Thai study finds 2 doses of Sinovac can’t beat Delta variant, AstraZeneca can

[swm59nj]

20 hours ago, thaitom said:

Can I take the booster shot of Astrazeneca right away ? I ask because I take my 2nd dose of Sinovac on Tuesday

I had two doses of Sinovac against my better judgement. I could have had Astra Zeneca. But I was told at the hospital I could not get my second dose for three to four months later.  Which seemed too long. So now Im hoping for a booster of Moderna or something like it.

Anyway to your question. I was told by two of my doctors that if a person gets fully vaccinated. For example with Sinovac like I have. My last jab was July 3. The person should wait at least three months before getting a booster dose. 

[Tony125]

 

Delta variant is 'Covid-19 on steroids,' expert says, with cases increasing in nearly half of US states

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/delta-variant-is-covid-19-on-steroids-expert-says-with-cases-increasing-in-nearly-half-of-us-states/ar-AALUiyW

[metisdead]

A conspiracy scam troll post has been removed. 

 

A post with a link to an unapproved social media source has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, misterjames said:

This is what I have been saying for a long time but the pro Sinovac posters on here, just continually avoid the Delta part and post endless links to so called "legit" Alpha variant "studies".

 

 

If any variant, past, present and future of the coronavirus doesn't know when there's a curfew or can't tell who's vaccinated or otherwise or can't tell the age or gender of whoever has inhaled them, then this alleged +/-8% difference in any vaccine efficacy is fundamentally irrelevant. Eight percent of what exactly?

 

People are getting sucked into these thinly disguised vaccine nationalism and vaccine politics debates masquerading as science. I guess that's what happens when there's not enough vaccines of any sort available and the stressed out and unvaccinated have nothing better to do than wade through tomes of dross on the internet, clutching at straws and creating their own, totally groundless pearls of wisdom.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

5 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

well i had mine 5 weeks ago ,still 16 weeks according to my mor phrom app . although my sister in law in BKK has just got a message putting it down to 12 weeks

Maybe I got it wrong.

Is it 8 weeks for the AZ vaccine. Or am I getting Old.

Maybe 6 weeks ago there was the announcement that the 16 week shot gap would be the new procedure but shortly afterwards, some health official said that it would revert to the manufacturer;s recommended 12 week shot gap.

 

Government issued apps not keeping up with the dynamics of the pandemic is one of those 'known knowns'.

 

The original spec ahead of it being rolled out last year was 8 weeks but when demand looked like outstripping supply, the manufacturer's themselves said that 12 weeks would work OK and government's (mostly) went along with this.

[ThailandRyan]

Here is a very interesting  story

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/lead-sinovac-vaccine-scientist-indonesia-dies-suspected-covid-19-media-say-2021-07-07/&ved=2ahUKEwid2Lu8ltjxAhUvzDgGHRYmAPQQFjALegQIFBAC&usg=AOvVaw2KRiEMlfxk6hQx0q3O3diV

[mtls2005]

Study du jour.  The Super Poll of "Studies".

 

 

 

Meant to support the "let's give everyone two doses of sinovac, oops, and a dose of AZ" plan.

 

At this rate, we'll be up to "let's give everyone one of each vaccine" soon.

 

J 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

 

5 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

well i had mine 5 weeks ago ,still 16 weeks according to my mor phrom app . although my sister in law in BKK has just got a message putting it down to 12 weeks

Maybe I got it wrong.

Is it 8 weeks for the AZ vaccine. Or am I getting Old.

 

Thailand initially set a date for the follow up 2nd Jab at 16 weeks after the 1st Jab.

 

This was based on that attempt to get as many people vaccinated with at least one dose of AZ. 
 

Meanwhile, the internationally accepted widow was 12 weeks. 
 

A few weeks ago Thailand changed the window to 12 weeks. Appointment dates in the Moh-Prom app were adjusted accordingly (both my Wife’s and mine were). 
 

More recently the MoPH announced they would set the window to 8 weeks. 
 

Nothing on my Moh-Prom app has changed & no more announcement or information regarding 8 weeks seems to have been released. It mat have been another one of ‘those’ announcements! 

