies/Consulates that will make a problem of it when applying for a new Visa.  And in that case you could apply for a new passport and use that new passport to apply for the Visa (which will cover your tracks). 

[jomtienisgood]

21 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

non immigrant is not residence, especially in Thai mindset, your merely a visitor, like most of us. 

Not only in Th mindset, so says your Passport as well....

[superatoz]

what is OA , is it a retirement visa ?  pardon me im new to visa stff 

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

Not only in Th mindset, so says your Passport as well....

But not to the tax man !! 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, superatoz said:

what is OA , is it a retirement visa ?  pardon me im new to visa stff 

A OA visa is issued to those 50 or over at a embassy or consulate in your home country that allows one year entries for a year from the day it is issued. It is about the only visa that comes close to being called a retirement visa.

[Jen65]

14 hours ago, BritTim said:

Surely, you could employ an agent to take care of this for you. An agent should only cost a few thousand dollars, almost certainly cheaper than making the trip yourself, bearing in mind the unusual costs involved at the current time.

not possible my friend !   I have to be there to a) direct the vehicle to the storage b) Only certain things are going to Thailand and as I packed all and only I know what is going plus all have to be labelled ( which I have) . Would you trust a stranger to know what to pack / what to label - especially with antiques /valuables !!!   Anyway I have to load the remainder in my van and clear the unit , then drive to Portugal where my yacht is onshore in the boatyard and I have my own 20ft container storage unit !!  

[Jen65]

The latest on gaining a C of E from the Thai Embassy in Lisbon !!  It's all go so those that stated the visa can only be obtained in the country of my nationality ie UK are mistaken !!!  PLUS - no need to cancel my current visa or re-entry permit  !!! 

Of course what kills it for most that might go out or are stuck outside on an O visa and have to return on a new O-A visa is the fact that it requires the Insurance Policy and the monies in the bank (800,000  baht)   .I have always erred on the safety side and complied with the O-A requirement so for me it is no problem and I was always a "p***d off*  that I complied with a medical policy that any foreign individual should maintain yet those on O visas issued here did not !  You can't expect the Thai state to pick up the tab !!!

 

 

No need to cancel your re-entry permit.

 

Your current health insurance policy is acceptable. No need to terminate it right now. 

Hide original message

 

On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 02:04, Graham Wolstenholme <[email protected]> wrote:

 

Bom dia / Good morning Kittipod

 

Many thanks for your email and I am really pleased to hear everything is in order to apply for a new O-A via yourselves .

 

aa)I have just completed the ACRO application online for  UK Criminal Background check and clearance  .   I have paid the higher fee ( 100pds) in order they process within 4 working days PLUS have requested they send 1 copy directly to you in Lisbon and mark the envelope "Ref:visa application Graham Wolstenholme"     1 copy to be sent to my address in Thailand.

 

bb)Regarding my current Non O retirement visa and not needing to cancel that - understood .    Just one question on the Re-Entry Permit ? Do I need to cancel that ?

 

cc)My Health/Medical Insurance policy with Pacific Cross meets all the requirements for application for Non-Immigrant Visa Type O-A (period not exceeding 1 year) .  I have certificate from Pacific Cross showing this BUT the period of insurance runs from 01/09/2020 to 31/08/2021 .

I renew this Policy on an Annual Basis and have been a client of Pacific Cross for several years .  

To have the policy run from the date of proposed new Visa ( date not yet officially known )  Pacific Cross would have to terminate my Policy and re-issue a new Policy and I would loose a lot of money because of penalty fee .Also there is now no time for me to request / attend to this .

I would request that you accept that this is a recurring policy , renewed on the anniversary date as I have done in the past .

 

Kind Regards

Capt Graham Wolstenholme

 

Attachments : 

Pacific Cross Health Insurance Certificates ( Thai and English )

 

  

 

 

On Friday, 16 October 2020, 05:11:36 GMT+7, Thai Consul Lisbon <[email protected]> wrote:

 

 

Dear Capt . Graham C Wolstenholme,

 

1. You can submit your criminal record issued by ACROS. We have just granted a Non OA via to a British citizen who submitted his criminal record issued by ACROS.

 

2. I have already checked with the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok and I was confirmed that you do not need to cancel your Non O Retirement visa in order to apply for another visa. 

