Neighbor takes over land that does not belong to him . What to do ?

[phetphet]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

I was just used to cross this land for 5 yrs already , until a  ' thief ' tells me that she does not want me to do this anymore .

Might be an idea to have another go ant buying it, or at least a small part of it that borders your land.

[nobodysfriend]

Just now, phetphet said:

Might be an idea to have another go ant buying it, or at least a small part of it that borders your land.

Afaik , the owner won't be able to sign any documents as he is dead . Have to double check ...

[phetphet]

30 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Afaik , the owner won't be able to sign any documents as he is dead . Have to double check ...

Yes, but as this sort of thing (owner of land dying with no heirs?) happens. Surely there must be a Thai legal process for the land to be acquired other than just being squatted on. But maybe not. In which case you will just have to forget about it.

 

Worth checking at land office or asking a lawyer?

[nobodysfriend]

Just an update :

After I told the neighbor that I will go and check with the land office , and if she is not registered as the owner , she will get problems , my wife got a call from the Kamnan who said , that , of course , I will have the right to cross the property , the ' sound of the music ' changed completely .

They know that they are doing something illegal , and now they know that I know this as well . That's ok or me , I do not want anything more than to be able to continue my daily walk with the dogs , just as usual .

I got this now .

They fear legal action against them as they know that they are doing something illegal .

Good for me .

[zyphodb]

2 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Just an update :

After I told the neighbor that I will go and check with the land office , and if she is not registered as the owner , she will get problems , my wife got a call from the Kamnan who said , that , of course , I will have the right to cross the property , the ' sound of the music ' changed completely .

They know that they are doing something illegal , and now they know that I know this as well . That's ok or me , I do not want anything more than to be able to continue my daily walk with the dogs , just as usual .

I got this now .

They fear legal action against them as they know that they are doing something illegal .

Good for me .

Lucky it worked out that way. Now that you've established that, don't do anything but walk your dogs there as otherwise it could end very unhappily for you...

[wombat]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:59 AM, nobodysfriend said:

I was just used to cross this land for 5 yrs already , until a  ' thief ' tells me that she does not want me to do this anymore .

change your walking track

[Scouse123]

Stop being a busy body!

 

No good will come of it. Whoever is breaking the law, keep out of it.

 

Opposite our houses of of late many have set up allotments and such, it is government land. They have fenced off and cut and established boundaries.

 

Eventually somebody from government will come along and kick them all off but it won't be because I phoned somebody or that I put my nose in!

[Sydebolle]

Very, very simple; the land owner of your plot (wife, Co Ltd?) to contact the Land department and request a re-measuring of your property borders. 

You pay a fee of THB 3'500 - THB 5'000 (against receipt) and will be given an appointment in 2 - 3 months from now. All those land owners next to your land will be informed, that the Land Department will come on Day X to re-measure the borders, find (difficult to find) marker stones etc. and compare this with their master plans they have at the Land Department. Eventual discrepancies will be clarified and all affected informed by the senior officer in attendance of the re-measuring. 

Had the very same problem; sent the Missus (I did not show up anywhere) and the neighbour who moved into our land was given a proper verbal shake-down by the officer. On leaving, the officer gave the Missus his mobile phone number and told her to call, if the original border lines were not reinstated by the invading neighbour within a week. 

Problem solved and it had nothing to do with the dirty farang - at least not officially! 

So happened in Nong Khai; professional, reliable and fair! 

[1FinickyOne]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:35 AM, nobodysfriend said:

Now she complains that I pass with my dogs , because it is ' HER ' land , she says . But I know that it has never been sold , because I tried to buy it some years ago ,

That only means that you did not buy it... and you may not know who owns it... 

 

but, either way, if it is not yours, you are the one trespassing - no?

[chuang]

You claim it's not neighbor's land..then you can claim it as yours..

[JeffersLos]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:35 AM, nobodysfriend said:

What else can I do ?

 Smile and tell her to be careful of the ghosts, as you have seen and heard many over the years of walking there. 

[taotoo]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

They fear legal action against them as they know that they are doing something illegal .

Good for me .

So what they need now is for you to go away, in one form or other.

