Spain, Britain agree to keep Gibraltar land border open

[webfact]

Spain, Britain agree to keep Gibraltar land border open

By Clara-Laeila Laudette

 

FILE PHOTO: The Rock of Gibraltar is pictured from La Linea de la Concepcion, southern Spain, December 21, 2020. REUTERS/Jon Nazca/File Photo

 

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain and Britain reached a preliminary agreement on Thursday to keep the Gibraltar land border open, just hours before Britain's full exit from the European Union.

 

As part of the agreement, Gibraltar, a British Overseas Territory located on Spain's southern tip, will remain part of European Union agreements such as the Schengen Area, Spanish Foreign Minister Gonzalez Laya said.

 

All the details of the agreement will be settled between Spain and Britain during a six-month transition regarding the territory, she told reporters.

 

"Spain, as member state representing the Union, will be responsible for enforcing Schengen and will be assisted by (EU border agency) Frontex for around four years, conducting controls both in Gibraltar's port and airport," Laya said.

 

Gibraltar was not part of a last-minute deal for Britain's post-Brexit relationship that was reached between Britain and the European Union last week.

 

Without Thursday's agreement, tens of thousands of Spaniards and Gibraltarians who cross everyday would have been forced to go through checks and passport stamping, the Spanish foreign minister said.

 

Spain still claims sovereignty over the port at the mouth of the Mediterranean which it ceded to Britain in 1713 after a war.

 

Laya said Thursday's initial agreement safeguarded both countries "renounceable aspirations of sovereignty."

 

Some 99% of Gibraltarians rejected any idea of Britain sharing sovereignty with Spain in a referendum in 2002. However they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU in Britain's 2016 referendum on Brexit.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson hailed the agreement in a a tweet.

 

"I wholeheartedly welcome today’s political agreement between the UK and Spain on Gibraltar’s future relationship with the EU. The UK ... will remain totally committed to the protection of the interests of Gibraltar and its British sovereignty," he said.

 

The Schengen Area is a 26-country zone covering most of the European Union, and a handful of non-EU members, where internal borders have been abolished and people move freely between countries.

 

(Reporting by Clara-Laeila Laudette; Editing by Inti Landauro and Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-01

 

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[nausea]

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

Virtually the entire population want to remain British. That must count for something?

[mrfill]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

Its very handy if you want to blockade the Med for whatever reason.

 

And a lot of rich people definitely need places like Gibraltar (and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, British Virgin Is, Cayman Is and Bermuda) as lovely tax havens.

[ChakaKhan]

Last minute save from being called "A Rock in a Hard Place"..   ????

[Disparate Dan]

how Johnson can hail this as a victory is beyond imagining. UK citizens flying into La Linea will be subject to Schengen-area controls just as if they were entering at Madrid, operated by Spanish. Gib remains part of the EU despite its British "sovereignty".

[teacherclaire]

4 hours ago, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

Yep, they need the monkeys there to replace the cabinet members from time to time. 

[mrfill]

41 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

how Johnson can hail this as a victory is beyond imagining. UK citizens flying into La Linea will be subject to Schengen-area controls just as if they were entering at Madrid, operated by Spanish. Gib remains part of the EU despite its British "sovereignty".

Gibraltar is not, and never has been, part of the EU. It is a British Overseas Territory.

[Disparate Dan]

59 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Gibraltar is not, and never has been, part of the EU. It is a British Overseas Territory.

But physically part of Europe and now its borders are to be controlled by Spain (on behalf of Schengen) "with the sponsorship of Spain, the country’s Foreign Minister Arancha González Laya announced Thursday".

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, Disparate Dan said:

how Johnson can hail this as a victory is beyond imagining. UK citizens flying into La Linea will be subject to Schengen-area controls just as if they were entering at Madrid, operated by Spanish. Gib remains part of the EU despite its British "sovereignty".

 

  Johnson didnt hail this was a victory , 

Thats isnt beyond imagining, that's just you imaging he claimed it was a victory 

[Disparate Dan]

1 hour ago, mrfill said:

Gibraltar is not, and never has been, part of the EU. It is a British Overseas Territory.

wikipedia:

"Gibraltar is not part of the UK, but contrary to all other British Overseas Territories was a part of the European Union like the UK. It participated in the Brexit referendum and it ceased, by default, to be a part of the EU upon the UK's withdrawal."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Brexit_on_Gibraltar

 

17 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Johnson didnt hail this was a victory

he hailed it, according to the piece. Did he hail it as a defeat? (A bit like Brexit and all the other tosh from him).

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

 

 

he hailed it, according to the piece. Did he hail it as a defeat? (A bit like Brexit and all the other tosh from him).

 

  No, he didnt claim it was either a victory or a defeat .

"All the tosh from him" , whilst making false claims about him "hailing a victory" ????

[John Drake]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

 

Give it back to Spain, and watch the Spaniards sell it to the Chinese.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Disparate Dan said:

But physically part of Europe and now its borders are to be controlled by Spain (on behalf of Schengen) "with the sponsorship of Spain, the country’s Foreign Minister Arancha González Laya announced Thursday".

