2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Baiting post ignored.

You're married to your narrative. Nothing productive can come from further engagement. 

Not necessarily a baiting post.

Many people clearly think they understand the efficacy/efficiency numbers when clearly they do not understand.

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

Same same...I would take any vaccine, but none is on the horizon. I was scheduled to get a Sinovac jab 1st this month, no vaccines available. Registered again, dead silence so far.

Yes.  The situation for many of us seeking vaccines is atrocious.

5 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

The same issue applies to his claim. We know that those 350 doctors got exposed and infected, but we don't know how many other vaccinated doctors got exposed and not infected because that info is not offered anywhere in the post nor in the article.

 

So saying that 350 doctors got infected without offering any data about that control group is even more pointless than the calculation I did. 

 

Also you should note that I never mentioned that the vaccine affords 99.8% protection against covid, I only said that only 0.2% of vaccinated doctors had gotten infected, to prove the point that 350 is a negligible number, not to prove that the effectiveness of the vaccine is 99.8% for god's sake.

The thing is that 350 number is only for the 5000 doctors and medical workers in Kudus. 

"More than 350 doctors and medical workers have caught COVID-19 in Indonesia despite being vaccinated with Sinovac and dozens have been hospitalised, officials said, as concerns grow about the efficacy of some vaccines against more infectious variants.

Most of the workers were asymptomatic and self-isolating at home, said Badai Ismoyo, head of the health office in the district of Kudus in central Java, but dozens were in hospital with high fevers and falling oxygen-saturation levels.

Kudus, which has about 5,000 healthcare workers, is battling an outbreak believed to be driven by the more transmissible Delta variant, which has raised its bed occupancy rates above 90%."

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-indonesian-doctors-contract-covid-19-despite-vaccination-dozens-2021-06-17/

Of course, "dozens" is very imprecise. It could be 24 or it could be 96. Presumably if the number hit 100 or higher the total wouldn't be described in terms of "dozens."

On the other hand, doctors and medical workers obviously face repeated exposures to the virus, so their immune system faces more challenges than do most, if not all,  others.

Waiting for now.  Will fly if necessary.

7 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

This type of thing drives me mad

 

the best vaccine is the one available to you. The promise of vaccine maybe/hopefully in the future is just snake oil.

 

do you understand the efficacy figures? All vaccines are about 98% at preventing hospitalization and death, even Sinovac  

Not so.

Two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab prevent 96 percent of hospitalisations due to the Delta variant, while the AstraZeneca vaccine prevents 92 percent, according to a study involving 14,000 people.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/16/how-covid-vaccines-work-against-delta-variant

 

Given that sinovac and sinopharm are somewhat less effective, although still very potent, against hospitalizations and death in the cases of other variants of covid-19, most likely they are somewhat less effective in this case as well. Still, it makes overwhelming sense to take whatever vaccine you can. Current research show that mixing vaccines at least some vaccines is most likely even more effective than taking just one kind.

5 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Following your logic, there are 7.9 Billion people on this planet, and 178 million unvaccinated of them got infected ( take note I said infected not died), so that is a whopping 2.25% of the world population that got INFECTED.

 

Let's mass vaccinate, NOT?

What you don't seem to understand is that whatever the cumulative total is, it's going to get larger. The pandemic is still ongoing.

7 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

that article actually proved Sinovac Is even more effective than was thought

 

350 medical staff out of 40,000 got COVID and dozens were hospitalized means the vaccine is 99.91% effective 

look at the figures behind the headlines 

 

6 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

this is the point, this is why we are totally screwed. 
 

It’s like talking to kids who can’t do basic math 

It's best to be really sure you grasp a concept before accusing others of not understanding it. Efficacy and effectiveness don't mean what you think they do.

But even if they did, just because, say at the current moment x numbers of people are or have been infected and, in some cases hospitalized,, doesn't mean that more in the future won't be.

And as I noted before, the total of medical personnel in the Kudus area is 5000, not 40000

I've been offered the Sinopharm vaccine privately and my employer is bankrolling that for a number of our key staff. Should happen in the next few weeks. The reason being our northern project need to ROLL and roll soon, and it will be completely impractical for us to quarantine as we move between provinces (Bangkok - CR) and work along the borders. I obviously wanted Moderna or Pfizer but being pragmatic any of the vaccines will keep me out of hospital and with that in mind I'll take what I can get. It doesn't seem like a very effective risk management strategy to turn your nose up at a vaccine and choose to leave yourself with no protection while you wait for maybes...