[Cake Monster]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thailand initially set a date for the follow up 2nd Jab at 16 weeks after the 1st Jab.

 

This was based on that attempt to get as many people vaccinated with at least one dose of AZ. 
 

Meanwhile, the internationally accepted widow was 12 weeks. 
 

A few weeks ago Thailand changed the window to 12 weeks. Appointment dates in the Moh-Prom app were adjusted accordingly (both my Wife’s and mine were). 
 

More recently the MoPH announced they would set the window to 8 weeks. 
 

Nothing on my Moh-Prom app has changed & no more announcement or information regarding 8 weeks seems to have been released. It mat have been another one of ‘those’ announcements! 

I thought that there was an 8 week window between 1 st and 2 nd dose.

It was something to do with getting more Vaccine into people quicker to stop them getting this stronger Delta Variant

If it was  one of " those announcements " that is what I seem to have picked up on 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Here is a very interesting  story

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/lead-sinovac-vaccine-scientist-indonesia-dies-suspected-covid-19-media-say-2021-07-07/&ved=2ahUKEwid2Lu8ltjxAhUvzDgGHRYmAPQQFjALegQIFBAC&usg=AOvVaw2KRiEMlfxk6hQx0q3O3diV

She should have taken Pfizer, maybe she's still be alive........the deaths keep mounting up with Sinovac

 

China to Get 100 Million Doses of Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine

[kimamey]

In the UK it was 8 weeks for Pfizer which is what my mother had and that was the same for AZ but the government switched to 12 weeks since this gave a slightly lower protection but to more people than with the 8 weeks gap. I had AV with a 12 week gap.  Subsequent research backs this up I think.

12 weeks seems a good idea when trying to get cover to as many as possible. My wife and her daughter plus her sister are all government workers. My wife has had Sinovac with I think an 8 week gap. Her sister has had AV and I think that's 12 weeks but her daughter has had AV but with a longer gap but I'm not sure how long. My wife works in Mahasarakham and the other 2 work in Bangkok. My wife's mother who s 78 is still waiting.

 

Confusing isn't it.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, kimamey said:

In the UK it was 8 weeks for Pfizer which is what my mother had and that was the same for AZ but the government switched to 12 weeks since this gave a slightly lower protection but to more people than with the 8 weeks gap. I had AV with a 12 week gap.  Subsequent research backs this up I think.

12 weeks seems a good idea when trying to get cover to as many as possible. My wife and her daughter plus her sister are all government workers. My wife has had Sinovac with I think an 8 week gap. Her sister has had AV and I think that's 12 weeks but her daughter has had AV but with a longer gap but I'm not sure how long. My wife works in Mahasarakham and the other 2 work in Bangkok. My wife's mother who s 78 is still waiting.

 

Confusing isn't it.

I thought the interval had been shortened due to the advent of the Delta variant.

[from the home of CC]

21 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

So they are still ordering and paying for and injecting stuff that doesn't work. 

 

You can only assume someone is earning greatly out these deal with China

ya know what they say about what happens when you 'assume'. Unless you have some proof....

[richard_smith237]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I got AZ in Thailand then came to the US.  Pharmacies not only were not going to record me as fully vaccinated after a dose of an mRNA, they weren't willing ti give it at all knowing I'd had AZ. I could probably have sorted this out with a lot of time and effort and going to hospitals rather than pharmacies (the pharmacies operate in a pretty "cookbook" manner ad their instructions don't cover this situation) but I opted to just say it was my first dose, keep silent about the prior AZ, get the Pfizer and will go ahead and get a second Pfizer in order to have the CDC certificate. But will stretch out the interval for the 2nd to the max allowable (42 days) since really it will be in effect a booster.

 

 

I’m in a very similar position & made the exact same choice. 
 

Initially not knowing when I’d need to travel I took the AZ vaccine in Thailand in early June. 

I was then called away at the end on June & may miss the AZ second dose.

 

Knowing that countries such as Germany are dual vaxxing already (& their chancellor also dual vaxxed with AZ followed by Pfizer) I decide to take take the Pfizer vaccine. 
 