 

3. In addition to the COVID insurance coverage requirement, please also check if your health insurance if you are medically insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
– Outpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than 40,000 THB or 1,100 Euro, and
– Inpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than 400,000 THB or 11,000 Euro
 

Kind regards, 

 

Kittipod

 

Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

 

 

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 2:25 AM Graham Wolstenholme <[email protected]> wrote:

 

Attn :Kittipod Hongsombud

Minister Counsellor

Consular Section

Royal Thai Embassy 

Rua de Alcolena 12, Restelo 

1400-005 

Lisboa, Portugal 

Tel: (351) 21301 4848

 

Bom dia / Good day Kittipod,

 

I have items that I need to complete / clarify in order to obtain a new O-A visa :

aa) I currently have a valid "O" retirement visa extension of stay and valid re-entry permit .     Do I need to get these cancelled before I leave Thailand because someone tell me that I can not apply / have another visa when I already have one that is valid ?

 

bb) I now understand that the Police Criminal Record Check has to be from the country where I was resident prior to moving to Thailand and can not be done here in Thailand , even after living here for 10 years , because I am not "resident " unless I have permanent residence or am a Thai national .  

      I can complete the Criminal Record Check online as the UK has a website "ACROS"  where one submits all the information/documents and the Certificate emailed.

 

In case I am delayed returning to Thailand I have therefore made a "Power of Attorney" to deal with my affairs in Thailand during my absence,

 

Kind Regards

Capt . Graham C Wolstenholme

   

 

[Peter Denis]

49 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

The latest on gaining a C of E from the Thai Embassy in Lisbon !!  It's all go so those that stated the visa can only be obtained in the country of my nationality ie UK are mistaken !!!  PLUS - no need to cancel my current visa or re-entry permit  !!! 

...

Truly amazing, that the Thai Embassy in Portugal will provide you as UK citizen and no Portuguese passport or permanent residency there, with a Non Imm O-A Visa.

But good for you, so congrats of pulling this off.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Jen65 said:

not possible my friend !   I have to be there to a) direct the vehicle to the storage b) Only certain things are going to Thailand and as I packed all and only I know what is going plus all have to be labelled ( which I have) . Would you trust a stranger to know what to pack / what to label - especially with antiques /valuables !!!   Anyway I have to load the remainder in my van and clear the unit , then drive to Portugal where my yacht is onshore in the boatyard and I have my own 20ft container storage unit !!  

There is a point where the use of an agent becomes impractical, but the circumstances need to be extreme. Using Skype with the agent when they are at the storage facility can usually deal with issues of ensuring correct selection and separation. You should not usually need to worry about pilfering by a good agent. Anyway, of course I do not have all the facts, and it could certainly be true that no one other than yourself can possibly sort this out.

[KhaoYai]

On 10/15/2020 at 11:03 AM, ubonjoe said:

It depends upon the availability of flights now. The delays before were for getting a repatriation flight reservation.

Now the are a few airlines that are allowed to board passengers to here with a certificate of entry and etc.

The potential delays I'm refering to are with embassies beaurocracy Joe.  Its not always straightforward - even if you're Thai.  We just had a lot of hassle getting my wife onto a repat flight - all totally unecessary, just BS from the Thai embassy in London. They are experts at making a relatively simple matter difficult.

 

Thankfully my Mrs is back in Thailand now and in quarantine but even the flight wasn't without hassle at check in. Thai airways staff were unhappy with the wording of my wife's so called fit to fly certificate - I had asked the RTE twice what they wanted the certificate to say - all I got was "fit to fly".  When I contacted my doctor in the UK he said that a normal 'Fit to Fly' certificate would involve a comprehensive health check including an ECG, Lung Function etc, etc.  I had seen examples of certificates issued by clinics on the RTE's list and they just referred to Covid 19. A full check would be very expensive so again I contacted the RTE and asked then what they want - same reply again.

 

My wife's 'certificate' was much the same as examples I'd seen yet the Thai Air staff didn't want to let her board.  It was only when I asked another passenger who had checked in, if I could see her 'certificate' and found the content was no different to my wife's that Thai Air backed down and issued a boarding pass.

 

If they'd just state what they want from a 'Fit to Fly Certificate' there would be no problem.

 

It is of course, entirely possible that they don't like people using a doctor who's not on the list of clinics they recommend - there could be some kind of 'financial arrangement'.  Most of the passengers seemed to have 'certificates' issued by a doctor who had simply interviewed the traveller by phone for 5 minutes and asked them if they had any Covid symptoms - cost, £30 for the consultation + £50 for the letter. Complete BS and a waste of time.  My wife didn't even have her temperature taken at check in.

