Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

That was a particularly cruel and nasty lie perpetrated by Better Together, trying to fool pensioners into thinking that their pensions were vulnerable, which was utter tosh. 

Exactly, from the white paper

• There will be continuity of payments for pension and benefit recipients
• This Government proposes a series of improvements to the State Pension and to the benefits system that will:
  • extend the triple-lock on state pensions so they increase by either inflation, earnings or 2.5 per cent, whichever is higher
  • introduce the new single-tier pension and set it at £160 in 2016
  • abolish the "bedroom tax", assisting 82,500 households in Scotland - including 63,500 households with a disabled adult and 15,500 households with children - to save an average of £50 per month
  • halt the further rollout of Universal Credit (UC) and Personal Independence Payment (PIP) in Scotland
  • change elements of UK pension and welfare rules to better protect the position of women in work and on retirement
  • https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-future/pages/8/

 

It  should also be borne in mind that Ian Blackford is one of the loudest voices in the campaign to abolish the frozen pension. Full text of his EDM in 2016 can be seen here.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/debates/GetDebateAsText/16051148000001

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Sorry RR but one of my pet hates is posters discussing other posters on an open forum, it is not a nice thing to do, (he says trying to be tactfull).

 

 

Someone suggested that I was hateful and spiteful without offering any explanation and you endorsed their sentiments, yet you hate discussing other posters on an open forum? Hmmm. OK. 

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

know you have said "British Nationalists RR, but lets be honest with one another, the only nationalism in Scotland is the SNP so it goes without saying that you dont mean them. I know your support for the Welsh Nationalists so it would be fair to say that you don't mean them also. Well who does that leave RR, correct answer, the English Nationalists

 

Is that the only conclusion you can come up with? Really? You don't think that the people in Scotland, Wales or NI who support the union might qualify as British nationalists? 

Edited January 19, 2021 by RuamRudy

[RobFord]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:02 PM, Nout said:

The Scotch can get in line behind Serbia and over a dozen other countries to join the EU..They are not wanted. And what currency are the going to use? The poond? 555. The corrupt scotch goverment are in dissaray so use swivel eyed nationlism as a distraction

They'd use the Euro, duh. And you’re right, there’s well over a dozen other countries who would love to join the EU. The EU can pick and choose while the UK falls apart. 

[sharksy]

Personally, I would love to see a united Ireland.  But I imagine working out the break from the UK would be a nightmare.

Scotland going independent would be even harder.  Pity there's not a sea to separate us.

[youreavinalaff]

On 1/18/2021 at 11:54 AM, RuamRudy said:

Can you point to where I denied that?

Yes.

 

You said that the "majority" of Scots don't want the Union. In fact, the "majority" voted the complete opposite of what you claim they think. You also claim that it is the English that are stopping Scottish independence. In fact, the referendum result was a NO. Voted for by Scots.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Yes.

 

You said that the "majority" of Scots don't want the Union. In fact, the "majority" voted the complete opposite of what you claim they think. You also claim that it is the English that are stopping Scottish independence. In fact, the referendum result was a NO. Voted for by Scots.

 

I am not sure if I have supplied you with the academic research which showed that in 2014 the majority of Scottish born voters cast their vote for independence, but it exists - look back through this topic if you like. 

 

But nonetheless, this isn't 2014. The world has moved on and so has Scottish opinion. 

 

That said, I have never denied that No won the day in 2014, sad as it is. 

[youreavinalaff]

23 hours ago, stevenl said:

Again, really not up to you or other English

Exactly right. That is why the British Government, not English Government, gave the opportunity for Scotland to vote on independence. The result of which escapes me right now. Could you please confirm if the result was YES or NO? One word answer will suffice.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

That said, I have never denied that No won the day in 2014, sad as it is. 

Not is so many word, no. However, you have continuously suggested that it is the English that are blocking Scottish independence. Those are the words of someone in denial as it simply is not true.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not is so many word, no. However, you have continuously suggested that it is the English that are blocking Scottish independence. Those are the words of someone in denial as it simply is not true.

 

I am not sure if English is your first language, but I suggest that you look up the dictionary definition of denial. 

 

The majority of MPs in Westminster are SNP. The majority of MSPs in Holyrood back independence. If the power to authorise a referendum was in their hands, we would have one. However that referendum is being denied by MPs from your country. Its not difficult to understand. 

