Will Your Next Ride Be Electric?

[Pattaya Spotter]

My 8 y/o ICE Honda Accord is at the dealer for some TLC so I had occasion to use Grab Taxi today in Phuket. I was picked up by a new MG EP, which is MG's new all electric station wagon model. (https://www.mgcars.com/th/mg-models/new-mg-ep/overview) I will confess to following the progress of electric vehicles these past few years with some interest...especially the sage and now seeming triumph of Tesla Motors and its mucurial and visionary founder Elon Musk. The technology itself also fascinates me and I follow a few electric vehicle channels on YT, so am pretty well versed on the technology of the electric platform and it pros and cons. 

 

While only a short ride, I was very impressed by this vehicle. Despite it being made by a "second tier" Chinese auto manufacturer, the ride was very smooth, the interior was spacious, and the back storage space impressive. [I believe this is the only "station wagon" type car sold in Thailand.] The fit and finish of the interior, from what I could tell from 2 rides (from and to my residence) looked good. The driver was very enthusiastic about the car, explaining the cost to charge it from empty to 80% (typical charge for electric vehicles... charging to 100% isn't recommended) takes 30-40 minutes at a high-power charger and 6-7 hours using the home charger. The cost for the high-charger being B250-350 and for that he can go 300-350 kilometers. That's a pretty darn cheap price per kilometer. At current prices, filling up my Accord costs around B1500 and I can go about 650 kilometers on a tank. The MG therefore is about half the cost of Gasohol 91.

 

We also discussed the well known attributes of the low maintenance cost for electric vehicles, because there are so few moving parts...basically, they have just a large battery and an electric motor...no transmission, gears, belts, and chains. There is much less regular maintenance because they have no engine oil, transmission fluids, and the like that need topping up. MG also warrants the battery for 8 years/180,000k, whichever come first. The main downside to electrics is the charging time and relative paucity of chargers. However, the charging network is slowly being rolled out and the Thai government has made electrification of vehicles a priority. The MG website says their goal is to have their own HS charging points every 150k as soon as 2021. Oh. And the price of EP...about 900,000 baht.

[Crossy]

Yup, it our intention to go BEV for our next new car, probably be a couple of years down the road now.

 

Madam is in "green" mode at present (hence all my solar stuff).

 

The EP seems great value, 300-350km range and sub 1MB what's not to like?

[Pattaya Spotter]

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yup, it our intention to go BEV for our next new car, probably be a couple of years down the road now.

 

Madam is in "green" mode at present (hence all my solar stuff).

 

The EP seems great value, 300-350km range and sub 1MB what's not to like?

I'm seriously considering jumping into the future as well in a year or two, when I give up the Honda. It's curious how far behind the Japanese are when it comes to electric cars...not just Thailand but worldwide. They placed a big bet on hybrid technology but that's just a stop-gap measure, with basically all the downsides of ICE vehicles (they still have complex mechanical engines) with some of the benefits of electrics...basically they've put two propulsion systems in the place of one! Toyota has also put a lot of time and effort into its hydrogen car technology, the Mirare, but it's basically been a flop. The Chinese may eat the Japanese/Korean manufacturer's sushi/bulgogi in this new vehicle technology. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[rumak]

I am going to test drive one first :

 

[johng]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

what's not to like?

 

 

For one thing

15 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

 it being made by a "second tier" Chinese auto manufacturer,

and I wouldn't  be surprised if every time you plug it in it's sending "telemetry" home to PRC headquarters ????

[Pattaya Spotter]

25 minutes ago, johng said:

 

 

For one thing

and I wouldn't  be surprised if every time you plug it in it's sending "telemetry" home to PRC headquarters ????

The NSA is already logging your every internet search, phone text message, and social media post so what's the difference. Personal privacy disappeared with the advent of the internet and cheap data storage and analysis. 

 

Do I care if President Xi and the CCP know everywhere I'm driving in Thailand and can see my face on camera...not really.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The NSA is already logging your every internet search, phone text message, and social media post so what's the difference. Personal privacy disappeared with the advent of the internet and cheap data storage and analysis. 

Not that it matters what the NSA or MI6 are doing none of it is in my name. 

[Surelynot]

Won't hesitate once.......

 

the infrastructure for charging is in place  

cost/mile are commensurate with current petrol/diesel costs

cost of EV's are similar to petrol/diesel cars.

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Won't hesitate once.......

 

the infrastructure for charging is in place  

cost/mile are commensurate with current petrol/diesel costs

cost of EV's are similar to petrol/diesel cars.

 

It depends on the price of electricity and gasoline in each market and the specific vehicles being compared. However, at current prices, the cost per kilo in Thailand seems about half what I pay with my Accord. And yes, once the charging network starts to mature, it will make the switch much easier. Looking at the map on MG's website, there are 3-4 HP charging points in Phuket and 5 in and around Pattaya, where I normally reside. There must be 25-30 gas stations in the immediate Pattaya area.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[Surelynot]

Just now, Pattaya Spotter said:

It depends on the price of electricity and gasoline in each market and the specific vehicles being compared. However, at current prices, the cost per kilo in Thailand seems about half what I pay with my Accord. And yes, once the charging network starts to mature, it will make the switch much easier. Looking at the map on MG's website, there are 3-4 HP charging points in Phuket and 5 in and around Pattaya, where I normally reside. There must be 25-30 gas stations in the immediate Pattaya area.

