I think there is a general consensus (at least among Westerners and I suspect many non-westerners as well) that vaccines developed in the west are better and/or safer than vaccines developed by China, Russia, etc.

 

Well it turns out that in the earlier phases anyway Thailand will be offering a Chinese vaccine, Sinovac.

 

So I started this poll and topic to gauge the feelings among expats about that offering. 

 

The poll is ONLY for people that DO want to be vaccinated. So don't want any vaccine is not a poll option. 

this "as soon as possible" might be sometimes in the autumn and privately, because medical personel, as well as burmese workers from samut sakhon are priority. 

probably the government will allow sinovac privately within the next few months, but it would be in small quantities, for staff and patients already served by those private hospitals.

I think those questions would be valid, when there would be the smallest chance for expats to get the jab.

At the moment nobody knows when.

By then it will be much more clear how effective each vax is.

"the western one" is probably only  astrazeneca - made in thailand by a medical company which never made any vax in it's history.

Pfizer and moderna more likely the next year. The last time they were mentioned only 50-60k were  planned to import. Looks, like the government will try to resist their import

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by internationalism

4 minutes ago, internationalism said:

this "as soon as possible" might be sometimes in the autumn and privately, because medical personel, as well as burmese workers from samut sakhon are priority. Sinovac, and later astrazeneca, need 2 jabs.

probably the government will allow sinovac privately within the next few month, but it would be in small quantities, for staff and patients already served by those private hospitals.

I think those questions would be valid, when there would be the smallest chance for expats to get the jab.

At the moment nobody knows when.

By then it will be much more clear how effective each vax is.

"the western one" is probably only  astrazeneca - made in thailand by a medical company which never made any vax in it's history.

Pfizer and moderna more likely the next year. The last time they were mentioned only 50-60k were  planned to import

Well thanks but really the intention of this poll was not so much to get into that kind of detail especially as much of it is speculation at this point.

That said, it's an interesting point about the Astrazeneca vaccine to be produced in Thailand. Personally I would still classify that as a western vaccine but I reckon many people wouldn't. 

Anyway, the main point of this poll is about reticence specifically about Chinese Sinovac. I would have added the Putin-Sputnik Russian one but I'm not aware that it's coming here. It might be interesting to know how many people reticent about the Chinese one would be similarly reticent about the Russian one, or not.

Personally I would prefer to avoid either of those fairly equally.  

If it is a choice between taking any vaccine and being able to travel freely or, choice 2, not being able to travel without expensive tests and quarantine, most people will bite the bullet and take whatever is available.

 

The actual risks to most of us on this forum are negligible (obviously, I don’t mean the obese or very old guys). 
 

 

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by donnacha

Not even considering the "risks". Simply will not give my money to a company in the country that is responsible for not attempting contain this virus properly. A country that continues to obfuscate and lie.

Foreigners in Thailand need not to worry about the vaccine brand, since they might be eligible for one in maybe 6-12 months (most likely Chinese anyway).

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by lkv

Maybe it will protect you against the next virus

I think its better to wait for a western one than risk  turning into Jar Jar Binks

Major problem is getting reliable data (or even any data) on effectiveness/safety of some of the vaccines. The Chinese vaccines as well as the Sputnik V are used to a large extent in (let's keep it polite) 'authoritarian' countries where asking questions or criticising anything can land you in hot water. Apart from that, it is not so easy to distinguish between effect of vaccination and lockdown measures. In many countries, there is now a sharp drop in cases/deaths irrespective whether they have an advanced vaccination program or not.

The UAE is currently in 2nd place when it comes to vaccination coverage. Here they use the Sinopharm vaccine, free for citizens and residents  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/18/uae-on-track-to-vaccinate-half-its-population-by-end-of-march-.html. The efficacy claimed by the UAE in a phase 3 trial  is 86% but apparently that is as far as the info. goes.  Does the vaccine work in real life? It maybe too early to see an effect (and especially inactive virus vaccines need two jabs to be effective, Sinopharm uses a 28 day interval between jabs) but so far deaths/million in the UAE keep rising (source: ourworldindata) whereas new cases are on a plateau. It will be interesting to look at the data in a few months. 