FYI the border has always been controlled by Spain  on their side and by Gibraltar and the UK on the Gibraltar side. That is the way it was back in 1968 when I was there for 3 months, the same going back to before WW2.

[billd766]

59 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Give it back to Spain, and watch the Spaniards sell it to the Chinese.

Never mind what the population of Gibraltar (33,718 (2018) World Bank), (just give it back to whom)?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Middle_Ages

 

After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, Gibraltar came briefly under the control of the Vandals, who crossed into Africa at the invitation of Boniface, the Count (or commander) of the territory.

The area later formed part of the Visigothic Kingdom of Hispania for almost 300 years, from 414 until 711 AD.

Following a raid in 710, a predominantly Berber army under the command of Tariq ibn Ziyad crossed from North Africa in April 711 and landed somewhere in the vicinity of Gibraltar (though most likely not in the bay or at the Rock itself).[27][28] Tariq's expedition led to the Islamic conquest of most of the Iberian peninsula. Mons Calpe was renamed Jabal Ṭāriq (جبل طارق), "the Mount of Tariq", subsequently corrupted into Gibraltar.[23]

In 1160 the Almohad Sultan Abd al-Mu'min ordered that a permanent settlement, including a castle, be built. It received the name of Medinat al-Fath (City of the Victory).[29] The Tower of Homage of the Moorish Castle remains standing today.

From 1274 onwards, the town was fought over and captured by the Nasrids of Granada (in 1237 and 1374), the Marinids of Morocco (in 1274 and 1333) and the kings of Castile (in 1309).

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, Disparate Dan said:

how Johnson can hail this as a victory is beyond imagining. UK citizens flying into La Linea will be subject to Schengen-area controls just as if they were entering at Madrid, operated by Spanish. Gib remains part of the EU despite its British "sovereignty".

So not all bad news then. 

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

Strategically, 'The Rock' is very important, especially giving Russia's increasing belligerence. Russia's only warm water naval port is in Sevastopol on the Crimea, thus their only access to the Atlantic is via the Straits of Gibraltar.

 

Yes, Britain will always want to keep Gibraltar.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Never mind what the population of Gibraltar (33,718 (2018) World Bank), (just give it back to whom)?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Middle_Ages

 

After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, Gibraltar came briefly under the control of the Vandals, who crossed into Africa at the invitation of Boniface, the Count (or commander) of the territory.

The area later formed part of the Visigothic Kingdom of Hispania for almost 300 years, from 414 until 711 AD.

Following a raid in 710, a predominantly Berber army under the command of Tariq ibn Ziyad crossed from North Africa in April 711 and landed somewhere in the vicinity of Gibraltar (though most likely not in the bay or at the Rock itself).[27][28] Tariq's expedition led to the Islamic conquest of most of the Iberian peninsula. Mons Calpe was renamed Jabal Ṭāriq (جبل طارق), "the Mount of Tariq", subsequently corrupted into Gibraltar.[23]

In 1160 the Almohad Sultan Abd al-Mu'min ordered that a permanent settlement, including a castle, be built. It received the name of Medinat al-Fath (City of the Victory).[29] The Tower of Homage of the Moorish Castle remains standing today.

From 1274 onwards, the town was fought over and captured by the Nasrids of Granada (in 1237 and 1374), the Marinids of Morocco (in 1274 and 1333) and the kings of Castile (in 1309).

Careful "Bild", I read somewhere that once territory has been ruled by Islam it forever belongs to Islam.

You will have that solicitor chap of Bangladeshi origin called "Chowdray" from East London claiming that it belongs to Tower Hamlets soon...

[teacherclaire]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Give it back to Spain, and watch the Spaniards sell it to the Chinese.

I don't think that the Spaniards would like to give them anything else than bombs to repay for the virus. 

[John Drake]

21 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

I don't think that the Spaniards would like to give them anything else than bombs to repay for the virus. 

 

You do recognize sarcasm, don't you? Probably not. 

[shy coconut]

8 hours ago, mrfill said:

Gibraltar is not, and never has been, part of the EU. It is a British Overseas Territory.

Quite right old boy, just like Hong Kong.......

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

Quite right old boy, just like Hong Kong.......

Actually Gibraltar was nothing like Hong Kong.

 

Hong Kong was on a 150 year lease and Gibraltar was won in a battle with Spain. Spain won Gibraltar in a war with the Moors.

 

So if Gibraltar is given to anybody it should be given to the Moors who, at that time, had conquered most of Spain.

 

Perhaps Spain should be ceded to the Moors as well.

Edited January 1, 2021 by billd766
Added extra text

[Tarteso]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

So if Gibraltar is given to anybody it should be given to the Moors who, at that time, had conquered most of Spain.

Requested & Demanded a very long time ago by Muslims and recently by Osama Bin Laden...in theirs Dreams; Reconquer “Al-Andalus”.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Tarteso

[nausea]

On 1/1/2021 at 8:24 AM, herfiehandbag said:

Virtually the entire population want to remain British. That must count for something?

