Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[samran]

Was just in Ubon this last weekend!

 

Yep the requirements have gone up to 30k per month or 15k if you are a civil servant. 

 

The reality is you can just self declare via a PND 90(?) and the tax on that 360k p.a is still minimal, but that seemed to be lost on some of the people in the online discussion I mentioned who just saw 30k for their husbands as to high. 

 

It do wonder how the new levels will affect applications from border countries. I suspect it will cut a lot of women out of contention.

[Arkady]

On 6/28/2018 at 7:06 PM, yankee99 said:

Next step SB should contact you when your file is ready/goes to moi. 

 

 

Personally {just a feeling} i think the NIA interview is very important and weighs heavily on the process as from what others have said its longer and more intense then the moi interview. 

It makes sense for the NIA to be taking its role in the process more seriously now that there are a large number of applicants that have not already been exhaustively scrutinized by Immigration in the PR process, as was the case in the past. But my sense is that the MOI checks files carefully before the interviews and sometimes summons candidates for pre-interview screening and may reject them before the interview, if deemed unqualified. The other agencies on the MOI interview panel may also ask for a review of qualifications after the interview, which can account for the rare cases of rejection after the interview. While the MOI interview is less of a raw fact checking exercise than the NIA, the fact checking there occurs more behind the scenes and the MOI can theoretically recommend the use of the minister’s discretion. But ministers seem to use their discretion only on the timing of their signature and fortunately the current encumbent is quick with his pen

[GarryP]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

It makes sense for the NIA to be taking its role in the process more seriously now that there are a large number of applicants that have not already been exhaustively scrutinized by Immigration in the PR process, as was the case in the past. But my sense is that the MOI checks files carefully before the interviews and sometimes summons candidates for pre-interview screening and may reject them before the interview, if deemed unqualified. The other agencies on the MOI interview panel may also ask for a review of qualifications after the interview, which can account for the rare cases of rejection after the interview. While the MOI interview is less of a raw fact checking exercise than the NIA, the fact checking there occurs more behind the scenes and the MOI can theoretically recommend the use of the minister’s discretion. But ministers seem to use their discretion only on the timing of their signature and fortunately the current encumbent is quick with his pen

I think, but am not absolutely sure, that mine was one of he cases requiring "use of the minister's discretion". I certainly submitted a letter addressed to the minister via the chairman of the MOI interview committee requesting fairness after I was called back for a second interview by the committee. The first interview was at the old MOI building before cases were transferred to BORA. My case had rung some alarm bells as it appeared that I had leapfrogged other applicants who had applied before me. In fact I had and was not denying it, but there were genuine reasons for my first expedited interview that the officers at BORA were not aware of.  

 

Anyway, the chairman of the interview committee read my letter and listened to what I had to say (my 25 year old son was with me at the time), and appeared sympathetic to my situation. He said he would let the committee know that he had met me and what had been said. I then left and let him finish his breakfast.  

 

I must also admit that my letter did contain a veiled threat that were my case not treated fairly, I may have to bring it to the attention of the Administrative Court. Initially I did not want to include that in the letter, but I was advised to keep it in.        

[sanchobkk]

Hi i ve been following up.this thread for a while, and i didnt find anything about how long the whole process takes ? I think it iaed to be something like 3 years (from the first application to the thai id card pick up step), but it may have changed ? Any recent experience is welcome.

Thanks very much

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, sanchobkk said:

Hi i ve been following up.this thread for a while, and i didnt find anything about how long the whole process takes ? I think it iaed to be something like 3 years (from the first application to the thai id card pick up step), but it may have changed ? Any recent experience is welcome.

Thanks very much

There is no publicly disclosed time horizon for the entire process, although the current interior minister is believed to have set some internal targets for this and has certainly speeded things up considerably, since he took office after the coup in 2014.  Around three years seems to be a reasonable expectation under the current government but no one can say what will happen once there is a change of government and interior minister.  Most likely there will be reversion to norm either immediately or over time and the norm before the 2014 coup was a process that took 3-8 years or so for most applicants with some outliers that were more or less than that range.  The fastest I heard of was 18 months and the longest was 11 years.  The very short ones probably had good connections to the minister but there was usually no rhyme or reason why applicants were left cooling their heels for over 5 years - files probably just covered up at the bottom of an in-tray.  