[KhaoYai]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:28 PM, Peter Denis said:

Truly amazing, that the Thai Embassy in Portugal will provide you as UK citizen and no Portuguese passport or permanent residency there, with a Non Imm O-A Visa.

But good for you, so congrats of pulling this off.

A wild guess but it could be because technically, until 1 January 2021, a UK citizen doesn't need to apply for any kind of permanent residency in Portugal - they have that right per se - until then, previous EU rules still apply. Highly unusual though, as you say Peter.

 

I seem to remember that the Thai consulate in Hull would issue non O's to EU citizens (at the time they were able to issue visas themselves).

[Mike Teavee]

16 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

A wild guess but it could be because technically, until 1 January 2021, a UK citizen doesn't need to apply for any kind of permanent residency in Portugal - they have that right per se - until then, previous EU rules still apply. Highly unusual though, as you say Peter.

 

I seem to remember that the Thai consulate in Hull would issue non O's to EU citizens (at the time they were able to).

You still have (had) to register as a resident in the EU country to be able to do "Official" residency things so unless he has done this (& he mentioned that he wasn't a resident in Portugal) then he wouldn't be considered a Resident in Portugal EU Freedom of Movement act or not.   

 

I just hope for his sake that the Embassy has got it right & he's not going to have a problem when he gets there, he has taken great pains to double check that he's eligible for the Visa but 2 major things that they've told him (1. they will grant him a Non-OA & 2. He doesn't need to get his existing Visa/Re-entry permit cancelled) seem to be at odds with other people's experiences at other Embassies.  I just hope the statement from the Embassy that "We did a Non-OA for a British person last week" doesn't become "Ahh yes, but they were registered as a Portuguese Resident" when he gets there. 

 

 

Non-Imm O is a completely different thing, I got mine (Multi Entry) in Penang (I wish they did Non-OAs for Brits there).

[KhaoYai]

9 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

You still have (had) to register as a resident in the EU country to be able to do "Official" residency things

Not at Hull you didn't. I remember a member here saying that he'd had so much hassle getting his visa in France that he came to the UK to get one.

 

The thing is that all Thai embassies and consulates seem to make up their own rules.  You can get a Multi Non O at Savannakhet for example but try getting one at Vientiane.

 

No reason to think Portugal is any different - they are after all......Thai.

[Peter at Udon Thani]

I have been in Switzerland since the borders of Thailand closed because of the virus and can no longer return to my house in Thailand. It's such an ugly situation. I don't understand the authorities of Thailand why they are doing this. I have already been rejected twice for a CoE because I have a same-sex marriage that was concluded according to law and order in Switzerland. Unfortunately, Thailand does not accept that .... About this behavior, everyone can think what they want, I tell the dicremination ...

[Mike Teavee]

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Not at Hull you didn't. I remember a member here saying that he'd had so much hassle getting his visa in France that he came to the UK to get one.

 

The thing is that all Thai embassies and consulates seem to make up their own rules.  You can get a Multi Non O at Savannakhet for example but try getting one at Vientiane.

 

No reason to think Portugal is any different - they are after all......Thai.

Again, you're mixing up Non-Imm OA with Non-Imm O, the 2 are very different beasts to get the initial Visa...  

 

The Non-Imm O can be got from a lot of different countries (as mentioned I got mine from Penang, ironically I'm not entitled to one in the UK) but the Non-Imm OA is typically only available to people who are Residents of the country (e.g. My mate is looking to get his as a PR in Singapore)

 

 

Under the FoM act, to be a "Formal" Resident in an EU Country, you need to register at the local office (typically within 3 month of settling there). 

 

 

Edit from https://www.mfa.go.th/en/page/non-immigrant-visa-o-a?menu=5e1ff71bc4281a00c812e8e2

 

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

 

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Again, you're mixing up Non-Imm OA with Non-Imm O, the 2 are very different beasts to get the initial Visa...  

I'm not mixing them up - I'm fully aware of the difference but as I said, different embassies and consulates seem to be able to make up their own rules. You may get your Non O at Penang, just as I got mine at Ho Chi Minh but in fact, they should not be issued there.

