Camera violation ticket for running a red light

[stargazer9999]

I've recently received two 500 baht tickets with photographic evidence claiming I went through a red light.  This has never happened before in my twenty years of driving in CM.  Because the tickets were issued at least three week earlier it's impossible to remember the exact circumstances at that intersection at the time.   Both were at large intersections (Robinson airport plaza Hang Dong road/Superhighway and Mae Rim road/Superhighway).  It's not my nature to hit the gas if a light is turning red...in fact I'll stop if I see a yellow light and a it's safe to do so without blocking traffic.   If a light turns yellow while I'm entering the intersection I will continue because it's unsafe to stop at that point.  I'm generally never in a rush and prefer to drive defensively.

 

It seems the ticketing is a bit aggressive without any wiggle room for how normal traffic flows in this city.  When a light turns yellow the car in front of you may drive slowly so you may get 'caught' going through a red light.   I'm curious what other people's experiences have been with these tickets.  

 

One picture looks like I might have stopped safely before the red light but ended up parked on the pedestrian walkway.   Is that a red light violation?

 

[petermik]

Pay up nowt you can do about it otherwise....

[Surelynot]

You went through on red.....you could see the lights were changing....there is no "wiggle room".

[ThailandRyan]

Do they supply you with a photo as proof?  Could there have been gridlocked traffic and everyone in the intersection when the light turned red was pinched and sent a ticket?  Sounds a little suspicious to me if there is no proof or a photo sent with the ticket.

[mr mr]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

....did you mean to say...someone who knows right from wrong?

 

spare  me ye perfect driving record in LOS. please. 

 

 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Surelynot said:

....did you mean to say...someone who knows right from wrong?

surelynot no.....

[Oldie]

27 minutes ago, stargazer9999 said:

 

One picture looks like I might have stopped safely before the red light but ended up parked on the pedestrian walkway.   Is that a red light violation?

 

Sure. You stopped after the line and so you are inside the crossing. Poor pedestrians. 

[steve187]

35 minutes ago, stargazer9999 said:

two 500 baht tickets with photographic evidence

 

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No... I mean exactly what I wrote... Some sanctimonious tool !!!.... 

 

Crawling through a junction on Amber on traffic lights which change on an extremely slow cycle IMO is not dangerous or wrong IMO (some sanctimonious tool will debate that & before you ask again, I meant exactly what I wrote !)

 

Crossing an unbroken white line and a poorly marked junction to avoid having to do 2 additional U-Turns is not dangerous or wrong IMO (some sanctimonious tool will debate that & before you ask again, I meant exactly what I wrote !)

 

Some sanctimonious tool will also claim the law is the law... for my response to that you can refer to Dickens’ Mr Brumble quote... 

amber means stop in the UK, not wiggle through, maybe different in other countries, but normally expats follow the rules they have ben acustomed to in their home countries

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

 

amber means stop in the UK, not wiggle through, maybe different in other countries, but normally expats follow the rules they have ben acustomed to in their home countries

 

Everyone knows amber means ‘stop before the line when / if safe to do so’... 

 

When following slow moving traffic and the light turns amber, its safe for me to stop. I’ll still follow the car in front through the junction. I know I shouldn’t, I know its against the law. I’ll do so because I don’t want to have to wait for another chunk of time in traffic. Anyone can criticise that all they want, but I bet they have done the same at some point in the past !!!... 

 

In the Ops case - he stopped on Amber and still got a ticket because in Thailand they road markings ‘create' a space for motorcyclists to filter through into. 

 

Op really didn’t do anything wrong other than stop 2m too late. In comparison with other issues, such as myself who would have chosen to go through on Amber the Op is a saint !!!

[ezzra]

I once got a fine and photo of my car doing a red light so i sent them back a photo of 500  baht note...

[metisdead]

A post with inflammatory baiting comments has been removed as well as the inflammatory replies.

[holy cow cm]

Actually that particular intersection now has the live feed gotcha cameras looking for no helmets as well. Look at how many cameras are there now. Pretty hard to say, but if they gotcha in the crosswalk then it is a fine. If they gotcha it is probably because those amber colors flick over to red so fast like a blink of an eye and so you would never make it all the way to the other side. I would even gather that if you were moving slow and it was green then turned amber, you would still be in the red before you got to t he other side. Best would be pay up and forget about it. There are money generating cameras popping up everywhere in CM now. They don't have to do road side pull you over checks now. Easier money.

[Thomas J]

I received a ticket for crossing a white line upon entering the expressway and there was a camera set up to catch that.  However they deliberately set up that camera knowing that people such as myself who were going to take the first exit on the left would have cross the white line to merge left in time to make the exit.  I just paid the 500 thb and avoid using that route to get to the drivers license bureau any longer. 

[spidermike007]

Don't know about the red light tickets, but I have received over 30 speeding tickets in the mail. Paid the first one. All the subsequent tickets have gone onto the bin. A couple of years now. Been to the DMV for renewal of car registration, purchase of a new motorbike, and drivers license renewal. No ramifications. Nothing. Pay at your own pleasure, but I do not and I will not. Not when the posted speed is 90kph. That is far too slow for a highway. They say that has all changed, but the old signs are still in place. 