To go from this to the poll: if I really had to travel at this moment and there was a mandatory vaccination requirement I would take any vaccination. However, I prefer to wait for more data; also current vaccines may be

be of little use against new variants. When the time comes to get a shot (or two), if I had to go to a private health organization and shell out a lot of money, I should at least have a choice of vaccines comprising one each from mRNA, cDNA and inactive virus vaccines as well as recombinant protein (not yet available).

I opted for several months but would wait longer if needed.  Data (or lack of it) on the Chinese one is sketchy,

 

I predict that once a sizeable number of Sinovac or the 'in house' one has been dispensed, the private hospitals will be allowed to order them and offer a menu of options. After all, the shareholders of the big private hospitals have more than a little government influence. I can't see them missing out on this opportunity.

 

Incidentally my twin brother just got the first Pfizer one a week ago in the UK, no side effects. I'd opt for that one based on current info.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by Saltire

as to the only one available to thai, astrazeneca, it turns up, that is less effective than sputnik, by some 10%. For that "AstraZeneca and Oxford are continuing to run new trials on their vaccine. In an unprecedented move in the coronavirus vaccine field, they announced on Dec. 11 that they would collaborate with the Russian creators of the Sputnik V vaccine, which is also made from adenoviruses, to see if a combination with Sputnik V might increase the efficacy of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. The trial started in February 2021."

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/11/world/covid-19-coronavirus#british-and-russian-vaccine-makers-are-set-to-begin-clinical-trials-combining-two-vaccines

 

so there well might be astrazeneca-"putin-sputnik-russia" vax and it might well be produced and offered in thailand.

 

at this same time there is also controversy with astrazeneca for over 65, germany, Switzerland have objection.

So there might be very limited/no choice for some.

 

As to international travel with vax, it's still a long prospect for most countries and for thailand. The most important for them is avoiding lock downs with the next coming waves and mutations. Tourism is the least important to think about, at this stage. The governments are urging citizens not to buy any foreign holidays. The UK is forbidding international travel, unless essential. They would punish those returning if they bend the law.

There will be vax book or "vax passport". So far quarantine 10-14 days, tests, are common practice. The UK and the USA just very recently introduced it, even  they have advanced vax programs

 

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by internationalism

2 hours ago, cormanr7 said:

cDNA

I wouldn't call the  vector- based DNA- vaccines (like AZ, Johnson&Johnson, Sputnik) cDNA vaccines.  The DNA transported into the human cell's nucleus is a single-strand DNA. If it were a cyclical plasmid theoretically it might be safer. 

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think there is a general consensus (at least among Westerners and I suspect many non-westerners as well) that vaccines developed in the west are better and/or safer than vaccines developed by China, Russia, etc.

 

I am one of those who said he will wait several months for a western vaccine over a Chinese vaccine.

 

The above said, there maybe another vaccine option, like the Pneumonia vaccine for those over 65 or those younger with pre-existing conditions. That said I received my 1st Pneumonia an influenza vaccine jabs last May and am up for the influenza and Pneumonia booster this May, e.g. the Pneumonia jab is a 5 year jab plus booster the following as opposed to a once a year influenza jab.

 

The article in this link suggests that the Pneumonia vaccine could in fact be supportive while one waits for the Covid vaccine, for anyone interested or stressing out, have a read, it is interesting to say the least, noting that there are no vaccine that are "100%" effective that I know of, however the Pneumonia vaccine has 60% to 80% efficacy from what I have read.

 

https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/can-the-pneumonia-vaccine-protect-against-covid-19/

the chinese vaccine has 50% efficiancy, according to chinese sources as well...so i guess it

will confuse the virus so much, that it will get desperate and will leave thailand, just like it left china so quick.

I would take the Chinese Vaccine in a New York second if it meant that I didn't have to quarantine after traveling internationally, no longer have to wear a mask and live a normal life. I don't care if it had an efficacy of 1%.

I think I would take the Chinese -sourced vaccine as I have seen no scientific evidence that it is no good!

 

As far as ANY vaccine is concerned, there is no certainty of adverse long term side effects being ruled out.

 

I would take whatever approved vaccine is available out of obligation for my fellow man.

4 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

I think I would take the Chinese -sourced vaccine as I have seen no scientific evidence that it is no good!

