New inverter a/c daikin not very cool...I'm baffled

[BKKBike09]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

good to know as if I want to switch I should probably do so soon.

 

In general I have a bad impression of Haier brand anything. Can otheres suggest other inverter brands (non-Daikin) that really get things cold? I will try with the Daikin company tomorrow but that's 2 people now reporting same experience...

 

 

My house has all Daikin. Most are 10+ years old and work very well, meaning quick cooling and reliable operation. They're all FTE models. However the main bedroom one (18000 BTU) began to play up and so changed it to another Daikin about 2 years ago. This unit (18000 BTU FTM model) has never been able to get the room as cool, as quickly as the one it replaced. Nothing that's been done to it makes any difference. It's not an inverter model. 

 

I have used Carrier and Central Air in another property and no problems with them.

 

It's worth noting that old AC's will usually use R22 coolant (Freon) that's now banned in many countries. Don't know about Thailand. Newer models can be R32, 407, 438 etc etc. Using the right coolant is really important.

 

All I can say is that my old R22 Daikin's cool very effectively, while the newer one that uses R32 doesn't. But again - could just be a lemon.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

44 minutes ago, Dan O said:

I don't think you do understand how they work. Yes they will run at 100 % but most all brands do not on start up, they cycle up to full compression over a short period and then depending on demand adjust to accommodate the need. Each mfr has there own sequence of operation but they are all basically the same.

Sure they have soft start. Your initial explanation of the initial cooling process is flawed and incorrect "Inverters function in a way that the temp output varies thru out the cycle of reaching the desired temp which is more economical  but much slower to reach desired temp" that states that the output is constantly varied before reaching near the set point.

 

that is either a Faulty AC or faulty description of how they function.

My inverters take about the same time to reach the set point, though the last degree or two may be a little longer, as my non inverters do. The difference in time to reach the desired temperature, if any, is a couple of minutes.

 

So if your inverter ACs are functioning the way you state then they are either badly designed, faulty or drastically undersized

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

This is incorrect information, the insulation or lack of it is irrelevant between an inverter and a non inverter.
 

The time when you will not save is if you replace an undersized non inverter with an undersized inverter. 

If that’s the way your inverter AC functions it is not normal. Our Mitsubishi inverters run at full speed until they get to, or almost to, the set point then slow down. 

Well that's not what experienced American air-con engineers say.

 

Yeah I noticed my inverter slowing quicker when I insulated the room more it was on for much longer before. 

 

Had the inverter given to me thats why I have it, I wouldn't have bought one myself for my farmhouse room on the information I was given. 

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Sure they have soft start. Your initial explanation of the initial cooling process is flawed and incorrect "Inverters function in a way that the temp output varies thru out the cycle of reaching the desired temp which is more economical  but much slower to reach desired temp" that states that the output is constantly varied before reaching near the set point.

 

that is either a Faulty AC or faulty description of how they function.

My inverters take about the same time to reach the set point, though the last degree or two may be a little longer, as my non inverters do. The difference in time to reach the desired temperature, if any, is a couple of minutes.

 

So if your inverter ACs are functioning the way you state then they are either badly designed, faulty or drastically undersized

You explained how your ac units work in exactly the way I described them working so I am a little confused by your continued argument that my explanation is wrong.   I'm done with discussing this with you as it's just a circular argument your making and is not helping to solve Sheryl's issue.   Have a great day 

[Mickeymaus]

I have old Daikins. If you press the Cancel button for about 15 seconds you will hear a short beep and it will show the error codes on the remote control display - where you have normally the temperature. If you press the cancel button again and again you will cycle through all error codes. If you have a code where you get a LONG beep this is the error. You have to Google for the meaning of this code. After a certain time the remote control will switch automatically to the normal display again. You can do all this when the aircon is off. If you switch off the main power the error codes will be cleared. 

 

This is for my old Daikins. Not sure how it is at your new model. But I guess there will be a way to display error codes too. 

 

One last hint. Often this works only with the original remote control and not with a not Daikin replacement. 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mickeymaus

[mokwit]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Not using dry mode. I do know the difference.

 

I already called the "chang" who installed it back once to re-install/top off the gas. Didn't seem to make a difference.

 

From what you all say then, this is not usual.  There is some cooling, but nowhere near what I expect.

 

I guess next step is to call the company. How does one locate and call a "Daikin engineer"?  The main company office?

 

All I can think of is that something is wrong with the temperature sensor. The larger unit was on sale at a surprisingly low discount, which adds some worry as to the model maybe having some problem.

https://mydaikin.daikin.co.th/request/service/product/en

[Yellowtail]

Sheryl, as others have said, the units are not working correctly. You should be able to set the mode and fan to auto, set the temperature you want, and they should cool the room down quickly and slow down once it gets close to the temperature selected. 

 

You should love these units.