It seems the biggest benefit will be for places like Bangkok (pollution/noise).......but then most/many people live in condos......it seems charging will be a constant headache until condo car parks are installed with charging points for every parking space??????

[Pattaya Spotter]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

It seems the biggest benefit will be for places like Bangkok (pollution/noise).......but then most/many people live in condos......it seems charging will be a constant headache until condo car parks are installed with charging points for every parking space??????

It's definitely going to be a niche market for a long time...even California, one of the earliest adopters is only at around 5% electric cars. But as you point out, large communal living spaces like Apts and condos are a challenge for charging, especially if there are a lot of EV owners present. Home owners don't have a problem. One answer is chargers at Apts/condos AND workplaces.

[Airalee]

If they make a little 2 seater convertible like a Mazda MX5 (or something similar) with a better range (I like long roadtrips such as the Maehongson loop) and a realistic price (฿1,000,000 max) then sure.  But if the only choices are 4 door sedans, wagons and SUVs then no thanks.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

It seems the biggest benefit will be for places like Bangkok (pollution/noise).......but then most/many people live in condos......it seems charging will be a constant headache until condo car parks are installed with charging points for every parking space??????

I agree, living in condos will limit many from getting any sort of EV. My block in jomtiem is going to get 2-3 coin operated quick charge stations, next to the guards office so they can enforce a time limit.

We already have a problem with a couple of old guys charging up their mobility chairs in the lobby.

[Rookiescot]

Dammit I thought this was a thread about those new fangled sex dolls you can buy from Japan.

[Pattaya Spotter]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I agree, living in condos will limit many from getting any sort of EV. My block in jomtiem is going to get 2-3 coin operated quick charge stations, next to the guards office so they can enforce a time limit.

We already have a problem with a couple of old guys charging up their mobility chairs in the lobby.

I guess these "baloon chasers" have resorted to this as the bars have been closed for so long they actually have to buy food now.

[canthai55]

Not until the infrastructure is in place. 20 years at least - 30 years ?

For around town I have my bikes.

For road trips a complete no go

[Pattaya Spotter]

7 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Not until the infrastructure is in place. 20 years at least - 30 years ?

For around town I have my bikes.

For road trips a complete no go

I think electrics is coming to passenger vehicles much sooner than that...even in places like Thailand. I believe the government already has goals for substantial electrification within a decade. But there is already huge sunk costs and investment in gasoline infrastructure so it won't happen overnight but eventually...10-15 years maybe 30-40% of new car sales.

[richard_smith237]

Given the yearly pollution issues in Thailand I find out outrageous that the Thai government still tax EV’s.

 

Why can’t Tesla’s be purchased in Thailand for the a similar price they can be purchased for in the US ? (perhaps with the additional shipping costs etc). 

 

There is no reason to Tax these cars 220% other than greed... the government is clearly not truly interested in clean transport. 

 

That said: there would need to be a support network (i.e. servicing etc) which does not existing in Thailand for Tesla etc.

 

Thus: the way to go for the time being will be something like Volvo T8 Engines.

 

A fully electric car would be idea for Bangkok, nipping to the shops and school run.

[Pattaya Spotter]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Given the yearly pollution issues in Thailand I find out outrageous that the Thai government still tax EV’s.

 

Why can’t Tesla’s be purchased in Thailand for the a similar price they can be purchased for in the US ? (perhaps with the additional shipping costs etc). 

 

There is no reason to Tax these cars 220% other than greed... the government is clearly not truly interested in clean transport. 

 

That said: there would need to be a support network (i.e. servicing etc) which does not existing in Thailand for Tesla etc.

 

Thus: the way to go for the time being will be something like Volvo T8 Engines.

 

A fully electric car would be idea for Bangkok, nipping to the shops and school run.

Teslas are considered a luxury imported car and thus attract very high excise taxes (gotta pay for those submarines somehow) but I believe certain imported EVs actually have preferential tax rates. The MG I rode in cost less than 1M baht. It's not a Tesla but perfectly acceptable if the aim is to have the benefits of an EV...if one just wants to flaunt their wealth well they just have to pay up (otherwise it wouldn't be flaunting now would it).

[canthai55]

It takes 3 years to install an overpass where the existing roads are already in place.

Do you honestly believe that the extra power plants can be built, the HT lines strung, the charging points installed, in 10 to 15 years ?

MAYBE they can do BKK in 20 years - maybe

The rest of the country - 555

[Peterw42]

Given that most of Thailand's electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, any electric vehicles is just moving the pollution from the car to the power station.

You could replace every vehicle in Thailand with an EV, it would just mean the gas/coal fired power plants up their output and make more pollution.

