'People must brace for new-normal lifestyle for at least two years before Covid-19 is contained'

[Kaopad999]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

"New normal lifestyle"?  I'm intrigued also as to what this is.  My lifestyle is absolutely unchanged.  I can only think it refers to international travel, which certainly has been affected.  Otherwise, no changes here....

Yeah, mine has not changed an awful lot either

I's just a case of washing my hands more often and wearing a mask in public places.

In fact, it would not be an issue for me to do that for another 20 years if need to be.

[Peter Denis]

41 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

...

Not to be sarcastic, but very few have stayed the course on their beliefs without flip-flopping, case in point is the WHO

Agree with most of your posts, but not on this one.

We should not call it flip-flopping when facts make you reconsider your stance. 

That's just sensible and responsible behavior (and it is the foundation on which science should be grounded). 

That being said > the facts and figures on covid have not convinced me that the (over-)reaction by governments was justified.   

Can't put it better and more to the point than MP Desmond Swayne > pic.twitter.com/hFjYcXODET

Edited October 26, 2020 by Peter Denis

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Agree with most of your posts, but not on this one.

We should not call it flip-flopping when facts make you reconsider your stance. 

That's just sensible and responsible behavior (and it is the foundation on which science should be grounded). 

That being said > the facts and figures on covid have not convinced me that the (over-)reaction by governments was justified.   

Can't put it better and more to the point than MP Desmond Swayne > pic.twitter.com/hFjYcXODET

Yes flip flopping was a sensationalized term, my mistake.  You put it in the right tone with the term Reconsider.  Thank you for calling me out.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Exactly. Listen to the scientists, not the conspiracy theory websites or politicians.  Sadly, many don't do this.

Do we have any politicians amongst the soldiers who are trying to run the country here? 

[Throatwobbler]

6 minutes ago, Bluedan said:

Not only are they being ignored but often censored for their scientific opinions. There are more including Nobel prize winner Dr Michale Levitt. None of these people are calling Covid a hoax. They are asking for a sense of proportionality. They argue for protection of the vulnerable and to allow the rest of the population to go about their lives. They may be in the minority as it seems that mainstream is driving an agenda of sticking with the catastrophe originally and falsely predicted by Ferguson in his imperial college model. That model predicted 10-12 times the current death rate. Its ok to say we got that wrong and reformulate policy.

 

There is a flip side to deaths or illness from the disease itself. There is death and misery from the measures taken but those statistics and facts are often marginalized also. The WHO estimated more than 100 million will be thrown into extreme poverty. That surely translates to many deaths and many years of lives lost. This is not just some minor collateral damage. Doctors worldwide are reporting on a mass scale failure to treat cardiac conditions failure to diagnose and treat cancer and other serious illnesses. Children are missing out on education. This will also lead to poverty and reduced life expectancy. And then there is the psychological harm, increases in suicide drug dependance alcoholism and domestic violence.  

 

The focus is on questionable statistics. First of all any death with cover present is classified as a death from Covid. This is misleading and not done with respect too other illnesses. Secondly there is a "casedemic" a focus on case numbers where as initially the talk was all about hospitalizations for serious illness and deaths. Why is now forgotten? Cases simply indicate a positive test which can mean fragments of death virus are still in ones body but not able to make the host sick or transmit. Its another misleading statistic. So the curve was flattened so now eradication? Wait for a silver bullet vaccine which will probably only give 30% effectiveness and then what?  

 

To point out the damage these policies are doing does not make one a COVID denier or conspiracy theorist. There should be a balanced debate not simply blind adherence to this new normal claim.

I think that you need to look at the excess mortality rate graphs to get a true idea of the situation. It is easy to see a massive spike in deaths when Covid first hit countries. How high this spike could have gone with out lockdown measures we can not knowThis spike slowly began to flatten and return to normal as the lockdown measures took effect. 
 

it is clear from these graphs that anyone who still wants to claim that this is just a bad flu is clearly wrong.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm... how much will this “new normal lifestyle” will cost the dreaded “alien” visitor(s) I wonder ?... TIT remember

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Government policy .........

Thailand closed to most foreign tourists for the next 2 years.

Not if you listen to Pipat and Anutin, they'd be happy to open up tomorrow, same as the service industry.

[holy cow cm]

32 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I think you’ve been listening to the great leader too much.

Sorry, the first part is my belief as I am so anti china, and the second part was a joke. The great leader needs to go as has done enough irreversible damage to date.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Grumpy John said:

Which country?  Or do you mean all of them?

The UK went bankrupt in the 1970's under Labour, the government of the "working class", and had to get bailed out by the International Monetary Fund.

I wonder if the IMF exists today.