 

Start on the Daikin-Thailand website and contact them directly to have them verify your equipment is installed correctly and to get it working properly. 

 

They should have authorized warranty service providers in both Prachinburi and Kabinburi, you do not need to be in a big city, but you do need to go through the main call center.

 

 

[Sheryl]

32 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Sheryl, as others have said, the units are not working correctly. You should be able to set the mode and fan to auto, set the temperature you want, and they should cool the room down quickly and slow down once it gets close to the temperature selected. 

 

You should love these units.

 

Start on the Daikin-Thailand website and contact them directly to have them verify your equipment is installed correctly and to get it working properly. 

 

They should have authorized warranty service providers in both Prachinburi and Kabinburi, you do not need to be in a big city, but you do need to go through the main call center.

 

 

Working on it (hard to get through and when i did, b=no English spoken...will try again).

 

According ot their website they do not have a servcie provider in either Prachinburi or Kabinburi. They have 1 auhorized dealer in Prachinburi who is not a service provider and Kabinburi seems the same.

[Sheryl]

OK, got through finally. They took the info and will call back with an appointment.

 

BTW according to my housekeeper the coolant used seemed to the ordinary  type, nothing special.  So maybe this is the issue?

[Sheryl]

Update: got hold of the "chang" who did the installation and he specifcally says he did use R32 coolant so apparently not that. he also says "inverter units are like this, they do nto get very cold".

 

Anyway will see what the engineers say.

 

I may give up and switch to non-inverter units. No point in having a/c that does nto cool the place adequately.

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OK, got through finally. They took the info and will call back with an appointment.

 

BTW according to my housekeeper the coolant used seemed to the ordinary  type, nothing special.  So maybe this is the issue?

 

I believe (but could be wrong) the units ship pre-charged, so unless the condenser is far from the evaporator they should not have to add refrigerant.

 

R-32 is pretty common now and has been widely used for years. Also, I think the connections are different. The installers would have to be pretty incompetent to use the wrong refrigerant, but i guess I would not be surprised if they did. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Update: got hold of the "chang" who did the installation and he specifcally says he did use R32 coolant so apparently not that. he also says "inverter units are like this, they do nto get very cold".

 

Anyway will see what the engineers say.

 

I may give up and switch to non-inverter units. No point in having a/c that does nto cool the place adequately.

 

Do not give up. Once you get this sorted you will be delighted with them. I don't have Daikins, but the last three units I replaced, I replaced with inverters and I love them. And I like it cool....

[chickenslegs]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Update: got hold of the "chang" who did the installation and he specifcally says he did use R32 coolant so apparently not that. he also says "inverter units are like this, they do nto get very cold".

He's lying.

Well, you knew that already.

[stubuzz]

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I believe (but could be wrong) the units ship pre-charged, so unless the condenser is far from the evaporator they should not have to add refrigerant.

Correct.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, Sophon said:

 

So, the A/C is still not cooling effectively when you press the "powerful mode" button?

Correct.

 

At best, after many hours it may reach 25-26C. Never cooler.

[Nojohndoe]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Correct.

 

At best, after many hours it may reach 25-26C. Never cooler.

I have been watching the comments out of interest. I have an LG dual converter unit in a bedroom that seems  very fast at dropping the temp.

What interests me is your comment that the airflow seems to be limited. (On "turbo" or high too? )

I guess there is no chance that the installer has failed to remove packaging items designed for transportation protection? Seems strange that whatever the refrigeration capacity is or is not that both units don't have at least a decent  blower output !

 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Nojohndoe said:

I have been watching the comments out of interest. I have an LG dual converter unit in a bedroom that seems  very fast at dropping the temp.

What interests me is your comment that the airflow seems to be limited. (On "turbo" or high too? )

I guess there is no chance that the installer has failed to remove packaging items designed for transportation protection? Seems strange that whatever the refrigeration capacity is or is not that both units don't have at least a decent  blower output !

 

Air flows, but to me, not at all strong flow. Even on max setting.

 

Waiting for service visit.

 

 

[Sheryl]

They are coming on the 29th. Couldn't get anything earlier. (which is in  itself worrisome...don't like to think that if they conk out completely during a heat wave it'll take 5 days to get them servcied).

 

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They are coming on the 29th. Couldn't get anything earlier. (which is in  itself worrisome...don't like to think that if they conk out completely during a heat wave it'll take 5 days to get them servcied).

 

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

If you do return, you can't go wrong with Japan electronics, i always buy Japanese whenever possible

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

The "chang"  who did the installation claimed that it would not work well set below 21-22, anyone have any insight into why that would be so? (not that he is a reliable source of any info). Because it is not getting the air as cold as I want it I have it on maximum (that little "powerful" icon). Hard tio imagine that a higher temp setting would cool better...?

 

I've heard this, too. Could not really nail an exact technical reason down except for the 11C temp drop from the notes below.