[holy cow cm]

5 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I received a ticket for crossing a white line upon entering the expressway and there was a camera set up to catch that.  However they deliberately set up that camera knowing that people such as myself who were going to take the first exit on the left would have cross the white line to merge left in time to make the exit.  I just paid the 500 thb and avoid using that route to get to the drivers license bureau any longer. 

Sounds like BKK to me and not CM

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I received a ticket for crossing a white line upon entering the expressway and there was a camera set up to catch that.  However they deliberately set up that camera knowing that people such as myself who were going to take the first exit on the left would have cross the white line to merge left in time to make the exit.  I just paid the 500 thb and avoid using that route to get to the drivers license bureau any longer. 

 

Very similar issues with the route my Wife and I take after dropping our Son off at school. 

 

We need to turn left after exciting the tollway then get over to the right hand side to take a fly over.

There is a about 5m of dashed white line where we are ‘supposed’ to cross into the right handside but its actually more dangerous to do so due other traffic. Its much safer to join the traffic flow then move across into the right lane further along...  Traffic Camera says no and has caught us a few times. 

 

To avoid getting ’snapped’ we either have to come to a halt at the bottom of the expressway exit ramp, wait for a gap then cross two lanes rather than simply turning left, filtering / merging with the flow of traffic then merging into the right hand lane. 

OR, we turn left, stay in the left and are then forced to take a U-Turn under the fly over, travel 4km in the wrong directly, take another U-Turn then travel 4km again to take the same fly over.

 

In short - the road markings in this example and many others I see are not intelligently placed, do not make a junction any safer and if people adhere to the markings they actually create additional danger and traffic.

 

But...  they are the rules !!!... so we just get tickets from time to time and don’t pay them !

 

This of course opens the door for people to pass blind judgement without common sense on threads such as these. 

 

 

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, holy cow cm said:

Sounds like BKK to me and not CM

No Pattaya the ramp leading up to the expressway is on the far right side and almost immediately the exit to the street is 3 lanes over on the left side and the white lines extend on the expressway entrance for some distance. 

 

[elektrified]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Do they supply you with a photo as proof?  Could there have been gridlocked traffic and everyone in the intersection when the light turned red was pinched and sent a ticket?  Sounds a little suspicious to me if there is no proof or a photo sent with the ticket.

Yes they do. My wife got two at the same intersection a couple of weeks apart (Super Highway and the San Khampaeng Road). The ticket clearly shows the car in the intersection as well as a close up of the license plate.

[Salerno]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Do they supply you with a photo as proof?

 

2 hours ago, stargazer9999 said:

I've recently received two 500 baht tickets with photographic evidence claiming I went through a red light. 

 

[Yorkshire Tea]

Red light camera at intersection 1317 (San Kamphaeng) & middle ring road near Promenada.  Heaps go thru on red every light change!  Nice money earner.

[holy cow cm]

33 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

No Pattaya the ramp leading up to the expressway is on the far right side and almost immediately the exit to the street is 3 lanes over on the left side and the white lines extend on the expressway entrance for some distance. 

 

Yes I understand and have seen the exact things you are referring to as have driven in Thailand for a long long time. Pattaya, BKK etc. Many places it is difficult to do so. It sort of reminds me of American football and catching or being able to catch the ball with both feet in the in-zone. 

[holy cow cm]

2 minutes ago, Yorkshire Tea said:

Red light camera at intersection 1317 (San Kamphaeng) & middle ring road near Promenada.  Heaps go thru on red every light change!  Nice money earner.

That intersection is a nightmare. The traffic there is a nightmare for how many people live out that way and clog up the road..

[ThailandRyan]

I saw what he wrote, but it was more of a question as to what does the photo show, and does it show the entire intersection with the light at the time he supposedly entered the intersection.  Sorry I was not clear.  At one time I was in charge of a unit that reviewed red light violations in the US before they were mailed out to the violator.  The photo needed to be clear, it needed to show the drivers face, the front plate, the rear plate, the position of the vehicle and the light phase.  If it met all of the criteria it would be mailed out.  Many times we were contacted that the ticket was wrong, because the plate number was unclear so how could they know it was really them, or better yet the plates had been stolen and the car in the photo was not theirs as it was the wrong color.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I saw what he wrote, but it was more of a question as to what does the photo show, and does it show the entire intersection with the light at the time he supposedly entered the intersection.  Sorry I was not clear.  At one time I was in charge of a unit that reviewed red light violations in the US before they were mailed out to the violator.  The photo needed to be clear, it needed to show the drivers face, the front plate, the rear plate, the position of the vehicle and the light phase.  If it met all of the criteria it would be mailed out.  Many times we were contacted that the ticket was wrong, because the plate number was unclear so how could they know it was really them, or better yet the plates had been stolen and the car in the photo was not theirs as it was the wrong color.