[arick]

She proably gained access to the land my helping a provincial government official  to launder money back into the Country they have given her the land of the dead old ill x owner. You can check if she has a profession or a bank loan of 5 million  for starting to  build on the land.  If she doesn't then you know the above. My God what what District and Province do you live why Thais tell farang not to walk with their dogs  where do you live Why  you would want to walk your dogs.?  Mine just stays in the yard. Have you considering taking the dogs for a ride in your Truck or on your motorbike just around the village mine love it. 

[arick]

Just hope she isn't making a pig farm! 

[Delight]

 For Certain the Land does not belong to the OP.

Suspect that the act of walking a dog on land that does not belong to the OP is technically illegal.

If a 3rd party appears to be 'stealing 'the use of the land-is a problem for somebody else.

Not an issue for the OP.

My advise

a) Keep off the land

or

b) Find the legal owner and do a deal.

This may mean purchasing(for a small fee) the right to cross the land -for dog walking purposes only .This deal to be renewed annually.

Legally speaking this deal would be a 'gentleman's agreement.

[nobodysfriend]

What happened really is that the owner died quite a long time ago , nobody did ever show up or took care of the land . The Neighbor decided to ' jump on the occasion' and take over ... That's why she had the trees cut to make a soi .

The Kamnan told me they are in the process of buying it , but the names have not officially changed yet ... ?

Believe it or not , I do not because the owner died and no heirs are known ... so from whom do they buy it ...?

They will occupy it for ten years , do a little work etc , and then claim it as theirs .

It is a nice piece of about 35 rai , ( I remeasured it by google earth ) and worth quite a lot I think ... I let them do it , I do not want to create trouble , I just want to walk there .

I got a lever now , if they want to make problems for me , I'll make problems for them , too . A few years ago , the said neighbor came up to me and asked me to help her please as she was losing a 12 rai plot ( nor sor 3 kor ) to the bank .

I helped her and bought this 12 rai plot for a good price , she thanked me a lot for this .

I have a good reputation her on Koh Kho Khao island , I helped a lot of people by giving jobs ( and income ) to them , but , from the beginning , I made it clear that I would not do anything illegal , or buy land without good papers ( Chanote or nor sor 3 kor ) . We had our dog poisoned just after arriving here , they did that without reason , just to teach the farang a ' lesson ' .

Originally on this island there were only 2 family names , that is why all the women are ugly here , and many are mentally disturbed it seems . 555

But the island is still beautiful and not densely populated .

After our dog died ( in my arms ) I decided to do something for the suffering creatures and adopted a lot ...

Now we take care for 18 dogs in 2 different properties here , and we help feed and neutralize the rest of the many strays left on the island . Our dogs , at least the ones who stay with us are not aggressive , they bite nobody , just ignore strangers .

[itsari]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:11 AM, Bundooman said:

You are absolutely right.

You are, by choice (and by your own definition), "a Second class citizen in a third world corrupt country ..."

You seem to be forgetting that.

Others are giving you advice, but you don't appear to like that advice.

They are right. It is none of your concern, as long as it doesn't affect you or your family, or your property.

It's the same in any country. Particularly '1st world countries'.

It is a concern for him as it is his neighbouring  property . What damage has he done by walking on the property ?  None i am sure . 

I am also quite sure the person trying it on has the knowledge that he wanted to buy the property .

Hope he is not intimidated by these people . Or the village head 

[sead]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:44 AM, phetphet said:

Maybe she is thinking that she can gain ownership by right of possession of unclaimed land by occupying it for a period of time.

 

Exactly my thoughts. So try to find the relatives of the deceised

[connda]

Is your land land-locked by other land, i.e., Is it the only way to get to your land? 
If so, you have a legal right to cross, although you'll now probably need to hammer it out in court.
If not, then why are you trespassing on your neighbors land, and no less, getting angry because because they don't want you to?

By the way.  Calling your neighbor a thief is defamation if they have legal title to that land.  You may be best to tread lightly and not make those allegation outside this forum.  Just saying...

[connda]

3 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Lucky it worked out that way. Now that you've established that, don't do anything but walk your dogs there as otherwise it could end very unhappily for you...

Now that you've made a problem for them hopefully you and your dogs don't suddenly disappear.  Making enemies?  Hummm ????

[khunPer]

On 6/12/2021 at 2:35 AM, nobodysfriend said:

I will go and check the legal title with the local land office , but I know already that is is not the one who takes it now , who is registered as the owner .