 

I checked a number of a/c operation sites. Every one recommends settings of 22-24C. One in particular notes that a/c units are usually factory set up to drop the inside temp up to 11 Celsius degrees below the outdoor temp. But can't do much to take the temp below about 22, apparently. Here are three links:

 

The 11C rule

 

https://fordanddoonan.com.au/the-best-way-to-run-your-air-conditioner-in-summer/

 

Here's a site with much general info:

 

https://www.colonyac.com/webapp/p/587/top-14-things-you-should-know-about-your-ac

 

Last: Nearly every hotel room I've ever entered, the a/c remote is set for 18C. I always pump it up to 25 or 26. Always seems to cool the room efficiently. At home, mine is set for around 26-27, depending on outside heat sources. 

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They are coming on the 29th. Couldn't get anything earlier. (which is in  itself worrisome...don't like to think that if they conk out completely during a heat wave it'll take 5 days to get them servcied).

 

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

 

I am a big fan of Carrier, but I think you need to get what you have straightened out. Daikin is a well respected brand that carries a premium, they should get you squared away.  

 

I am also a fan of the cassette type ceiling units if you do end up replacing them....

[bankruatsteve]

41 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

My suggestion is to set it on auto cool (auto fan) and let it do what it can until the techs come.  Daikin has one of the best reputations. You should at least give them a chance. 

[Outbackoz]

I have moved to invertor technology for our a/c units a couple of years ago and certainly there is a minor difference in "pull down" time for temperature  but have found no real issues in maintaining  lower room temperatures. If the refrigerant type/amount is correct  and the compressor/condenser unit correctly matched is there a possibility that it has been incorrectly wired or a poor electrical bond?   Crossy may elaborate further as he may have some further thoughts

[Dan O]

19 hours ago, impulse said:

Put a thermometer on the outlet air and note the change in temperature between the inlet and the outlet.  There's a specification.  (someone else will have to chime in with the spec for an inverter wall unit...  Stuck in Texas, we're all on central air- yuck.)

 

An undersized unit will blow less air, but the DeltaT from inlet to outlet should still hold up.  It just takes longer to circulate enough of the cooler air.

 

Being a new install, I suspect the refrigerant is low.

Typically if the refrigerant is low the unit will ice up. If it's overcharged the unit won't cool as the refrigerant can't convert the liquid refrigerant to a gas and then back again which is how it cools. I would suspect that's the case unless there's a leak in the refrig lines or dirt int the lines.  It's just really odd that 2 units are acting the same way

[Sophon]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

If you do return, you can't go wrong with Japan electronics, i always buy Japanese whenever possible

 

Daikin is Japanese.

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, Sophon said:

 

Daikin is Japanese.

OMG then unlikely to be them at fault

[BritManToo]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

From what you all say then, this is not usual.  There is some cooling, but nowhere near what I expect.

My Haier inverter is also not as cool as the previous Samsung non.

The fitter said the inverters take much longer to reduce the temperatures (in his experience).

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

OK, got through finally. They took the info and will call back with an appointment.

 

BTW according to my housekeeper the coolant used seemed to the ordinary  type, nothing special.  So maybe this is the issue?

There is no added coolant to new units, the units have the coolant already in them.

All the installer does is suck the air out of the pipes, before releasing the coolant from the unit into the pipes.

Edited June 24, 2021 by BritManToo

[Cake Monster]

I would contact " Daikin " at their main office, preferably by telephone, and get the persons name that you speak to.

They are presumably in BKK

Let them know ( politely ) how very unhappy you are with your purchase, and that you have used their product for many Years with no previous issues.

Tell them who the installer was, as they may not be an Authorized Dealer / Installer.

If " Daikin " are anything of a decent Company, they will get this sorted for you ASAP, as they do not want disgruntled customers.

Good luck

[Dan O]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Update: got hold of the "chang" who did the installation and he specifcally says he did use R32 coolant so apparently not that. he also says "inverter units are like this, they do nto get very cold".

 

Anyway will see what the engineers say.

 

I may give up and switch to non-inverter units. No point in having a/c that does nto cool the place adequately.

I would not give up as this brand has a very good reputation but it may be hard to believe right now.

 

I hope that different techs are coming and would insist on it as fresh eyes may spot the issue or any oddity about install or refrig  charging.

 

I have to believe that it's an install error on wiring or charging. It is very odd that 2 units of different models have the exact same problem. If they were the same model you could say bad batch of units but 2 different models is highly unlikely.

 

You have the warranty option available obviously but I would also notify the vendor outlet were you got them of the problems and put them on notice that you will return them for refund if they cN not be correctly serviced. You may have already done that though.

 

Keep all your info and correspondence for future reference should the units present more problem later in the life cycle. Not saying you would need it but always good to have your ammunition should you need it. 

 

Really sorry this happened to you and hope for a quick fix once the techs come out.