How is real estate living area calculated?

[Sakeopete]

Sorry if this has been asked before, searching this forum yielded no results. I noticed that the size of houses and lots listed for sale seem unrealistic. For example I seen a 2 bedroom house in a village state 155 m/sq. living area 225 m/sq. land. I always though sq. footage was based on room size. The house looks small in the photos how could it be 155 m/sq.? Is patio area included ?

[VocalNeal]

Look at the house. If it is big enough for your needs and the price is right. Buy it?

[1FinickyOne]

I have been told, anything under roof... I was surprised one time when a rather small house on stilts included the open area underneath it and an open air garage which was incredibly unsubstantial...

 

If you go look - then it is what you see... and the number of sq. m is not important.

[Sakeopete]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Look at the house. If it is big enough for your needs and the price is right. Buy it?

I already own a house, it is a technical question I posed not unsolicited advice.

[kingofthemountain]

25 minutes ago, Sakeopete said:

Sorry if this has been asked before, searching this forum yielded no results. I noticed that the size of houses and lots listed for sale seem unrealistic. For example I seen a 2 bedroom house in a village state 155 m/sq. living area 225 m/sq. land. I always though sq. footage was based on room size. The house looks small in the photos how could it be 155 m/sq.? Is patio area included ?

I doubt there is any regulation about the legal rquirments in a list for sale in Thailand and even if there is one, i doubt it will be enforced in any way.

 

That means that the seller can write what he is pleased with, and making the prices in relation with it

every sqm added on the advertising is a way to attract some customers and also increase the asking price.

 

So yes the patio area is probably included, like is also included in the ''living area'' the car port, the alley around the house and so on

 

The buyer is still free to do a better metering when he comes for a visit

then if he is interested he can negociate the price on the ''real'' sqm basis

Edited May 15, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[Sakeopete]

28 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

I doubt there is any regulation about the legal rquirments in a list for sale in Thailand and even if there is one, i doubt it will be enforced in any way.

 

That means that the seller can write what he is pleased with, and making the prices in relation with it

every sqm added on the advertising is a way to attract some customers and also increase the asking price.

 

So yes the patio area is probably included, like is also included in the ''living area'' the car port, the alley around the house and so on

 

The buyer is still free to do a better metering when he comes for a visit

then if he is interested he can negociate the price on the ''real'' sqm basis

You would think agents would use the same criteria, mind you I think their adverts are also misleading when they use super wide angle lens that make tiny rooms or swimming pools look much larger than they actually are.

[OneMoreFarang]

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

[kingofthemountain]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

From my experience it's indeed a very usual practice in Thailand

[wordchild]

I have asked the same question several times. The answers i have had varied agent to agent.

i think , in general,  agents mean ALL the available space ie  balconies/patios, aircon compressor stacks,  internal wall space (believe it or not)  etc etc.

However the Land Department should have historically  accurate data for any particular land plot or condo.

A  property lawyer once advised me to always make an offer subject to the Land Departments registered details re unit/land size.

ie as a buyer, you offer xxx,xxx per sq m, (or per sq Wa if house plot)  based on the data held by the Land Department. That advice has saved me some cash before. 

Needless to say, nothing beats going to have a look yourself.

Edited May 15, 2021 by wordchild

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, wordchild said:

I have asked the same question several times. The answers i have had varied agent to agent.

i think , in general,  agents mean ALL the available space ie  balconies/patios, aircon compressor stacks,  internal wall space (believe it or not)  etc etc.

However the Land Department should have historically  accurate data for any particular land plot or condo.

A  property lawyer once advised me to always make an offer subject to the Land Departments registered details re unit/land size.

ie as a buyer, you offer xxx,xxx per sq m, (or per sq Wa if house plot)  based on the data held by the Land Department. That advice has saved me some cash before. 

But is the xxx,xxx per sq m binding? Or the advertised price? I can't imagine a seller has to accept a price which was calculated by sqm multiplied by price per sqm.

[wordchild]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But is the xxx,xxx per sq m binding? Or the advertised price? I can't imagine a seller has to accept a price which was calculated by sqm multiplied by price per sqm.

You can specify in the initial  purchase agreement that the offer price can be adjusted (up or down) based on the Land Departments registered/survey details. Its up to the seller if they wish to accept such a clause. 

I did this once , with a land purchase , and the sellers declared size turned out to be 0.75 sq wa higher than the Land Department figures,  he accepted the adjusted (lower) price. Saved me the lawyers fees!

Edited May 15, 2021 by wordchild

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

My condo sqm includes the outside balcony area but being a duplex does not include the upper bedroom area for land office records or common fee assessment.  Go figure.

[Delight]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

 An apartment  can potentially have 2 measurements-within a condo complex.

 

Measurement 1 

 

This is the area that the apartment occupies within the building . It is usually the dimension from the outside of the  corridor wall  to the extreme side  of the balcony- multiplied by the distance between the center of the columns. This gives an area typically denoted in M2.

 

Measurement 2.

 

This  measurement is calculated by the land office.

in essence it details the area that you are allowed to legally own.