[skippy121]

ok can anyone advise on how many points I will get

 

am planning to apply in december once I am married,

 

Worked here nearly 5 years with continuous Non-B and work permit

 

Tax paid all those years, current salary 81k , previous year 76, previous year 72, previous 65

 

Higher certificate but not degree, microsoft certs

 

age 40 soon

 

no language skills,

 

question is I think I can get over 50 if I get 25 points for salary over 40k when married,

does being married recently count against me even if my non-b is 4 years +

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Guns]

If applying on the grounds of marriage you need to be married for a minimum of 3 years

[skippy121]

15 hours ago, Big Guns said:

If applying on the grounds of marriage you need to be married for a minimum of 3 years

thanks

 

I was hoping that my 4+ years here would nullify the 3 year wait under marriage. another dream dashed 

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, skippy121 said:

thanks

 

I was hoping that my 4+ years here would nullify the 3 year wait under marriage. another dream dashed 

 

The only exception to this is that only one year of marriage is required is you have a child together. As far as I know, it doesn't matter, if you already had the child before the marriage was registered, as long as you can prove it belongs to both of you.

 

While you are waiting, you can start making donations to registered Thai charities, get yourself on a yellow tabien baan in Bangkok and work on your Thai language skills to improve your points.

[skippy121]

17 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The only exception to this is that only one year of marriage is required is you have a child together. As far as I know, it doesn't matter, if you already had the child before the marriage was registered, as long as you can prove it belongs to both of you.

 

While you are waiting, you can start making donations to registered Thai charities, get yourself on a yellow tabien baan in Bangkok and work on your Thai language skills to improve your points.

am thinking that getting a certificate from a higher education college/university might be the quickest way to get a "connection" with thailand to enable me to get more points from a lower salary,

 

how difficult could it be to earn a certificate from a Thai uni/college, one year max surely

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, skippy121 said:

how difficult could it be to earn a certificate from a Thai uni/college, one year max surely

What kind of certificate are you after?

If you want a degree it will take more than 1 year.

My friend got a law degree recently and it was very difficult, especially all being in the Thai language. I've no idea why you think it would be easy.

If you have no language skills, after living and working in the country for five years, I think you should start Thai classes if you want to be a Thai citizen.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Neeranam

[skippy121]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

What kind of certificate are you after?

If you want a degree it will take more than 1 year.

My friend got a law degree recently and it was very difficult, especially all being in the Thai language. I've no idea why you think it would be easy.

same as back home,

 

you have certificate = 1 year , diploma = 2 years , BA = 3 years

 

question is does a 1 year certificate count as graduated from a thai establishment

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, skippy121 said:

same as back home,

 

you have certificate = 1 year , diploma = 2 years , BA = 3 years

 

question is does a 1 year certificate count as graduated from a thai establishment

Are you willing to be a full time student for 3 years, aged 40, with a young child?

 

[Neeranam]

A bachelor's degree is only 2 points more than a diploma, and 5 points more than finishing high school.

Surly there is a better way to find your missing 5 points.

You have 25 points from your salary, you only need 25 more.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Neeranam

[Johnniey]

31 minutes ago, skippy121 said:

same as back home,

 

you have certificate = 1 year , diploma = 2 years , BA = 3 years

 

question is does a 1 year certificate count as graduated from a thai establishment

What is a "certificate"?

 

BTW, you would get 10 points for your age.

 

Also 5 points for personality!

 

learn to read Thai and you'd get 8 points pretty easily for the multiple choice test.

 

Point for length of stay in Thailand, you're sorted. 

[skippy121]

ok so this is the question,

 

I understand that if married under 3 years, I cannot qualify for more points for lower salary etc

 

but can my wife still be in the interviews with me to help with translation, am sure I could take 10 points from knowledge of thailand with a translater

[Johnniey]

1 hour ago, skippy121 said:

ok so this is the question,

 

I understand that if married under 3 years, I cannot qualify for more points for lower salary etc

 

but can my wife still be in the interviews with me to help with translation, am sure I could take 10 points from knowledge of thailand with a translater

You have to wait until you have been married for 3 years before you can apply. Otherwise, many people would get married just to become a citizen, then get divorced.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Johnniey

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, skippy121 said:

am thinking that getting a certificate from a higher education college/university might be the quickest way to get a "connection" with thailand to enable me to get more points from a lower salary,

 

how difficult could it be to earn a certificate from a Thai uni/college, one year max surely

My MBA took two years, my PhD almost 7 years.

[skippy121]

10 hours ago, Johnniey said:

You have to wait until you have been married for 3 years before you can apply. Otherwise, many people would get married just to become a citizen, then get divorced.

 

I understand that and understand that if not married, you get less points for certain things,

 

what I am asking is that can my wife act as a translater for me even if I do not get any extra points for being married.

 

[Johnniey]

3 minutes ago, skippy121 said:

I understand that and understand that if not married, you get less points for certain things,

 

what I am asking is that can my wife act as a translater for me even if I do not get any extra points for being married.

 

Easier to wait 3 years than go the alternative route, which is getting Permanent Residency first.