I will now have to complete a second dose of the Pfizer vaccine to ensure I receive the valid vaccine certifications required for quarantine free travel & also Sandbox arrival in Thailand (if that’s not been canned by the time I return in a couple of months). 
 

 

[mtls2005]

Someone is going to have to make a tough decision...get as many people vaccinated with one dose of AZ this is the current strategy if only because we haven't reached June 7 + 8/12/16 weeks yet - or vaccinate with the second dose and let more people go unprotected. Rubber meets road ~ 1 Sep. Wouldn't want to make that call.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I thought the interval had been shortened due to the advent of the Delta variant.

Advent, oh you meant upon the arrival of the Delta variant they found and its all consuming spread since throughout the globe, I have not actually observed them shortening it yet but keeping it at 12 weeks here in Thailand.  I have heard rumors and witnessed anecdotal evidence of the possibility of 8 weeks between AZ jabs but nothing concrete.  I did try and call MedPark hospital today on the number listed for my 2nd vaccination on the 16th of September to check, but the line went unanswered......

[misterjames]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

People are getting sucked into these thinly disguised vaccine nationalism and vaccine politics debates masquerading as science. I guess that's what happens when there's not enough vaccines of any sort available and the stressed out and unvaccinated have nothing better to do than wade through tomes of dross on the internet, clutching at straws and creating their own, totally groundless pearls of wisdom.

I guess you missed headlines about the Thai doctors complaining that "enough is enough" and demanding mRNA vaccines in preparedness for the DELTA variant? along with the quarter of a million signatures from Thai people demanding mRNA vaccines on change.org? and the 9 million Thai people that have registered for mRNA jabs? at huge personal cost to themselves rather than take the Chinese stuff for free? 

 

This is not about vaccine nationalism, this is about the Thai people making their own science based, well informed decisions based upon studies conducted by their own experts, in preparedness for the inevitable incoming wave of the DELTA variant, they are deciding what they want injected into their OWN bodies, which is their human right.

 

This is not clutching at straws, it is the Thai people deciding what is best for them, to suggest otherwise is to insult the Thai peoples intelligence and comes across as dismissive and patronising.

 

It would seem the Thai people do not trust or want Sinovac and their mistrust is not groundless to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

 

Check the headline of the topic you are commenting on.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by misterjames

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, misterjames said:

I guess you missed the post about the Thai doctors complaining enough is enough and demanding mRNA vaccines in preparedness for the DELTA variant? along with the quarter of a million signatures from Thai people on change.org and the 9 million Thai that have registered for mRNA jabs?

 

This is not about vaccine nationalism, it's about the Thai people making their own well informed decisions based upon the inevitable coming wave of the DELTA variant and deciding what they want injected into their body which is their human right.

 

This is not clutching at straws it is the Thai people deciding what is best for them.

 

It would seem the Thai people do not trust or want Sinovac and their mistrust is not groundless check the headline of the topic you are commenting on.

 

 

Thank you.

My Thai wife was adamant she did not want to take Sinovac but there was nothing else available at the time here in Phuket, that was a few weeks ago. I persuaded her to go ahead as it was better than nothing, that was before the delta variant was so prominent. With hindsight I wish I had told her to wait as AZ was available shortly after. 

 

She now takes the same precautions she would as if she had taken no vaccine and will be paying for a better quality mrna vaccine as soon as available from hospitals.

 

I was fortunate and got the first dose of AZ, just waiting for the second now in Sept.

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a questionable social media source has been removed as well as the replies.

 

Some bickering posts and the replies have been removed. 

[misterjames]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

My Thai wife was adamant she did not want to take Sinovac but there was nothing else available at the time here in Phuket, that was a few weeks ago. I persuaded her to go ahead as it was better than nothing, that was before the delta variant was so prominent. With hindsight I wish I had told her to wait as AZ was available shortly after. 

It's a sad situation, hopefully she can get a booster of AZ it seems like that may be an option but she may need to wait a while before getting it, my Thai lady also refused Sinovac and had her first AZ shot yesterday at her own expense, she and all of her friends as well as most of the Thai people have zero trust in the Chinese stuff from what I'm hearing and seeing.

