Second Trump impeachment trial takes U.S. into uncharted waters

By Richard Cowan and David Morgan

 

National Guard members walk in front of the U.S. Capitol after the House voted to impeach U.S. President Donald Trump in Washington, U.S., January 14, 2021. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America will be in uncharted territory when the U.S. Senate meets as soon as next week for the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump, a case against the outgoing president that one Democrat preparing for arguments called "shockingly evident."

 

The House of Representatives on Wednesday voted to impeach Trump on charges of incitement after his supporters rampaged in the Capitol following a speech in which the Republican urged them to fight President-elect Joe Biden's election victory. Trump falsely claims he lost due to widespread voting fraud.

 

Representative Diana DeGette, one of nine Democratic impeachment managers who will argue the House's case against Trump, said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was working out with Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell when to transmit the article of impeachment to the Senate, triggering the trial process.

 

"This is a situation where you have the crime pretty much being committed on national television," DeGette, a former trial lawyer said, adding, "It's a shockingly evident case."

 

In a 232-197 vote on Wednesday, Trump became the first president to be impeached twice and will likely be the first to face an impeachment trial after leaving office.

 

Ten Republicans joined the majority Democrats in supporting impeachment, while others argued Trump's remarks were protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which defends free speech.

 

The action, one week after last week's riot, is highly unlikely to lead to Trump's ouster before Biden takes office on Jan. 20. McConnell has said no trial could begin until the Senate was scheduled to be back in regular session on Tuesday.

 

Impeachment managers will be working through the weekend to compile a list of witnesses they want to call to testify and honing their arguments for conviction, DeGette said.

 

If Trump has left the White House, the Senate could convict him and then vote to ban him from running for office again.

 

Biden, a Democrat, has urged Senate leaders not to allow the impeachment trial to get in the way of other priorities in his first days in office such as an economic stimulus bill, coronavirus vaccine distribution improvements and confirming crucial Cabinet nominees.

 

"I hope that the Senate leadership will find a way to deal with their Constitutional responsibilities on impeachment while also working on the other urgent business of this nation," Biden said in a statement on Wednesday.

 

Biden's inauguration has been scaled back due to security concerns and the COVID-19 pandemic. The West Front of the Capitol building, where the swearing-in occurs, is now fortified by fencing, barriers and thousands of National Guard troops.

 

FIRST AMENDMENT DEFENSE

The article of impeachment - equivalent to an indictment in a criminal trial - charged Trump with "incitement of insurrection" in his incendiary speech to thousands of supporters on Jan. 6. The mob disrupted Congress's certification of Biden's victory, sent lawmakers into hiding and left five people dead, including a police officer.

 

A two-thirds majority in the Senate would be needed to convict and remove Trump, meaning at least 17 Republicans in the 100-member chamber would have to join the Democrats.

 

If Trump is no longer president, historical precedent suggests the Senate could disqualify him from holding office in the future with only a simple majority vote.

 

In the trial, Trump's legal team may argue that his comments were not a call to violence and were protected under the First Amendment, some legal experts said.

 

They said all sorts of lawful rhetoric can be proper grounds for impeachment, however, and that Congress has wide latitude to define "incitement" as it sees fit in the impeachment process.

 

"Even if his speech was protected by the First Amendment, he can still be impeached for it," said Ilya Somin, a law professor at George Mason University. "High-ranking officials get fired for their speech all the time."

 

Trump's team could also argue that holding an impeachment trial after he has left office would violate the Constitution.

 

But there is precedent for Congress impeaching former federal officials and the Constitution explicitly says that impeachment is not just for removing officials but also for disqualifying them from future office, the experts said.

 

Trump also may face state legal actions on leaving office, including a criminal probe in New York into whether he inflated asset values to obtain loans and tax benefits in his business dealings.

 

The House impeached Trump in 2019 on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress stemming from his request that Ukraine investigate Biden and his son Hunter. The Senate in February 2020 voted to keep Trump in office.