[greenchair]

12 hours ago, skippy121 said:

ok so this is the question,

 

I understand that if married under 3 years, I cannot qualify for more points for lower salary etc

 

but can my wife still be in the interviews with me to help with translation, am sure I could take 10 points from knowledge of thailand with a translater

Your wife  can be with you throughout the process and she can translate. 

Relax. It'll be fun. 

[Johnniey]

34 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Your wife  can be with you throughout the process and she can translate. 

Relax. It'll be fun. 

He's not married !

[yankee99]

51 minutes ago, skippy121 said:

I understand that and understand that if not married, you get less points for certain things,

 

what I am asking is that can my wife act as a translater for me even if I do not get any extra points for being married.

 

Your wife can translate and in my case i let her talk 90% of the time. I can assure you that some basic thai is necessary and SB has told me more than once to improve my thai which imho is adequate for day to day but not adequate for the questions they ask. 

 

 

[skippy121]

Thanks for your help so far

 

so my remaining doubt is if I can clear 51 points without needing to be married, do I need PR status or will my continuous non-b status be ok 

[greenchair]

27 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

He's not married !

Why's he asking about his wife then Einstein? 

[Johnniey]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:21 PM, skippy121 said:

 

 

am planning to apply in december once I am married,

 

Worked here nearly 5 years with continuous Non-B and work permit

 

Tax paid all those years, current salary 81k , previous year 76, previous year 72, previous 65

 

Higher certificate but not degree, microsoft certs

 

age 40 soon

 

no language skills,

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't take Einstein to be able to interpret this as meaning he  is not married yet. 

[yankee99]

37 minutes ago, skippy121 said:

Thanks for your help so far

 

so my remaining doubt is if I can clear 51 points without needing to be married, do I need PR status or will my continuous non-b status be ok 

Marriage does not gain points only lets you apply in 3 years no children in 1 year with children....

 

Having only a non b is not a path to citizenship 

[skippy121]

1 hour ago, yankee99 said:

Marriage does not gain points only lets you apply in 3 years no children in 1 year with children....

 

Having only a non b is not a path to citizenship 

ok,

 

so what you saying is that without marriage or kids, I need pr status , is that correct

[Big Guns]

If you go down the PR route you have to gain it first then have it for 5 years before you apply for citizenship. Your best route is get married, continue to have a job, work permit, pay taxes and make some charitable donations. Then you can apply after 3 years. If you're married you don't really need to have much Thai language ability if you can achieve enough points without it. I got Thai citizenship and my Thai language ability is very poor. Your wife can translate for you at all the interviews. At least try to memorise  some sentences and phrases to show that you've made an effort.

[Arkady]

17 hours ago, skippy121 said:

ok so this is the question,

 

I understand that if married under 3 years, I cannot qualify for more points for lower salary etc

 

but can my wife still be in the interviews with me to help with translation, am sure I could take 10 points from knowledge of thailand with a translater

 

If you have not registered your marriage for 3 years, you don't qualify at all, unless you have had permanent residence for 5 years. Your wife must be interviewed with you at the MoI interview and can assist with translation, if you apply on the basis of marriage.  If you apply on the basis of PR, she cannot be with you and the interview will take longer, as they have to assess your Thai language skills and singing ability.

 

From what you have posted it seems that you will get 40 points from your age, income and higher diploma (if they accept it).  Without any Thai language skills at all, you will be a bit marginal relying on getting 10 points from Knowledge of Thailand and personality (assessment based on personality, physical appearance and bearing, speech, Thai manners, attitude towards Thailand, Thai culture and ceremonies).  Yes, the Knowledge test is not particularly difficult but I only got 8 points the first time I did it (I was made to come back and do it again for reasons I won't go into here and got 10 the second time).  There are often some deceptive questions where the multiple choice answer that looks the most obvious at first glance is actually the wrong answer. There are also questions that your wife will not know the answer to just because she is Thai, e.g. questions relating to the Nationality Act.  I would guess that a lot of people get 8 points in the test.  If you get 8 points in the test, getting 2 points for personality is essential and whether you pass or fail is entirely up to whether the section head who assesses the points for personality likes you or not. Some people who were unable to speak Thai have reported they were upset by getting low points for personality, e.g. only 1 or 2.  Given that the section head needs to assess your speech, Thai manners, culture and attitude to Thailand, you will almost certainly not get 5 points for personality, if you cannot speak Thai at all, which actually seems perfectly fair.

 

The best investment of time in the 3 years you will have to wait to qualify, is learning to speak and understand Thai well enough to communicate with you assessors directly.  As well as earning points for Thai language skills, that will almost certainly boost your points for personality and possibly in the Knowledge test as well.  It also will make your life in Thailand easier, more interesting and more enjoyable.