 

The following cannot be owned by the owner who is  detailed on the Condominium Title deed.

 

a) The columns or any part thereof

b) The balcony wall

c) The corridor wall

 

Consequently the owner has  no right to modify these items.

 

So measurement 1 -in my case is 77 square  meters

 

My measurement 2 is 74.5 square meters

 

Conveniently the  common area fees are calculated using measurement 2

[jackdd]

It might of course vary, but in most condos that I've looked at the size of the balcony is included.

In a house they probably also count stuff like the patio, maybe even the car park.

[Guderian]

In most cases, the larger the floor area the higher the price, so it pays the agent and owner to make it sound larger than it actually is. One house I looked at in Pattaya claimed to be 180 sqm which it clearly was not when I visited. The guy had added a large gazebo on the roof and had included that area plus the large steel staircase to get up to it plus all the land underneath the eaves to get his 180 sqm. Estate agents here usually just get offered the property and details as supplied by the owner, they don't immediately go out and measure a new property up themselves, so there's bound to be a lot of nonsensical numbers in the adverts. Caveat emptor.

[LukKrueng]

On 5/15/2021 at 4:17 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

With condos is easy. 

1. In the chanot (if you can get a copy of it) it shows the measurements of the actual condo area and balconies are measured separately. 

2. The monthly maintenance fees are calculated by official size, so you could ask the condo's office what it is. 

Houses don't have a chanot (in most cases) so I guess there's no official way of measuring it. Maybe - only maybe - by trying to reticent the building plans submitted to the district/ sub district office, and that will only be correct if the house was built according to the plans. 

[jackdd]

23 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

1. In the chanot (if you can get a copy of it) it shows the measurements of the actual condo area and balconies are measured separately. 

2. The monthly maintenance fees are calculated by official size, so you could ask the condo's office what it is. 

I just had a look at the Chanote of the condo here.

On the sketch the balcony and the rooms are separated and it gives the measurement for each.

But in the text below the sketch, it says "total size: xx sqm" and this is balcony + rooms.

This total size is what the maintenance fees here are based on and is also the size everybody uses in their advertisements.

 

[newnative]

On 5/15/2021 at 4:17 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

Condo sqm includes the balcony space, too.

[Irishrogue]

When I listed my property I measured every area inside the home which was a total of 270 sq meters. The covered parking area was defined by how many cars could be parked, balcony was measured and noted separately. The plot size had to be shown on provided land registration dicuments.

[Autonuaq]

On 5/15/2021 at 11:17 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's not only houses.

Recently I measured the condominium which I rent. The measured sqm was also less then the size which was advertised when I rented it.

I also would like to know how this is officially calculated. 

normally is is at the height of 1.5 meter from the ground that is the area. wall under an angle depend of the angle outward if one still uses the 1.5 meter height because then also the edge of the floor/wall can (must) be use.

in general on is quiet safe to use the 1.5 meter from the ground to make the estimation of the space.

[RocketDog]

When I bought a house here a year ago I was astounded to be told by the real estate agent that such numbers come from the seller and are not verified. That sounds uncomfortable enough to be true. 

[khunPer]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:32 AM, Sakeopete said:

I already own a house, it is a technical question I posed not unsolicited advice.

The open life-style in Thailand makes definition "living area" little different from a Western country with closed buildings. A covered and shady terrace or balcony can be excellent living area in Thailand; some have even calculate the house size's square meters as the foot print of the roof.

 

So from a Western point of measuring living area is the the closed area of the house, excluding garage, and with eventual area of terraces and balconies accounted separately; from a Thai point of measuring it's any area that are covered from sun and rain.

 

It's great when "living area" comes with a specification of how it's measured...????

[Excel]

In Thailand generally the size of the house will be the external area including balconies / car ports etc.  They do not advertise properties giving the internal floor areas. That is why the description of a house in terms of area may appear misleading when you look at pictures.  After saying that in all my years here I have seen one or two houses listed for sale privately where the internal living area is given.  But that is very rare and usually only when a foreigner is selling. 

[siam dreamers]

I also just asked the selling agent about how the list the sq. meter and he said everything under the roof. 

 

 His wife sent us the house plans and what they told me matched the number on the listing. It included all the living,storage, terrace space under the roof excluding the garage.

 

I was surprise that the numbers matched because my agent, who is a farang,  tends to give me short incomplete answers. He seems to resent when I ask him basic due diligence questions I would ask about any propertyor large investment I make.  He brags to me about how he does due diligence on any house he list, and has in fact sold or managed a couple idenical houses in our 7 house community, but when I ask questions pertaining to my own due diligence I have to push him.  He is not hiding anything but just a poor salesman who can't hide his disdain for other people.   

 

As I buyer I have a right to know/find out as much information as I can BEFORE I put the money down. The reason I specifically need to know the approximate sq. meters, who runs the neiborhood finances, are their neiborhood rules, where are fees go, what our finances are like, ect. is I like to know what I am buying and when the day when I list the property I also know I 'm selling. Basically being an American and dealing with an American agent is no more illuminating that having my wife speak to his wife and dealing with  lost in translation.