 

This will all change in any case as embassies and consulates change over to the E Visa system - once that's in place ALL visa applications will have to come from nationals or those with legal residence there - as they do now in the UK, Bejing and France (I believe).

 

When this does kick in its going to create headaches for a lot of people - especially offshore workers etc.  I for example will only be able to get a single entry (another quirk in the E Visa system) and that will have to come from London.  My mate in Iraq will be really screwed - he simply works in Iraq, he does not hold residence.  His home is in Thailand and at the moment he gets his Multi Non O's from Savannakhet.  According to the RTE London, when all the regional offices go over to E Visa he will have to fly from Iraq to London, get a single entry Non O and then fly to Thailand. He will have to do that for every leave rotation because they will not issue multis - absolutely barmy.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm not mixing them up - I'm fully aware of the difference but as I said, different embassies and consulates seem to make up their own rules. You may get your Non O at Penang, just as I got mine at Ho Chi Minh but in fact, they should not be issued there.

I do not disagree that embassies and consulates create their own rules over many matters. However, the issuing of a Non O-A visa requires sign off from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. That means there are fewer possible deviations from the standard that an embassy can get away with.

[iian23]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:48 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

There is a virtual certainty that if you fly out you will not be retuning 3 weeks later, possibly up to 3 months. 

 

The CoE alone takes a couple of weeks, that is if the embassy will accept your application, getting on a repatriation flight is also difficult, that is all subject to your getting an ASQ booking that will probably require a non refundable payment, probably of the full cost. All of that is dependant on not getting infected on your trip.
 

So unless you are significantly wealthy, are backed by a very large multi national or have high political connections you plan is unlikely to be successful.
 

You should do everything in your power to avoid the trip.

COE can be issued in a couple of days, I got mine 2 days after application.

 

You don’t need to get on a repatriation flight, you can fly with many airlines now.

 

Lots of ASQ’s offer full refunds should your plans go wrong.

 

But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of such confident advice!

 

 

 

 

[Jen65]

well I'm back (arrived on 11th Nov) and now doing the ALQ in Pattaya .   Luckily I did get many of the documents necessary for a new O-A visa before I left ie bank letter / insurance etc and I took various documents with me including Chanote(s) and proof of importing monies into Thailand for property purchase .  Even so I did have to run around like a headless chicken to get everything in a short time so lots of stress but I did what I had to , followed the rules/regulations and now will be out of quarantine to receive my container of personal effects/furniture when it arrives end of November .  Accomplished lots in a short space of time and will save me lots of money now having completely sold out in France (house/car etc and closed French bank Account) thus disassociated myself with France and Europe apart from my yacht !!  I just escaped France and drove down to Portugal through Spain before the <deleted> hit the fan with Covid Lockdown in France /Spain and Portugal .

[Jen65]

My new O-A Visa is issued by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs - nothing to do with Immigration - and the expiry date stated as 3rd November 2021 but Immigration , on arrival have put a stamp in my passport with "admitted until 31st August 2021" .  No explanation forthcoming !!   I didn't think Immigration were allowed to mess about with Ministry of Affairs issued visas unless one was a naughty boy or did something illegal ??

As Immigration told me a load of rubbish previously , I think I will have to visit the embassy to get the right answer !! 

[Jen65]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:19 AM, iian23 said:

COE can be issued in a couple of days, I got mine 2 days after application.

 

You don’t need to get on a repatriation flight, you can fly with many airlines now.

 

Lots of ASQ’s offer full refunds should your plans go wrong.

 

But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of such confident advice!

 

 

 

 

I got my CoE same time as I got my new visa !!   I was out and back in less than 4 weeks 

 

[Jen65]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:39 PM, Peter at Udon Thani said:

I have been in Switzerland since the borders of Thailand closed because of the virus and can no longer return to my house in Thailand. It's such an ugly situation. I don't understand the authorities of Thailand why they are doing this. I have already been rejected twice for a CoE because I have a same-sex marriage that was concluded according to law and order in Switzerland. Unfortunately, Thailand does not accept that .... About this behavior, everyone can think what they want, I tell the dicremination ...

yes sad situation in Thailand and I thought they would go down the same road as Taiwan and get Civil Partnerships on the agenda and over and done with like any modern nation .  I'm worried about the way forward here and as I can never be "resident" even though having my only "residence" here and a company , I am seriously wondering if I made a mistake and whether farangs are really welcome here .  My partner is same sex and there does not seem to be any movement to give transgender any rights or protection .