 

I could be wrong, but would suspect that the RTP have a different outlook and once a photo is taken the ‘computer’ has decided guilt !!!

 

To be honest, in pretty much ALL cases the the photo catches the offending party ‘red-handed' *(myself included).\

 

But, the issue is not the ‘getting caught part’ but getting caught because of idiotic road markings. 

 

You questioned earlier if the photo showed gridlock, its a good point.

It would be harsh to get a ticket for being caught in the middle of a junction due to stopped traffic as the lights turn red. BUT, as I’m sure some of our more ‘sanctimonious tools’ (yes, that phrase again) will point out... ‘You should not enter a junction until the exit is clear’ and are thus still in the wrong. But that would show a total lack of understanding of the practicalities of driving in Thailand where if you were to stop at the entrance to a junction until the exit was clear all hell would break loose from the vehicles behind !!!!!  The police even wave you onto a junction to keep traffic ‘creeping’ when the exit is not clear !!! 

 

In these situations and those where the ‘white’ line is ineffectively placed, too long, or just positioned in a bad place  it seems wrong to receive a ticket for any violation - it also seems there is no recourse to question a ticket. 

 

The only recourse to question a ticket is not to pay it. So far, not paying hasn’t caught up with my Wife or I. 

 

A final point: it seems that genie is out of the bottle and that Thailand has started to realise that ’traffic cameras’ can be a massive money earner...   With a  lack of oversight they will be everywhere !... 

Additionally, the next thing we will see is the price of parking ramping up as the war against the motorists takes hold !!!

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Don't know about the red light tickets, but I have received over 30 speeding tickets in the mail. Paid the first one. All the subsequent tickets have gone onto the bin. A couple of years now. Been to the DMV for renewal of car registration, purchase of a new motorbike, and drivers license renewal. No ramifications. Nothing. Pay at your own pleasure, but I do not and I will not. Not when the posted speed is 90kph. That is far too slow for a highway. They say that has all changed, but the old signs are still in place. 

I respect your public  honesty but not the way you drive. Ever thought of slowing down?

 

I've only had about 5-10 tickets in 29 years.

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Don't know about the red light tickets, but I have received over 30 speeding tickets in the mail. Paid the first one. All the subsequent tickets have gone onto the bin. A couple of years now. Been to the DMV for renewal of car registration, purchase of a new motorbike, and drivers license renewal. No ramifications. Nothing. Pay at your own pleasure, but I do not and I will not. Not when the posted speed is 90kph. That is far too slow for a highway. They say that has all changed, but the old signs are still in place. 

I respect your public  honesty but not the way you drive. Ever thought of slowing down?

 

I've only had about 5-10 tickets in 29 years.

 

But he’s quite right... 90kmh is way too slow on a highway.

 

I was in a Taxi on the tollway and the driver was going 80kmh in the middle lane... it frightened the life out of me as cars passed either side at 120kmh +

 

Thailand has itself seen fit to increase the speed-limits on these highways to 120kmh. 

 

If the speed limit on the highway was set to 50kmh I’m sure you too would think it is ridiculous and wouldn’t want to pay a ticket if you got caught at 55kmh.

 

Exceeding a 120kmh speed limit by doing 200kmh is completely different.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

But he’s quite right... 90kmh is way too slow on a highway.

 

I was in a Taxi on the tollway and the driver was going 80kmh in the middle lane... it frightened the life out of me as cars passed either side at 120kmh +

 

Thailand has itself seen fit to increase the speed-limits on these highways to 120kmh. 

 

If the speed limit on the highway was set to 50kmh I’m sure you too would think it is ridiculous and wouldn’t want to pay a ticket if you got caught at 55kmh.

 

Exceeding a 120kmh speed limit by doing 200kmh is completely different.

 

 

 

 

 

I would pay if I was breaking the speed limit. 

[Pmbkk]

You can't have it both ways !

 

On this site - constant posts re bad driving, enforcement...

When they do enforce it you complain they are starting...

 

They have to start somewhere - hopefully a step in the right direction.

[orchis]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Do they supply you with a photo as proof?  Could there have been gridlocked traffic and everyone in the intersection when the light turned red was pinched and sent a ticket?  Sounds a little suspicious to me if there is no proof or a photo sent with the ticket.

from the OP, first sentence:
"I've recently received two 500 baht tickets with photographic evidence claiming I went through a red light."

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I would pay if I was breaking the speed limit. 

 

I would say the same, but the reality is I haven’t paid any !

 

My Wife has had two speeding tickets this year and some ‘line crossing’ violations.

 

The two speeding tickets were for the same offence - Speeding at 128kmh in the 120kmh expressway. 

Time of both offences: 13:53hrs - both tickets same date same time, different ticket receipts / different receipt numbers. The tickets have different camera angles of the photo of the car speeding.

 

If two different cameras have picked us up at exactly the same time on exactly the same day doing exactly the same speed they are probably correct. 

 

I’m not sure if there is any recourse to have one of the tickets cancelled as its a ‘double charge’ but neither my wife nor I can be bothered getting in to it, at least until we are forced to.