[FarFlungFalang]

Things seem to have gone rather quiet on the vaccine front.We used to get almost daily updates on how promising it was looking but now hardly a peep since a report of a Brazilian had died during one of the trials.

[Fairynuff]

9 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Sorry, the first part is my belief as I am so anti china, and the second part was a joke. The great leader needs to go as has done enough irreversible damage to date.

Well at least we have some common ground 

[Bluedan]

16 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

I think that you need to look at the excess mortality rate graphs to get a true idea of the situation. It is easy to see a massive spike in deaths when Covid first hit countries. How high this spike could have gone with out lockdown measures we can not knowThis spike slowly began to flatten and return to normal as the lockdown measures took effect. 
 

it is clear from these graphs that anyone who still wants to claim that this is just a bad flu is clearly wrong.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

I have seen  stats which show an increase in excess deaths but not the the degree that it should cause panic. In Europe 140,000 in 2018 and around 170,000 in 2020. Its not a matter of comparing it with a flu its amateur of looking at the realities of the deaths and hospitalizations and also looking at the damage done by the containment policies. Its easy to claim if no lockdown it would be worse. Sweden has less deaths per. million than Spain UK and Italy all off whom had harsh lockdowns. In Thailand the lockdown was after the virus was here for 3 months. There is no proof that the lockdown reduced mortality.

[Strongheart]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

"New normal lifestyle"?  I'm intrigued also as to what this is.  My lifestyle is absolutely unchanged.  I can only think it refers to international travel, which certainly has been affected.  Otherwise, no changes here....

The "New Normal" is criminal psychopaths like the good "Dr" destroying the world.

[visacrack]

The 'new-normal lifestyle' for an intelligent individual - and not just for two years but permanently - results from this insight: Excess body fat reduces the function of your immune system, plus it creates lifestyle diseases. A fully functional immune system keeps microbes in check, also covid.

 

Ergo: Keep your body fat under control - through a  lowcarb diet and regulare exercise. You will never need medication nor see a doctor again. 
 
Have you seen gbdeclaration (org)? 
 

[rupert the bear]

guys a fool.economically this policy  will mean the end of the world we live in and it certainly wont be normal unless u r very rich so 2 yrs from now the majority of people still unemployed a world economy thats died.good luck with that.major civil unrest and anarchy on the streets .vaccine is coming out in the next few weeks innoculate over 65s health workers and thats about it,the rest they can jab as it comes on line but thats the bottom line,that will not stop it dead either but we have to grow up and live with it whilst it does disipate.authorities the world over have shown extraordinary incompetence and do not have the credibility to rule any longer[thats what the govts are scared of-theyve been found out] and thats across the political spectrum from right wing totalitarians here china russia etc to liberal democracies that arnt liberal any more  such as australia peru ,some have hard lock downs and hi nos see parts of latam others the opposite.same results.death rates have fallen a lot infections are going up so....they are testing more,they wont tell us that many are asymptomatic  or have minimal symptoms so they are trying to justify their own bs .as for this half wit more thai snooze where do they get em from and in such large nos?amazing ....ly stupid but we should be used to it by now,so my answer?mask up and move out .test people for free and if u r clear go to work travel fly and get things on the road we have to get over this extraordinary paranoia its not 1919 not even 1970 in uk ,its rather pathetic.people will soon say enough of this.

[skorp13]

In other words "we have no idea what we are doing so give us 2 years to try and figure it out".

[MadMac]

Main thing here is, they will extend the emergency decree without any foreseeable end with such bogus arguments like black sheeps.

Edited October 26, 2020 by MadMac

[vandeventer]

The new normal? I think it will take at least 2 years for the Chinese CCP to stop laughing at what they done to us. Lets hope the vaccines do some good! Way too many people are living underground and only come out on food shopping day. Why don't we quarantine China for 2 years and see how they like it? 

[MadMac]

1 minute ago, vandeventer said:

The new normal? I think it will take at least 2 years for the Chinese CCP to stop laughing at what they done to us. Lets hope the vaccines do some good! Way too many people are living underground and only come out on food shopping day. Why don't we quarantine China for 2 years and see how they like it? 

In 2 years a complete different virus will have evolved, just look at common flu, every year a new, different vaccination. It is simply one big lie and they know it.

[Keesters]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

"New normal lifestyle"?  I'm intrigued also as to what this is.  My lifestyle is absolutely unchanged.  I can only think it refers to international travel, which certainly has been affected.  Otherwise, no changes here....

 

My lifestyle hasn't changed much too. In fact it may be said to have improved with there no longer being the hordes of loud, unruly Chinese tourists clogging up Pattaya's traffic as they sit in coaches to take them off to some shopping center where the coach double or triple parks to let them all off. And I can actually get through the doors of 7-11 now once I've stepped over the usual dog lying there. 