 

As far as ANY vaccine is concerned, there is no certainty of adverse long term side effects being ruled out.

 

I would take whatever approved vaccine is available out of obligation for my fellow man.

I appreciate this thoughtful post. I'm gonna wait it out as I am concerned about it being put out on the market too quickly.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by Solinvictus

I will go home and get the Pfizer when they eventually drop the quarantine here down to a week or hopefully less for returnees.

Felt 

Hello,

I don t want to take the chinese vaccine for 3 reasons

. Don t agree to give any profits to China

. Don t trust them and have no confidence

. Vaccine is only 50% effective (according to studies).. so, might be less also

Have a good afternoon

I would take the sinovac vaccine if it was the only option.  But if another one became available later I would take it too.  

I'm not willing to take ANY one.

Never ever.  if its the same quality as all the rest of the crappy stuff that comes out of China, its more dangerous than any virus. 

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

Never ever.  if its the same quality as all the rest of the crappy stuff that comes out of China, its more dangerous than any virus. 

And nobody knows the long term effect of any of the vaccines and I agree with you even the Chinese don't want their own vaccine.

If the Chinese are capable of developing possible viruses why wouldn't they be able to develop a decent vaccine? 

You'd think only the Western civilization is capable in doing this?

Supposed the whole covid thing is not a joke, then yes I would take the Chinese one. I'd rather not take any of them.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by hugocnx

Would prefer Sputnik or the Cuban vaccine but I'd like to know what adjuvants are in them for preservatives.

For me personally, the poll lacks the following option that I would choose:

 

I am NOT willing to ever take the Chinese vaccine and would visit my home country to get vaccinated with a quality vaccine, if I can't get one in Thailand within an acceptable time or if Thailand otherwise forces me to take a Chinese vaccine.

 

Nooo!

Yep.  Because it's based on established technology that has decades of testing.  If I could obtain the vaccine I'd take it tomorrow.  No problem.
But!  Say the word "Chinese" on this forum and a large percentage of members simply melt. Most Western expats just parrot their own country's Geo-political stance.  If that stance is "Hate everything Chinese" then they hate everything Chinese.  Just reaction.  Pavlovian at its finest.
So, "Chinese vaccine bad!!!"  Ok.  More opportunity for me to obtain it.
Thanks! 

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by connda

1 minute ago, connda said:

Yep.  Because it's based on established technology that has decades of testing.  If I could obtain the vaccine I'd take it tomorrow.  No problem.
But!  Say the word "Chinese" on this forum and a large percentage of members simply melt. Most Western expats just parrot their own country's Geo-political stance.  If that stance is "Hate everything Chinese" then they hate everything Chinese.  Just reaction.  Pavlovian at its finest.
So, "Chinese vaccine bad!!!"  Ok.  More opportunity for me to obtain it.
Thanks! 

Anyway.  Nobody should fret.  AstraZeneca's vaccine produced locally will probably be the vaccine that virtually everyone will get through the government health system.  That initial 3 million doses of Sinovac aren't going very far and will be used up well before vaccines for the general population are available supposedly in June? Private hospitals may be able to obtain their own supplies of the newer, more novel vaccines (with no long term testing) and if the Thai FDA Ok's those imports then I imagine a lot of expats will obtain their vaccines from a private hospital at a two to three times mark-up on the "at cost" price of the manufacturer or for what they could purchase if for in the West.

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think there is a general consensus (at least among Westerners and I suspect many non-westerners as well) that vaccines developed in the west are better and/or safer than vaccines developed by China, Russia, etc.

 

Well it turns out that in the earlier phases anyway Thailand will be offering a Chinese vaccine, Sinovac.

 

So I started this poll and topic to gauge the feelings among expats about that offering. 

 

The poll is ONLY for people that DO want to be vaccinated. So don't want any vaccine is not a poll option. 

The advice in the EU by doctirs is to take the vaccine you can get asap. Once there are options to choose from, top up with whatever you want. Middle Eastern countries use Sinovac, some EU countries buy SputnikV and Sinovac, in Serbia (non EU you have a choice between Pfizer, Sinovac, SputnikV. Most popular is Sputnik.