Edited July 10, 2021 by misterjames

[jcmj]

It’s amazing that the countries that have plenty of the vaccine are having a hard time getting people to get the vaccine while the countries that don’t have enough are fighting for it. I’d say just ship the oversupply to the countries that need it and those who made the choice not to get the shot don’t come complaining when it hits home. You had your chance, now give the rest of the world theirs. 

[newnative]

I was afraid that would be the case with sinovac.  And the dunces keep ordering more of it while dragging their feet for months and months about getting other, better vaccines.  

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

I was afraid that would be the case with sinovac.  And the dunces keep ordering more of it while dragging their feet for months and months about getting other, better vaccines.  

What I just can't understand is why they only ordered 20 million of the pfizer recently, thats far from enough, I know its not getting here till end of the year or early next year but at least order more than 20 million now so there's plenty for next year.

 

After all those who had Sinovac will need boosters, it can't all be done with AZ.

[kimamey]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I thought the interval had been shortened due to the advent of the Delta variant.

In the UK I think that's right. The danger to those who are older and will have had their jabs earlier outweighed the advantage of earlier first jabs for those now getting their first shot who are younger and less likely to be badly affected. It's a fine balance but I can see the thinking behind it.

As for Thailand their rollout doesn't seem to follow the path of those at most danger first and the gaps between first and second jabs looks as if it varies a lot.

[newnative]

25 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What I just can't understand is why they only ordered 20 million of the pfizer recently, thats far from enough, I know its not getting here till end of the year or early next year but at least order more than 20 million now so there's plenty for next year.

 

After all those who had Sinovac will need boosters, it can't all be done with AZ.

Yes, my partner and I are Sinovacers and will need boosters.  

[Nickelbeer]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Wow another Anti-vaxxer, tell us why please, you left out all the details and then just wanted to put your personal feeling out there without explaining why and having a dialogue.

I am NOT an anti-vaxer. I want to be vaccinated with something that WORKS. I get flu shots every year. They WORK. Sinovac might be better than a placebo, but I want Pfizer or Moderna.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

I'm currently in the UK and have had 2 doses of the AZ vaccine, 8 weeks apart. Tested positive for Covid 2 weeks after my 2nd dose. Caught it from my friend who had 2 doses of AZ 12 weeks apart and tested positive a month after his 2nd dose. None of the current vaccines appear to protect against the Indian variant. Most people in the UK are now fully vaccinated and the number of new cases is rising exponentially since the beginning of June when the indian variant took hold.

 

Are the symptoms less severe? Both my friend and I were quite ill and my symptoms were more severe than my daughter and son in laws symptoms who contracted Covid last October. There is no protection against the Indian variant.

You can't generalize based on your experience. Researchers acknowledge that some people will still get ill from any variant, more so in the case of the Delta variant. You just drew a short straw.

[misterjames]

Just now, placeholder said:

Not ineffective. less effective. No one denies that AZ and Biontech, and probably Moderna are less effective. But once again, there's a huge difference between "less effective" and "ineffective".

Omg I just liked and agreed with 2 of your posts placeholder? what is happening here?:D

[placeholder]

Just now, misterjames said:

Omg I just liked and agreed with 2 of your posts placeholder? what is happening here?:D

Feel free to visit my page at GoFundMe

[placnx]

22 hours ago, sucit said:

Let’s have a little lesson here. 
 

Virus variants infecting hosts with an effective vaccine get weeded out of the genome. In short, we eliminate the genomes the virus works against. Ok, great! 
 

Due to variation within the virus, some variants are resistant to the vaccines, maybe all of them. Result, these variants propagate. 
 

If you are following, we now have a situation where time has past and all we have left are the variants that are resistant to the vaccines. There will always be some of these variants who are resistant to any vaccine we produce, and since this all started with one infected individual… (deduce deduce deduce). 

The point is: the weaker the vaccine, the more breakthrough there will be with various mutations. It makes sense to stop using Sinovac so as to have a higher threshold of neutralizing antibodies among the vaccinated. Those already jabbed with Sinovac should eventually be boostered with AZ. Eventually selective pressure will cause Sinovac to be worse than useless in the sense that it will give a false sense of security. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by placnx
clarify