Then I guess it's mostly posturing on Spain's part, why would they want to import another separatist problem. With such widespread public support for maintaing the British relationship, I guess it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But my question is what do we gain by this? N.Ireland, Scotland, Wales, I can understand; like you want to maintain influence on your immediate borders (cf. Russia and the Crimea, the US and Cuba, or China and Tibet, just to give a few examples that spring to mind), but some island in the mediterranean that lost it's strategic importance to the, now, non-existent British Empire some time ago?

[robblok]

23 hours ago, billd766 said:

Actually Gibraltar was nothing like Hong Kong.

 

Hong Kong was on a 150 year lease and Gibraltar was won in a battle with Spain. Spain won Gibraltar in a war with the Moors.

 

So if Gibraltar is given to anybody it should be given to the Moors who, at that time, had conquered most of Spain.

 

Perhaps Spain should be ceded to the Moors as well.

And England given back to the Vikings (their descendants) who conquered large parts of it.  Also to the French (normans). 

 

If we go back in time almost every country has been conquered at one time or an other. 

[herfiehandbag]

Just now, nausea said:

Then I guess it's mostly posturing on Spain's part, why would they want to import another separatist problem. With such widespread public support for maintaing the British relationship, I guess it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But my question is what do we gain by this? N.Ireland, Scotland, Wales, I can understand; like you want to maintain influence on your immediate borders (cf. Russia and the Crimea, the US and Cuba, or China and Tibet, just to give a few examples that spring to mind), but some island in the mediterranean that lost it's strategic importance to the, now, non-existent British Empire some time ago?

The Gibraltarians (some 32000 of them) obviously think that they gain from this. As they have the right to self determination, and overwhelmingly seem to prefer Britain to Spain, that, as with the Falkland Islands, is why.

 

As for it's strategic importance, as a Naval facility which effectively controls the entry to the Mediterranean, and therefore to the Black Sea and Suez Canal, it retains a strategic value, within the NATO alliance.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

And England given back to the Vikings (their descendants) who conquered large parts of it.  Also to the French (normans). 

 

If we go back in time almost every country has been conquered at one time or an other. 

We were also conquered at various times by the Romans, Angles, Saxons and Jutes but the last successful one were the Normans (not the French).= about 1,056 years ago.

[bkkcanuck8]

50 minutes ago, billd766 said:

We were also conquered at various times by the Romans, Angles, Saxons and Jutes but the last successful one were the Normans (not the French).= about 1,056 years ago.

So England was conquered often in the past... up until the point where they had enough new immigrant blood to make a difference ????

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, nausea said:

Then I guess it's mostly posturing on Spain's part, why would they want to import another separatist problem. With such widespread public support for maintaing the British relationship, I guess it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But my question is what do we gain by this? N.Ireland, Scotland, Wales, I can understand; like you want to maintain influence on your immediate borders (cf. Russia and the Crimea, the US and Cuba, or China and Tibet, just to give a few examples that spring to mind), but some island in the mediterranean that lost it's strategic importance to the, now, non-existent British Empire some time ago?

For what it's worth, Gibraltar is not an island. It's a peninsula.

[Patong2021]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:37 PM, nausea said:

Do we need Gibraltar? I can understand the Falklands, like natural resources and all that, but Gibraltar; Napoleon died a long time ago, is the mediterranean really of any significance? 

 

Critical  permanent joint operating base for UK military and  intelligence operations in the region. This is a monitoring station for the migrant traffic in Mediterranean from North Africa. They go to France and then to UK.  Also it is a major fueling depot for shipping. Spain has been trying to get the profitable  business for decades. Gibraltar has no tax on its fueling business and if Spain could take control it would impose tax and gain from that.

 

On 12/31/2020 at 8:49 PM, mrfill said:

Its very handy if you want to blockade the Med for whatever reason.

And a lot of rich people definitely need places like Gibraltar (and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, British Virgin Is, Cayman Is and Bermuda) as lovely tax havens.

 

The tax haven is not "full". The tax benefits only apply to  income made in Gibraltar. A UK company can not hide its wealth in Gibraltar because of the tie in to  UK revenue. 

 

 

5 hours ago, robblok said:

And England given back to the Vikings (their descendants) who conquered large parts of it.  Also to the French (normans). 

If we go back in time almost every country has been conquered at one time or an other. 

 

The Vikings were then defeated by Saxons in 878 laying the foundation  for England. In 900 the king of the Picts further  destroyed the Vikings.  Then Frenchmen arrived in the Norman conquest and more war, but also the start of the end of slavery. Eventually Normans were sent away and  English went about killing and absorbing everyone into the nation we see today. I think different from Gibraltar because Spanish never really had it. Remember that Spain was a military dictatorship without democracy until only recent times.  If UK was not there, I think Spain would have delayed  becoming free. Only UK has history of stable democracy. Spain does not.

 

 

Also Spain  complaints are funny. It has the occupying colonies in North Africa , Melilia and Ceuta.