Arc welder purchase, inverter type. Small size, use with small generator if poss.

[notrub]

I want to put up a small house for the family on their naa for use when working there.  3x9 M floor area with 3x6 enclosed and a 3x3 covered open area at one end.  Simple, straight, double pitched roof about 11M long.  There is no power there although I put in some solar panels and pump down a borehole well. 

 

I see some small arc welders are 'generator friendly' .  I understand that inverter type welders have electronic circuitry that can be sensitive to voltage variations in the 'sine'.  (I just read that on the web and only sort of understand it)

 

But, if a small generator is also an inverter type then the voltage generated should be regulated too.  No?

 

By the way, I calculated the material cost of this small house at around 65,000 baht.  As follows:

 

8 - 15x15x 4M posts

all the steel for ring beams and roof structure

roof covering of metal or cement fibre panels

18- 1x2M wood panels (outside wall covering)

1 - door

6 - 1x120 windows with screens

30 - 30cmx3M precast concrete floor slabs

 

Add another 10 or 20,000 for extras and it will not be too costly.

 

Plus local labor, of course.

 

I am thinking to prefabricate the steel here at home, cutting and drilling holes to bolt it all together using connecting plates.

 

But it would be nice to be able to have a welder in site if easily done.  Also a small generator of less than 15 or 20 KG would always be handy to have around.

 

I have seen small welders for 1000 to 1500 baht, big drop saws at about the same and drill presses for between 2 and 5000.  I have all the other tools already.

 

I will probably buy a welder even if I can't use it at the farm.  Just fancy having one.

 

Any comments on: (please)

 

welding equip

drop saws

drill press

generators, small (not honda, too costly)

 

I was a building contractor for many years so I have a grasp of these sorts of things but would welcome any comments and/or guidance you might take the time to send along, thank you.

 

From your friend

notrub

 

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

19 minutes ago, notrub said:

I see some small arc welders are 'generator friendly' .  I understand that inverter type welders have electronic circuitry that can be sensitive to voltage variations in the 'sine'.  (I just read that on the web and only sort of understand it)

 

But, if a small generator is also an inverter type then the voltage generated should be regulated too.  No?

There is a difference between a pure sine wave and the choppy sine wave produced by lower quality inverters. That doesn’t have much to do with the voltage.

[FarFlungFalang]

I've got a couple of Sumo welders, a 200 amp MIG which also does TIG and Stick and a 200 amp TIG welder.The MIG and TIG comes in handy as a lot of the steel is quite thin and stick welding thin steel is very tricky in fact any welding is quite tricky but I thoroughly enjoy it The MIG Cost about 15,000 Baht and the TIG cost 13,000 Baht.I got both from Siam Global Group in Bangkok and they sent them way out here to Yasothon.They have heaps of stuff including generators.

 

https://www.sgb.co.th/index.php?route=product/category&path=206_987

 

 

https://www.sgb.co.th/งานเชื่อม-ตัดพลาสม่า-WELDING/welding-machine-tig-tig-stick/welding-machine-tig-stick

 

Here's my welding set up.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, notrub said:

I will probably buy a welder even if I can't use it at the farm.  Just fancy having one.

Any comments on: (please)

I bought this one, works fine. 1,100bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/inntech-inverter-igbt-450a-3-supreme-edition-i274609952-s436457675.html

 

and these welding rods, using on 2.0-2.5mm mild steel box.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/yawata-51-ft51-20-x-300-mm-25-i125132841-s131198053.html

 

Worth getting an auto-dim mask as well

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i274683190-s436546730.html

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[VocalNeal]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

My welding instructor would have used sentences containing the word seagull to describe the above????

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

My welding instructor would have used sentences containing the word seagull to describe the above????

I was hanging off each of the brackets to test them, 75Kg test for a 20Kg load ...... not pretty, but good enough.

Edited October 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[FarFlungFalang]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I bought this one, works fine. 1,100bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/inntech-inverter-igbt-450a-3-supreme-edition-i274609952-s436457675.html

 

and these welding rods, using on 2.0-2.5mm mild steel box.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/yawata-51-ft51-20-x-300-mm-25-i125132841-s131198053.html

 

Worth getting an auto-dim mask as well

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i274683190-s436546730.html

 

 

 

Nice job Brtiman Too, any thing less than 2.5 mm wall thickness and things start getting ugly for me.

Here's my latest project which shows some improvement in my technique.It's about 9 months with extended covid fatigue periods (procrastination is another word for it).It's rather fiddly.