[onebir]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Giving an analogy, he said: “It is like a person who has immunity is a white sheep, and a person without immunity is a black sheep. If there are mostly white sheep in the herd, germs or dangers that could befall the black sheep would be kept at bay because the white sheep surrounding it would make it difficult for the invaders,” said Dr Yong.

Take that, sheeple!

[MikeN]

@rupert the bear have you never heard of paragraphs and punctuation ? Your rant would be a lot easier to read ! But you would, IMHO, still be wrong. No vaccine in a few weeks, that’s for sure.

[Miami007]

The concept of herd immunity is being debunked in the USA. 

 

Basically,  the 2 years timeline is the same as the Spanish Flu 100 years ago.  No vaccines back then and no border closures but masks recommended. 

 

 

[Grumpy John]

Oh boy!  I should have stayed in Pattaya and not left for points North (Nowhere???).  If there are no Chinese or Indians it must be a pleasure being there....well unless you live in an area with a lot of whinging Poms!  ????

[MadMac]

3 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

The concept of herd immunity is being debunked in the USA. 

 

Basically,  the 2 years timeline is the same as the Spanish Flu 100 years ago.  No vaccines back then and no border closures but masks recommended. 

 

 

 

That would make 3 years in total, unlikely. SARS lastet roughly one year. So Wuhan outbreaks on large scale shoud be over within the next quarter. Perhaps a bit longer due people not getting exposed that much. Herd immunity was confirmed in Sweden and works just as with any other virus.

[thairookie]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Giving an analogy, he said: “It is like a person who has immunity is a white sheep, and a person without immunity is a black sheep. If there are mostly white sheep in the herd, germs or dangers that could befall the black sheep would be kept at bay because the white sheep surrounding it would make it difficult for the invaders,” said Dr Yong.

 

I think I understand the Dr's analogy in political context.

 

The white sheep are China tourists and the black sheep the Thais living in COVID-free Thailand.

 

If Thailand welcomes more China tourists, the Thais "would be kept at bay because the China tourists surrounding the Thais would make it difficult for the COVID virus to attack the Thais."

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

 

So how do we obey the 'scientists' if what they say isn't reported correctly?

And you still haven't chosen a scientist for me to follow and obey, presumably it would need to be someone local that I could meet in person so that they couldn't be misrepresented by Trump or the media. What 'research' could I do that isn't subject to the same Trump/media/alt-right manipulation/misrepresentation?

 

Stick with Fauci, or one from the NIH, etc.  Hard to go wrong with Fauci.  45 years in infectious diseases.  And not political at all.  If someone bashes Fauci, they're a covid denier.

[FarFlungFalang]

4 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

The concept of herd immunity is being debunked in the USA. 

 

Basically,  the 2 years timeline is the same as the Spanish Flu 100 years ago.  No vaccines back then and no border closures but masks recommended. 

 

 

Herd immunity is what stopped the 1918 flu.How is the concept of herd immunity being debunked in the US? 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Personally I don't see the need the masks, I wear a bandana as a face covering in shops and that's it. Western people value personal freedoms that were hard fought, that's not always the same in the east as they are generally more compliant. The virus doesn't affect the majority and never will, but lack of employment will and it's hitting the poorest people the most. I've been saying the same thing for months, lockdowns and social restrictions will cause unrest.

A bandana isn't a proper mask.  A mask is worn to protect others.  Very selfish to not care about the health and well being of others.  I have personal freedoms also.  The freedom to be able to go outside and not be infected by those who refuse to wear masks.  Sad some don't get it.  I'm sure the parents of this child would agree with this.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/well/family/coronavirus-symptoms-kids-children-long-hauler.html?surface=home-discovery-vi-prg&fellback=false&req_id=171110415&algo=identity&imp_id=251005607

 

 

At 12, She’s a Covid ‘Long Hauler’

Although most young people recover quickly, doctors are seeing some children and teens with lingering fatigue and other chronic problems.

 

 

[Throatwobbler]

39 minutes ago, Bluedan said:

I have seen  stats which show an increase in excess deaths but not the the degree that it should cause panic. In Europe 140,000 in 2018 and around 170,000 in 2020. Its not a matter of comparing it with a flu its amateur of looking at the realities of the deaths and hospitalizations and also looking at the damage done by the containment policies. Its easy to claim if no lockdown it would be worse. Sweden has less deaths per. million than Spain UK and Italy all off whom had harsh lockdowns. In Thailand the lockdown was after the virus was here for 3 months. There is no proof that the lockdown reduced mortality.

Serious question for you then. What do you think caused the reduction in the excessive death rates?