 

That's worth repeating... Any of the vaccines will keep up you out of hospital (i.e. highly effective at preventing serious illness)... That's all you need to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Considering what I see right now in Europe especially in Germany I think I will wait. Here is why:

1. Seeing what happens when a lot of people get vaccinated in a country should lead to a lower daily increase in covid case numbers in July or August hopefully, IF the government can make it happen to vaccinate 300-400k people per day (yes I hope they increase and I am more positive on that than others in Social Medias) . Meaning if everyone around you get vaccinated you will most probably also benefit from it due to lower case numbers. July will be still interesting to see how bad Bangkok will become, but August could be the positive turning point.
 

2. As a person under 60 years old my risks to get a bad covid infection with hospitalisation are okay. Astra is not given to people under 60 in Germany anymore so I stick to that recommendation and don't take it. I know the risks are low.  I know England is handling it differently.

 

3. Flying to Europe to get mRNA vaccinated is a great possibility for August when hopefully we don't have that much quarantine rules anymore in Thailand when we come back. This is my Plan B if I see that Thailand doesn't get it till December..  a lot of my friends returning right now to e.g. Germany getting vaccinated within 1 week of return. This will just become the new normal as Europe is progressing and not everyone wants a jab. So I speculate that in 1-2 months you get easy a jab in Europe as they become available at your normal doc. This is speculation, but I see it more and more possible.

 

4. Astra is okay. The Chinese one is total <deleted> and the own new developed mRNA jab from Thailand is a total gamble and not tested yet at all. So you can only take Astra which leads you to 12 weeks between 2 jabs. Sounds crazy but I have friends in Germany that got their first JAB later (Moderna) but their second jab before people getting their second Astra shot. As Moderna/Pfizer have only 21-28 days between. Getting your Astra shot in July could be as good as getting your first mRNA shot in September...

 

5. I am also speculating that more and more countries will donate vaccines to Asian countries as they not needed anymore in Europe as no one takes them anymore. Yes this will not be today but this could happen in August. Also from the USA.  This is pure speculation ???? But e.g. Europe didn't order Astra again so maybe we get more from it to Thailand which would speed up the mass vaccination by people who take it (most Thais will take Astra)

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

12 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

What do you mean by “better jab?”

 

 

One from Sugar Ray Leonard rather than from one of the current crop?

Take what you can get then top up with Moderna or Pfizer at a later date. I was lucky I have had my first Astrazenica injection. I will after my second wait a month at least then have a third injection of a different brand.. The worry now is the African Variant now rife in Yala it seems it can evade Astrazenica to a degree and Sinovac is has very low effacy against it.. 

Chiang Mai Ram hospital expects the vaccine in October that’s a long way if I was offered the other vaccine I would definitely take it and then in October I would make an appointment at Chiang Mai Ram hospital and get the other vaccines TIT

14 hours ago, Thomas J said:

At present obviously there is none of the MRNA vaccines from Pfizer or Moderna available in Thailand but supposedly they are on order and again supposedly the private hospitals will be able to acquire them.  Will you wait it out to get one of those or take what is available as soon as you can get it.  We are waiting it out.  I might be tempted to take the Astra Zeneca but I don't want the Sinovac.  If I am going to take my chances getting a jab I want something with the higher effective rates.  Also Sinovac is not as widely recognized.  If I travel I don't want to be denied or require yet another inoculation because the country I wish to travel to doesn't accept 

Sinovac has been approved by the WHO on June 1. This means, that countries will accept this vaccine.

Will wait.

Moderna for me.

35 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Chiang Mai Ram hospital expects the vaccine in October that’s a long way if I was offered the other vaccine I would definitely take it and then in October I would make an appointment at Chiang Mai Ram hospital and get the other vaccines TIT

 

With all the new variants, October is growing farther and farther away.

 

I will take any vaccine now since they are all safe. Them I will take second vaccine moderna or pfifzer. 

Perhaps those 350 Doctors got Covid-19 Disease from contaminated vaccine...? 