 

 

[notrub]

Thanks for the replies.  Also home made projects, great.  Just what I have in mind too.  My first project will be a pair of trestles, 'sawhorses' we call them in Canada.  Good tip about self darkening mask.  How to know if the generator is producing a pure, not choppy, sine wave?  Also, for the smaller welders, can a small generator power one?  Will the 'generator friendly' welding units have a protection built in to deal with choppy sine waves?  These are questions that I would normally put to a reputable supplier but I don't really trust the sales people here.  Very nice people but I just don't have confidence in their knowledge.  Thanks again

[FarFlungFalang]

8 minutes ago, notrub said:

Thanks for the replies.  Also home made projects, great.  Just what I have in mind too.  My first project will be a pair of trestles, 'sawhorses' we call them in Canada.  Good tip about self darkening mask.  How to know if the generator is producing a pure, not choppy, sine wave?  Also, for the smaller welders, can a small generator power one?  Will the 'generator friendly' welding units have a protection built in to deal with choppy sine waves?  These are questions that I would normally put to a reputable supplier but I don't really trust the sales people here.  Very nice people but I just don't have confidence in their knowledge.  Thanks again

I haven't actually used a generator to power a welder but I've seen it done nearby at a bush temple but I couldn't tell you what size the generator was apart from being an average portable one.You could possibly get a hardware shop to do a demo if you were going to buy from them that way you can see for yourself.

If you look closely in my pics you can see a couple of sawhorses I clamped the bed I'm making to support it while getting ready to drill the holes for the wooden sides of the bed.I made adjustable feet for levelling them for my chainsaw mill.

 

[notrub]

Wow!  Back on the farm!  Feet look very good, better than a couple of cement blocks etc..  How does your lumber come out with your mill?  Around here they cut posts freehand  or there is a huge circular saw tool on a bed for cutting planks.  Down to about 1cm thick and pretty consistent along the length considering the tools.  Two guys set up the saw on a squared up trunk and just drag it along to cut the dimensioned lumber.  First time I have ever seen that.  I'll try to find the pics and post them If I do.  Thanks for your comments and encouragements.

 

I have looked a bit on the net about generators and arc welders and think that may not work out too well.  Time for a bit more armchair research I think.  Thanks for the ideas.

[FarFlungFalang]

Only done a few test cuts on the mill and they went really well,I'm still try to work out some sort of base for holding the logs in place for cutting.I've seen the circular saw method you describe next door when they cut up a Teak log and found it fascinating and some of the freehand chainsaw suff is pretty amazing as well.I've tried the freehand method that's why I made the mill I totally suck at freehand and since I'm hand planning the lumber it really sucks even more.

Sounds like you might have to go the Meccano set approach for your  farm donga.

[Pogust]

One thing to remember using welders with protecting gas. It doesn't work if there is any wind. It must be dead calm or you work indoor.

 

I built 3 houses with steel roof trusses and used almost always the stick welder. 1,5 mm material works OK with stick, 1,2 doesn't... Then only MIG works. But it takes some time to learn.

 

When welding thin material you only use the lowest setting on the welder, it would probably work with a small generator. The new inverters don't use much amps on low setting. Worth a try if you need the genny there anyway in future.

 

I never managed to get a good weld with rutile electrodes, can's see the puddle through the slag. Found Kobe LB-52 works good for me.

[notrub]

Thanks Pogust.  Is it that 1.2mm steel just melts?  Is it that 'protecting gas' is stick welding?  I will do welding in my parking area so that should be OK.  I am a bit of a tool nut so a small generator will probably find its way to my collection of stuff.

 

So Far flung, Excuse me if you already know this but...   Chain sharpening correctly is essential and something that I have yet to master to my satisfaction.  When the teeth on one side become dull for any reason the cut will curve.  Also if one side is cutting less well it will put more pressure on that side of the blade causing it to wear out of true with the other.  If you see what I mean.  When that occurs no amount of good sharpening will succeed until the blade is trued up again.   For planing - have you looked at the small thickness planers available these days?  I had a Dewalt and maybe a Makita too, I forget.  They are all pretty much the same.  If you are happy with taking off a mm at a time (sometimes) they really do the job.  Not so good with wet wood, however.  The big hand planers work much better if you are not after furniture wood.  

 

Just googled 'log dogs' and there are lots of examples for 'holding logs in place' ideas.

 

I am getting very excited about another little building project to occupy myself with.

 

Thanks again for all the ideas and information everybody. 

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

I'm no expert at chain sharpening but have done quite a bit of it and lots of youtube research which is where I learned about sharpening the teeth at 10 degrees for rip sawing and makes a huge difference.I have a Makita thickness planer which is great but one side of the timber needs to be planed flat first so I end up using a combination of hand planing and the thickness planer I built my woodwork bench that way.I used a 24" handsaw to cut 6"-7" square posts salvaged from the farm which took a few days and got lots of saw sharpening practice.The wood was Mai Gik which gave off sparks when I cut it on the table saw when I had planed one side so I could make a parallel cut.You can see my 2 No. 7 jointer planes in the photo below.Also my thickness planer, bandsaw and table saw which is  Bosch portable.As you can see I'm a bit of a tool nut as well.