 

No U.S. president has ever been removed from office via impeachment. Bill Clinton was impeached in 1998 and Andrew Johnson in 1868 but they also were acquitted by the Senate. Richard Nixon resigned in 1974 rather than face impeachment.

 

(Reporting by Richard Cowan and David Morgan; Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell, Jan Wolfe, Doina Chiacu and Lisa Lambert; Writing by John Whitesides and Sonya Hepinstall; Editing by Scott Malone and Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-15

 

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Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

1 minute ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

And as usual, Trump shot himself in the foot! ????

11 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

Naaa that started when he got caught canoodling with his best bud Putin you rember the russans in the Oval on the first day and insulting our hero’s at Langley all on the first day no this ones because he instigated a coup on the lie that the election was rigged but I think you know that lol and my advice to the impeachment team just make sure that big fat orange bumper is between you and the rocks if the water gets shallow lol

How are you progressing with MAGA, Donald? America does'nt appear so great to the outside eye! Nevermind, the Chinese and the Russians just love what you've done!

 

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

 

GOP is alreaydy working on Making Trump Great Again - for America, maybe not.

2 hours ago, candide said:

And as usual, Trump shot himself in the foot! ????

 

Trying to kill those pesky bonespurs?

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

Yes your right, the moment Trump took office he was on a crime spree. 

 

The Constitution separates powers and hands Congress the duty to hold the President in check.

 

Now it’s time for the Senate to play their part.

 

The DoJ and State prosecutors can do their bit when Trump leaves office.

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

Even if true , hard in retrospect to disagree with an effort to reign in a traitorous wanabe dictator.

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

You obviously don't follow the news very well.  This is NOTHING like 2016.  You really need a better source for your news.

2 hours ago, candide said:

And as usual, Trump shot himself in the foot! ????

Trump would still be president if it wasn't for....Trump....LOL

3 hours ago, candide said:

And as usual, Trump shot himself in the foot! ????

He was actually aiming for his head, shows just how incompetent he is!

Monkey trial 2!

What a pathetic bunch. It would appear that America has now established itself as the world's least democratic country, but the one consoling factor is that it now has the government it deserves ????

14 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

What a pathetic bunch. It would appear that America has now established itself as the world's least democratic country, but the one consoling factor is that it now has the government it deserves ????

Pathetic to impeach a sitting president  who incited a crowd to invade the capitol?  Ya gotta be kidding me.  Come on....

 

Plus, there's news coming out that some who were there had inside knowledge of the building and were directing the attackers where to go.  More heads need to roll.

 

Watch this:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/14/capitol-riot-video-planning-nr-vpx.cnn

 

It will be interesting to see what the Senate Republicans decide to do.  This may seem like a short term decision, but it has long term ramifications.  Many are saying that getting a 2/3 majority to convict is unlikely.  But if Trump is allowed to run in 2024...

 

[For Republicans, allowing Trump to continue to be eligible to run for president is a recipe for disaster. Trump simply cannot win in a general election. The combination of events at the Capitol and his ejection from the major social media platforms is fatal.  But that doesn't mean he can't get the GOP nomination in 2024.]

[Surprisingly getting the votes (to convict) might not be that difficult. Because Trump simply rages uncontrollably - without thought or foresight - at the slightest criticism or disagreement, he has managed to alienate plenty of Republican senators, most of whom have been winning elections in their home states long before Trump barged onto the scene - and often with much greater margins.]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcconnell-about-to-school-trump-on-political-power-for-the-last-time/ar-BB1cLf3h

1 hour ago, PatOngo said:

He was actually aiming for his head, shows just how incompetent he is!

With a head as big as his how did he miss it?

55 minutes ago, rgraham said:

Monkey trial 2!

That's no way to refer to the defendant.

5 hours ago, rgraham said:

Monkey trial 2!