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am not sure if English is your first language, but I suggest that you look up the dictionary definition of denial. 

 

The majority of MPs in Westminster are SNP. The majority of MSPs in Holyrood back independence. If the power to authorise a referendum was in their hands, we would have one. However that referendum is being denied by MPs from your country. Its not difficult to understand. 

Oh dear. Short memories again. Scotland had their referendum. The voters in Scotland voted NO.

I would say that the majority of MPs in Westminster are Conservative, not SNP.

[youreavinalaff]

24 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If the power to authorise a referendum was in their hands, we would have one.

You mean "another one" and when that result is NO you want another one and another one and another one........That is not how referendums work.

[transam]

34 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am not sure if English is your first language, but I suggest that you look up the dictionary definition of denial. 

 

The majority of MPs in Westminster are SNP. The majority of MSPs in Holyrood back independence. If the power to authorise a referendum was in their hands, we would have one. However that referendum is being denied by MPs from your country. Its not difficult to understand. 

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Exactly right. That is why the British Government, not English Government, gave the opportunity for Scotland to vote on independence. The result of which escapes me right now. Could you please confirm if the result was YES or NO? One word answer will suffice.

 

So? Now they may want something different. And judging by polls they do, especially since the economic landscape changed drastically.

Self determination, not just for the British when it concerns the EU, but also for the Scots when it concerns the UK.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not is so many word, no. However, you have continuously suggested that it is the English that are blocking Scottish independence. Those are the words of someone in denial as it simply is not true.

It is true. Let the Scots decide themselves, again.

[vogie]

Just now, stevenl said:

It is true. Let the Scots decide themselves, again.

I am afraid that democracy does not work like that, you have to go with the majority, and the majority said no. Mickey mouse polls do not even come into the equation.

You cannot go through life continuously saying "let the Scots decide" trust me, they decided. HTH

 

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I am afraid that democracy does not work like that, you have to go with the majority, and the majority said no. Mickey mouse polls do not even come into the equation.

You cannot go through life continuously saying "let the Scots decide" trust me, they decided. HTH

 

The situation has changed significantly. But I'm talking to a brick wall.

[vogie]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

The situation has changed significantly. But I'm talking to a brick wall.

No, you are being insultive!

[RuamRudy]

An important day for all those who believe in democracy and the right of a people to choose their future without being bound by restrictions imposed by others. 

 

The crowdfunded People's AS30 action commences today. The objective is to ask the court to declare "that the Scottish Parliament has the power under the provisions of the Scotland Act 1998 to legislate for the holding of a referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country, without requiring the consent of the UK Government." (link)

 

I am not wholly confident in its chances, but even a defeat will be useful in some respects. 

[transam]

20 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

So? Now they may want something different. And judging by polls they do, especially since the economic landscape changed drastically.

Self determination, not just for the British when it concerns the EU, but also for the Scots when it concerns the UK.

Polls, bit like the Beano, a good laugh......Wait for the real deal......????

[youreavinalaff]

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

So? Now they may want something different. And judging by polls they do, especially since the economic landscape changed drastically.

Self determination, not just for the British when it concerns the EU, but also for the Scots when it concerns the UK.

Correct. Hence the referendum in 2014. That is my argument. The Scots keep banging on about how they want the choice. They had the choice and said NO.

 

As a matter of fact, I would be happy to see Scotland gain independence. In fact I think England should beat everyone to it and have a referendum themselves. A referendum for England to be an independent nation. Leave the rest of the union to Scotland, Wales and NI. England takes everything they want and closes the borders. Then let's see the complaints from across the borders about how nationalistic we are.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

Polls, bit like the Beano, a good laugh......Wait for the real deal......????

"Wait for the real deal."

Exactly, the sooner the better. Glad we agree again.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Correct. Hence the referendum in 2014. That is my argument. The Scots keep banging on about how they want the choice. They had the choice and said NO.

 

As a matter of fact, I would be happy to see Scotland gain independence. In fact I think England should beat everyone to it and have a referendum themselves. A referendum for England to be an independent nation. Leave the rest of the union to Scotland, Wales and NI. England takes everything they want and closes the borders. Then let's see the complaints from across the borders about how nationalistic we are.

 

Why do you and others keep ignoring the completely different economic situation after brexit. No need to answer.

[youreavinalaff]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why do you and others keep ignoring the completely different economic situation after brexit. No need to answer.

Selective reading? Read all of my post. 