Edited October 27, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[Pogust]

6 hours ago, notrub said:

Is it that 1.2mm steel just melts?  Is it that 'protecting gas' is stick welding?

It's too difficult to have a puddle of melted steel in the arc without it just falling away with thin steel and stick. Might work if you have a way to adjust the setting with a pedal during welding like on a TIG. But this is obviously above what you are looking for. You need too much amps to start the stick welder on 1,2 mm, and then it's too much after a few seconds so it burns through... Stay away from thin material, use 1,5 or 1,8.

 

Stick use no gas. That is TIG and MIG welder that use shielding gas. Argon and a mix of CO2 and argon. Plain CO2 works OK too  on MIG. I done stainless with MIG and CO2 when I can't get a small gas bottle with the mix.

[Pogust]

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Pogust
wrong URL

[impulse]

Not meaning to be "that guy", but if I were storing and working exotic wood in my home/farm workshop, I wouldn't be posting photos on social media unless I had all the correct permits.  There have been several posts over the 8 years I've watched TVF and other Thai news sources where people have had uncomfortable visits from the authorities for possessing wood without a permit.  There have also been people arrested just for hauling it around in their pickup trucks without the correct permits, even though it came from their own land.  The exotic wood trade is a seriously protected business in Thailand.

 

It's not my intention to call anyone out.  Personally, I think the laws on the subject are ridiculous.  But my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to Thai laws...

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by impulse

[FarFlungFalang]

14 hours ago, impulse said:

Not meaning to be "that guy", but if I were storing and working exotic wood in my home/farm workshop, I wouldn't be posting photos on social media unless I had all the correct permits.  There have been several posts over the 8 years I've watched TVF and other Thai news sources where people have had uncomfortable visits from the authorities for possessing wood without a permit.  There have also been people arrested just for hauling it around in their pickup trucks without the correct permits, even though it came from their own land.  The exotic wood trade is a seriously protected business in Thailand.

 

It's not my intention to call anyone out.  Personally, I think the laws on the subject are ridiculous.  But my opinion doesn't matter when it comes to Thai laws...

 

Quite right to raise such concerns and they are appreciated.Personally we work closely with the Forestry Department and have the correct permits and stamps and we attend their courses and grow 2,000 of their trees.I might point out that "exotic woods" is a term for woods not native to the local area.I actually agree with the protection the laws provide for trees.We recently attended a woodworking course hosted by the Khon Kaen Forestry Dept and had them come to our place to look at and give advice on our Teak plantation which was very informative.

Edited October 28, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[sometimewoodworker]

17 hours ago, impulse said:

Personally, I think the laws on the subject are ridiculous. 

I think that the relatives of the people killed in landslides caused by greedy people cutting down everything they can will disagree, clear felling hillsides, causing contamination of water supplies, destroying people’s homes and livelihoods are good reasons for the laws.

[notrub]

Well Far Flung,  That is quite a collection you have.  Great stuff.  I too once had such a collection but no more....  Is that a rosewood handle on the number 7 sitting on the bench?   Pretty rare these days.  The big Makita electric hand planer looks pretty good to me but so far have resisted. 

 

Interesting stuff that you are up to.  Thanks for contacting me

 

Take care, Burton

[mogandave]

On 10/27/2020 at 4:31 PM, FarFlungFalang said:

I'm no expert at chain sharpening but have done quite a bit of it and lots of youtube research which is where I learned about sharpening the teeth at 10 degrees for rip sawing and makes a huge difference.I have a Makita thickness planer which is great but one side of the timber needs to be planed flat first so I end up using a combination of hand planing and the thickness planer I built my woodwork bench that way.I used a 24" handsaw to cut 6"-7" square posts salvaged from the farm which took a few days and got lots of saw sharpening practice.The wood was Mai Gik which gave off sparks when I cut it on the table saw when I had planed one side so I could make a parallel cut.You can see my 2 No. 7 jointer planes in the photo below.Also my thickness planer, bandsaw and table saw which is  Bosch portable.As you can see I'm a bit of a tool nut as well.

That bench is nice work...

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

[notrub]

Thanks for sending the info on generator/welders.  The ones shown are really too big for my needs.  Where this little house will be built is at the far end of a rice paddy so weight is a big consideration.  Future use of a generator will be at locations accessible only on foot.  When it dries up we will have a relatively short window of access by truck or tractor and when it rains again that will close.  Thanks for commenting.