13 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

What do you mean by “better jab?”

 

 

It's his opinion, just as you have yours. Let it be, and don't let such things drive you mad; that's a recipe for an early grave.

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

The thing is that 350 number is only for the 5000 doctors and medical workers in Kudus. 

"More than 350 doctors and medical workers have caught COVID-19 in Indonesia despite being vaccinated with Sinovac and dozens have been hospitalised, officials said, as concerns grow about the efficacy of some vaccines against more infectious variants.

Most of the workers were asymptomatic and self-isolating at home, said Badai Ismoyo, head of the health office in the district of Kudus in central Java, but dozens were in hospital with high fevers and falling oxygen-saturation levels.

Kudus, which has about 5,000 healthcare workers, is battling an outbreak believed to be driven by the more transmissible Delta variant, which has raised its bed occupancy rates above 90%."

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-indonesian-doctors-contract-covid-19-despite-vaccination-dozens-2021-06-17/

Of course, "dozens" is very imprecise. It could be 24 or it could be 96. Presumably if the number hit 100 or higher the total wouldn't be described in terms of "dozens."

On the other hand, doctors and medical workers obviously face repeated exposures to the virus, so their immune system faces more challenges than do most, if not all,  others.

 

Thanks. I didn't see the 5000 number but knew it was centered in Kudus. 

 

We still can't calculate effectiveness without a control group because we have no idea how many unvaccinated healthcare workers would get COVID. If it was an equal number, 350, then the vaccine has zero effectiveness. If 1000, then the effectiveness would only be 65%.

 

It is highly unlikely all 5000 in a control group could get infected because medical staff use heavy protection and not all staff are exposed to COVID. So what ever the number, Sinovac isn't very effective against the delta strain, and less so against the coming South African (beta) strain now heading to Phuket!

 

You would have to be a Complete Fool to take Sinovac , Costa Rica just said NO to that garbage , it’s not working , 350 medical doctors just were infected with Covid after vaccination in Indonesia , look at Seychelles I won’t let my gf get it Il pay and you should…Also 

6 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

It's his opinion, just as you have yours. Let it be, and don't let such things drive you mad; that's a recipe for an early grave.

It means don’t get Chinese or Russian , it’s not  that difficult unless. Your trolling 

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.  The situation for many of us seeking vaccines is atrocious.

I just went back to San Francisco to get it not playing Thai games , sticker shock on food prices and delivery, Enjoy Thailand Cheaper 

Johnson & Johnson for me when it becomes available , one shot and done with , surprised no one else seems to be mentioning that one.

4 minutes ago, Ireland32 said:

It means don’t get Chinese or Russian , it’s not  that difficult unless. Your trolling 

FYI, I'm waiting for Moderna and won't take the Chinese or Russian junk even if it means I self-quarantine until next year.

That wasn't my point.

Everybody has an opinion, but the poster I replied to thinks his is superior and the only correct one. Besides that he's worked himself up about others having different opinions. That was my point, trolling or not. Take it as you will.

I will do both.

16 hours ago, Thomas J said:

snip...Sinovac is not as widely recognized.  If I travel I don't want to be denied or require yet another inoculation because the country I wish to travel to doesn't accept 

That is definitely the main point to consider for frequent flyers.

66 with 3 of the big 7.

 

As my province seems to have completely opted out of any plan, I have no choice but to wait.

 

My preference at the moment is 'any one', but none are forthcoming and this is unlikely to change with the Bangkok problem, which I fear will grow.

 

My overall preference is Pfizer as my twin back in the UK had his ages ago and is fine.

 

One thing i'd not want to do to get a jab right now is to have to go to Bangkok dark red zone to get it. I feel safer here in the sticks and feel it would be tempting fate to go to Bangkok anytime soon. Twice.

 

 

I will wait until the proper research and testing has been done before allowing any poison in my body, so maybe about 10 years or so.

    My partner has gotten 2 jabs of Sinovac; I get my second jab of it July 5.  It was not our first choice by any means but we figured something is better than nothing.  I was suppose to get AZ but they ran out of it.  Our strategy is to see if we can get a booster of something better in 3 to 5 months or so.  We are happy to pay to get something better down the road when better vaccines will, hopefully, be available.