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Correct. Hence the referendum in 2014. That is my argument. The Scots keep banging on about how they want the choice. They had the choice and said NO.

 

As a matter of fact, I would be happy to see Scotland gain independence. In fact I think England should beat everyone to it and have a referendum themselves. A referendum for England to be an independent nation. Leave the rest of the union to Scotland, Wales and NI. England takes everything they want and closes the borders. Then let's see the complaints from across the borders about how nationalistic we are.

 

Scotland would be happy. I dont know why england insists scotland has no say in whether they want in or out.

 

Yet say they can decide if in or out of the eu.

 

Using that analogy, if the eu says uk must remain then they should remain. Uk should be given the choice.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sujo

[puchooay]

24 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Scotland would be happy. I dont know why england insists scotland has no say in whether they want in or out.

 

Yet say they can decide if in or out of the eu.

 

Using that analogy, if the eu says uk must remain then they should remain. Uk should be given the choice.

Oh dear. Go back to my post, and many others for that matter, to try and get a fist of things before you embarrass yourself again.

[RuamRudy]

Big moves today for indyref2. It appears that the May Holyrood election will be run by the SNP on a referendum ticket. If they win, they have a mandate to hold one. 

 

As the Court of Session heard last week, in Scotland the people are sovereign so the parliament they elect represents them and can therefore enact its manifesto pledges accordingly. 

 

If the SNP get a majority, no need to ask any other country for permission to hold a referendum. Intrinsically, they will have the right to do so already. 

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Big moves today for indyref2. It appears that the May Holyrood election will be run by the SNP on a referendum ticket. If they win, they have a mandate to hold one. 

 

As the Court of Session heard last week, in Scotland the people are sovereign so the parliament they elect represents them and can therefore enact its manifesto pledges accordingly. 

 

If the SNP get a majority, no need to ask any other country for permission to hold a referendum. Intrinsically, they will have the right to do so already. 

Excellent. So does that mean SNP ministers will now stop attending sessions at Westminster?

[2530Ubon]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:46 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Selective reading? Read all of my post. 

I read your post and the other chap was correct - you didn't answer the change in economics (leaving the EU).

 

The UK voted to leave the EU 2 years AFTER the scottish referendum in 2016. (Scots voted in 2014 for indyref) Therefore, a massive change in circumstances deserves another vote.

Edited January 23, 2021 by 2530Ubon

[Mavideol]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:24 PM, vogie said:

I am afraid that democracy does not work like that, you have to go with the majority, and the majority said no. Mickey mouse polls do not even come into the equation.

You cannot go through life continuously saying "let the Scots decide" trust me, they decided. HTH

 

Scotland independence vote 2014, they said NO, better stay in the UK

UK vote to leave the EU 2016 (2 years after Scots vote) they said YES, thus Brexit

The original vote in 2014 by Scotland assumed the UK would remain in the EU which was contradicted by the 2016 Brexit referendum , thus many things changed for Scotland, they expected something, to remain in the EU market, but the UK decided otherwise, based on the drastic changes the UK imposed on Scotland, it's more than fair to let Scotland have another go at independence because now they know what the UK is about

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Scotland independence vote 2014, they said NO, better stay in the UK

UK vote to leave the EU 2016 (2 years after Scots vote) they said YES, thus Brexit

The original vote in 2014 by Scotland assumed the UK would remain in the EU which was contradicted by the 2016 Brexit referendum , thus many things changed for Scotland, they expected something, to remain in the EU market, but the UK decided otherwise, based on the drastic changes the UK imposed on Scotland, it's more than fair to let Scotland have another go at independence because now they know what the UK is about

I doubt if any remainer or Euro were even interested in Scotland before we successfully voted to leave the EU, it has suddenly become the Jewel in the Crown of many on here who wish to see the UK implode on itself because it had the audacity to democratically vote to leave the EU. 

Which brings me to my rather important salient point, when in 2014 the Scots voted to leave the UK they were also voting to leave the EU, they were non so bothered about the rest of the UK and remaining in the EU then were they? 

Things change every day, we cannot go on forever blaming everything on Brexit, if not Brexit it would have been covid, if not covid it might even been Rangers beating Celtic, there will always be an excuse. 

The SNP are just turning into a giant parody of the Scottish Play with Mr & Mrs Sturgeon being the McBeths and Alec Salmond being the King. Tick tock, tick tock.