What else can I do ?

It's depending of the title deed.

 

If it's land with a low title on the deed that has not been used for some time, another person can claim it by starting to use it. Use might be cutting grass and trees, or making a fence around the land, to show that it's in use. For low title deed the times is three years only (by memory, if it served me right) before someone else can claim unused land.

 

If it's a high title land deed, like Chanote (aka Nor Sor 4) the time a squatter is able to claim unused land is 10 years.

 

You might be more information in the Law text, which is in English HERE.

[Tony125]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:59 AM, nobodysfriend said:

I was just used to cross this land for 5 yrs already , until a  ' thief ' tells me that she does not want me to do this anymore .

But as you said you may have been crossing this land for 5 years but have no  legal right then or now to cross it as it's not your land no matter who owns it.

[nobodysfriend]

9 minutes ago, connda said:

Now that you've made a problem for them hopefully you and your dogs don't suddenly disappear.  Making enemies?  Hummm ????

I do not make a problem for them .

I just want to continue to pass over there , as I have done for the last 5 yrs .

They tried to block my way first , but now let me pass as usual . Just a little pressure sometimes helps ...

I am not the only one to know what happens ... every native knows .

[Nanaplaza666]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:48 AM, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , I have probably no legal right to even cross this property as it does not belong to me .

But , at least , I do not cut the trees . The neighbor who takes it now , does a lot of damage and does not have the right to do this either .

I have been crossing this property for 5 yrs now . Nobody ever was there to complain about this . Until now .

And you also havn't complained about it untill now , so i geuss better let it go and mind your own business . Or is there a little pain in the behind because you wanted to buy it and couldn't and now someone else is just taking it ( or maybe even legaly owning it without you knowing) ?? Just take your dog to wqlk somewhere else where you don't need to cross it or is your own million rai not enough ? 

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

But as you said you may have been crossing this land for 5 years but have no  legal right then or now to cross it as it's not your land no matter who owns it.

I do not know where you are living , in a city I guess ...

Here everybody goes everywhere if the land is not fenced in . Mushroom season ... They come with truckloads from the mainland and pick up everything everywhere they can go , just as the locals do . They go to the forest that officially belongs to the government and cut the big trees for the money . Only one policeman is sometimes on the island who does what he gets paid for ... ( by whoever pays him ) ...

But they all are afraid of the law ( and it's enforcement ) as they all got something to hide I guess .

But today the thai government has a lot of specialized hotlines to report something ...

I want to live in peace , I won't do that .

I just wanted to be able to continue my daily walk as I was used to .

I can do that now .

[CH1961]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:57 AM, nobodysfriend said:

Second class citizens in a third world corrupt country

Why are you still here? 

[nobodysfriend]

4 minutes ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

Or is there a little pain in the behind because you wanted to buy it and couldn't and now someone else is just taking it

No , I am not hungry anymore .

 

5 minutes ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

or is your own million rai not enough ? 

I do not have a million rai .

I learned that time is precious . If someone owns too much , he has to spend too much of his time for looking after ...

In the end the one who has time is richer ... time is a limited good . Just a few yrs left that I want to spend in peace and do something good for nature . I was poor , then I became rich for a while , but when I was poor , I was more happy in life ... but that was , may be , because I was a lot younger ?

[rumak]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:11 AM, Bundooman said:

You are absolutely right.

You are, by choice (and by your own definition), "a Second class citizen in a third world corrupt country ..."

You seem to be forgetting that.

Others are giving you advice, but you don't appear to like that advice.

They are right. It is none of your concern, as long as it doesn't affect you or your family, or your property.

It's the same in any country. Particularly '1st world countries'.

 

my first property here had no fence.    each succeeding property the fence got erected quicker.......... and more substantial.      that be the way it is  ????

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

my first property here had no fence.    each succeeding property the fence got erected quicker.......... and more substantial.      that be the way it is  ????

The good old times ... are gone by now , it seems ...

Today it is only money that counts ... sad .

[nobodysfriend]

50 minutes ago, connda said:

Now that you've made a problem for them hopefully you and your dogs don't suddenly disappear.  Making enemies?  Hummm ????

What about Frank Herbert ?