Or to elaborate ; Orange baboon back in the dock.

5 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

What a pathetic bunch. It would appear that America has now established itself as the world's least democratic country, but the one consoling factor is that it now has the government it deserves ????

We get it , you are happy to support a dictator , majority said no , suck it up !

if anyone think this will stop Trump from running again in 2024 or be a political figure head for the next 4 years, then they are going to be very very disappointed when that impeachment fails again ????

 

Nancy is out of control and making all this very very personal and orchestrating all this sad charade of parliamentary democracy

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

if anyone think this will stop Trump from running again in 2024 or be a political figure head for the next 4 years, then they are going to be very very disappointed when that impeachment fails again ????

 

Nancy is out of control and making all this very very personal and orchestrating all this sad charade of parliamentary democracy

I know. She's spreading crazy lies about election fraud and she's infuriated with Mike Pence for not violating the Constitution. Just plain nuts is what she is.

didn't she think that "The Russians" got Trump elected in 2016? ????

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

didn't she think that "The Russians" got Trump elected in 2016? ????

The Senate Committee headed by a Republican thinks that might be the case too. And contrary to what Barr and his believers say, the Mueller Report didn't rule that out by any means.

But what Pelosi, the Senate Committe, and Mueller don't believe is that there was massive election fraud.

15 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

if anyone think this will stop Trump from running again in 2024 or be a political figure head for the next 4 years, then they are going to be very very disappointed when that impeachment fails again ????

 

Nancy is out of control and making all this very very personal and orchestrating all this sad charade of parliamentary democracy

When it comes to Trump running again in 2024, you might want to talk to Mitch.  I think Nancy would prefer that Trump be the GOP nominee...as often as he likes. 

9 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Just a continuation of the effort started in 2016, five minutes after he was elected.

And that was 5 minutes too late!!

5 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

What a pathetic bunch. It would appear that America has now established itself as the world's least democratic country, but the one consoling factor is that it now has the government it deserves ????

Unfortunately it is still the Republican rubes for a few more days, but after that no more right wing/alt right/proud boys/Qanon influencing the show. 

 

And a serious question for you.....do the Dems prefer male or female blood to drink? LOL.

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

if anyone think this will stop Trump from running again in 2024 or be a political figure head for the next 4 years, then they are going to be very very disappointed when that impeachment fails again ????

 

Nancy is out of control and making all this very very personal and orchestrating all this sad charade of parliamentary democracy

Not sure which planet you are beaming from but would you not take it personally if a sociopath like Trump sent his mob against you, to pick you out and hang you?

 

What I find really strange are the House Republicans who think it is fine to vote, after the Capital invasion, insurrection and riot, to repeat the lie that the election was really a landslide for Trump. It reminded me of those very sad cases of victims of spousal abuse who, despite abuse and complete lack of respect, continue to defend their abuser or say that "he has learned his lesson and will change." Well, we know that is just not true. And in the case of such abused spouses, you hope they get to see the light before their abuser actually kills them.

Indeed, what a pathetic bunch the Dems have become . The USA is about to get the government it deserves. Anyone who thinks that Biden, Pelosi etc. are going to do anything remotely helpful to America is kidding themselves. It's back to the swamp guys, snouts in the trough time. Just too sad to contemplate.

8 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Indeed, what a pathetic bunch the Dems have become . The USA is about to get the government it deserves. Anyone who thinks that Biden, Pelosi etc. are going to do anything remotely helpful to America is kidding themselves. It's back to the swamp guys, snouts in the trough time. Just too sad to contemplate.

I won't even bother to suggest that you give them a chance. Unlike Mr. trump who never tried to even act like he was the president for all Americans including his opponents, at least President Joe Biden has made it very clear that he intends to be the president for ALL Americans. In any case you are free to snipe at him and begin to plan a way to defeat him and his party during the next election. That's the way we do it. We don't invade the capitol if we're angry about the results.