There is only ever a net gain if the power comes from solar, wind etc

[Pattaya Spotter]

22 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

It takes 3 years to install an overpass where the existing roads are already in place.

Do you honestly believe that the extra power plants can be built, the HT lines strung, the charging points installed, in 10 to 15 years ?

MAYBE they can do BKK in 20 years - maybe

The rest of the country - 555

A lot of the charging will be at nite, when the load on the electrical grid is lower. Replace a quarter (to start) of the benzene pumps to electrical ones. Yes, there are issues but nothing that can't be overcome and again, it will take years.

[Pattaya Spotter]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Given that most of Thailand's electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, any electric vehicles is just moving the pollution from the car to the power station.

You could replace every vehicle in Thailand with an EV, it would just mean the gas/coal fired power plants up their output and make more pollution.

There is only ever a net gain if the power comes from solar, wind etc

That's true...but there are other benefits of EVs both to the environment (no soot and nitrous oxides) and buyers. But your basic point is correct, EVs are only as green as their electric power source. 

[Klonko]

I have a Tesla in Europe and will never go back to combustion engines for cars. In Thailand, I have to wait until the charging infrastructure will meet my requirements, which I expect to be the case within the next two years. For charging at home, I will probably install solar cells on my roof.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Klonko

[rumak]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The NSA is already logging your every internet search, phone text message, and social media post so what's the difference. Personal privacy disappeared with the advent of the internet and cheap data storage and analysis. 

 

Spot on Spotter .   BTW:  I still haven't received the decrypted code for making mankind a kinder  (oops)  or  faceblock  friendlier place and Gaggle keeps telling me to update update update.    Wants me to come into their office...... in Nakorn Sawan ??   promises of peace on Earth.    haha     " I won't get fooled again !  "

[Pattaya Spotter]

4 minutes ago, Klonko said:

I have a Tesla in Europe and will never go back to combustion engines for cars. In Thailand, I have to wait until the charging infrastructure will meet my requirements, which I expect to be the case within the next two years. For charging at home, I will probably install solar cells on my roof.

In Thailand, at least you're already starting with 220 volt power for charging and not the 110 commonly found in America ⚡

[Pattaya Spotter]

7 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

Spot on Spotter .   BTW:  I still haven't received the decrypted code for making mankind a kinder  (oops)  or  faceblock  friendlier place and Gaggle keeps telling me to update update update.    Wants me to come into their office...... in Nakorn Sawan ??   promises of peace on Earth.    haha     " I won't get fooled again !  "

Okay "905" ????

[impulse]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

In Thailand, at least you're already starting with 220 volt power for charging and not the 110 commonly found in America 

 

America is a 220V system, too.  But it's split into 110/110.  Still, every home and apartment I've ever lived in has 220V available for the A/C, stove, water heater, and dryer.  Plus, American homes are generally wired for massive loads, way more than the average Thai homes.

My concern with EV in Thailand is what happens to the grid when there's 20% or more EV penetration.  It's like the guys who recycle old cooking oil into bio-diesel.  Works great until it catches on, then there's not enough used cooking oil to go around.  Today, with minimal EV market penetration, there's plenty of juice...  In 5-10 years?

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by impulse

[Pattaya Spotter]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

America is a 220V system, too.  But it's split into 110/110.  Still, every home and apartment I've ever lived in has 220V available for the A/C, stove, water heater, and dryer.  Plus, American homes are generally wired for massive loads, way more than the average Thai homes.

My concern with EV in Thailand is what happens to the grid when there's 20% or more EV penetration.  It's like the guys who recycle old cooking oil into bio-diesel.  Works great until it catches on, then there's not enough used cooking oil to go around.  Today, with minimal EV market penetration, there's plenty of juice...  In 5-10 years?

 

Yes, most Thai homes would have to be upgraded to safety handle charging of an electric vehicle. However, most purchases for the next few years will be upper-income professional types who have the means to make these adjustments to their residences. I don't know if this is still the case, but for awhile, MG was offering free installation of a home charging station and so many meters of power line to the nearest mains utility line when purchasing one of their EV models but I don't know if theyre still doing this.

 

The ability of the grid to handle the increased electric load if/when there is substantial EV uptake is an issue all countries will have to face. Luckily, this will happen slowly and electric companies will have time to make the necessary investments in increased electricity supply. (Just means more money and profits for them.) I have seen evaluations online on this issue and I can't remember the statistics but even with substantial EVs on the road, electrical generating capacity doesn't have to expand dramatically...maybe 20-30% or something like that; it's not like the electricity supply has to double or triple. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I have seen evaluations online on this issue and I can't remember the statistics but even with substantial EVs on the road, electrical generating capacity doesn't have to expand dramatically...maybe 20-30% or something like that; it's not like the electricity supply has to double or triple. 

 

I recall a few years back rolling blackouts because Thailand couldn't import enough natural gas to feed existing loads.

 

If EV's take a natural progression they'll probably be able to keep up on the grid.  If the gub'ment does another first EV car subsidy like they did a few years ago for ICE cars, it could swamp the grid, and add tons more families to the delinquent loan rolls.