Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

From your own link:
 

So indeed, all under 20%. Do you even read your own links?

Regardless, the numbers are still very significant, my point remains. And that's only one source. The issue is not binary

Edited September 23, 2021 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

My quote of Gilbert was 100% accurate and supported by links. Kindly show where I misrepresented her, with an exact quote of what I said.

The UK culture secretary, Oliver Dowden, told Sky News on Friday the government had committed to starting the booster programme in September and it would begin this month.

“We will start the booster programme later in September. We’re just awaiting the final JCVI advice on exactly who will be getting that booster and the exact criteria for that.

“I don’t know exactly when the JCVI are going to make their announcement. But we’re committed to it in September so I would expect it very shortly.”

Responding to Gilbert, Dowden said: “There’s a range of opinion among scientists that’s why we have JCVI to give us the authoritative advice and we’ll follow that advice.

[ozimoron]

‘Long COVID’ may occur in more than half of all hospitalised cases: research

 

‘Much of the messaging around COVID-19 has been about the risk of death, and I think that’s created a perception that if you recover from infection, you’re fine,’ Dr Hyde told newsGP.
 
‘In reality, long COVID may actually be an equally serious outcome in terms of its impact on health and quality of life, society, and the economy.’

 

‘While mortality from COVID-19 is thankfully very low in children, the same can’t be said for long COVID,’ Dr Hyde said.
 
‘Data from the UK’s Office for National Statistics show that 13% of children report persistent symptoms five weeks after testing positive [for COVID-19], compared to 22% for the population overall.’

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/long-covid-may-occur-in-more-than-half-of-all-case

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

My quote of Gilbert was 100% accurate and supported by links. Kindly show where I misrepresented her, with an exact quote of what I said.

Then why don't you share the quote with us? I shared 2 quotes from her from that same webinar that don't seem to jibe with your claim.

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Then why don't you share the quote with us? I shared 2 quotes from her from that same webinar that don't seem to jibe with your claim.

I already did, see above, where you'll find this:

 

"The new coronavirus is unlikely to mutate into a variant that can evade vaccines because there “aren’t very many places for the virus to go”, the creator of the Oxford jab has said.

 

Dame Sarah Gilbert, speaking yesterday on a Royal Society of Medicine webinar, played down fears of a more deadly new variant. “We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.

 

Gilbert suggested, however, that illness caused by the virus would become ever milder. She said: “We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”

These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

She argued that the spike protein targeted by vaccines had only limited ability to mutate while still allowing the virus to get inside human cells. “If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

32 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

14 - southern area of Chiang Mai...The wife said Pfizer...

That's a tough one, even 14 is young, mines 9 and I can't see vaccinating her. It's a hard decision to make.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

If you can't repeat my post's meaning correctly maybe better to copy and paste. Again this is not a vaccine that has a proven track record with anyone regardless of age, so I would be extremely hesitant to vaccinate my youngster here in Thailand. 

Again, here is what you wrote:

As a parent of a young child I wouldn't give this vaccine to my kid no way. It's ironic how those with no kids can sit back and quote a person in a white lab coat and believe their data. Get back to me in a decade.

Apparently you think the reliability of one's judgement is related to whether or not you have children. If that is the case, then I guess it's okay for parents to decide not to vaccinate their children at all. After all, who cares what people "in a white lab coat" say. Further, if having children actually is a qualification for the reliability of one's judgement, does that mean that the overwhelming majority of parents don't want their kids to be vaccinated? Being a parent doesn't make you an authority on the subject. Currently, you may have a different kind of authority not to get your children vaccinated. But let's hope that goes the way of parental authority in regard to other vaccines.  

 

[Phoenix Rising]

37 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Of course, everyone who subscribes to quality newspapers is a troll. Naturally.

No, but anyone linking to sources behind paywalls often is. Especially when that person twists the words of the person quoted in the inaccessible source.

Case closed.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I already did, see above, where you'll find this:

 

"The new coronavirus is unlikely to mutate into a variant that can evade vaccines because there “aren’t very many places for the virus to go”, the creator of the Oxford jab has said.

 

Dame Sarah Gilbert, speaking yesterday on a Royal Society of Medicine webinar, played down fears of a more deadly new variant. “We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.

 

Gilbert suggested, however, that illness caused by the virus would become ever milder. She said: “We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”

These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

She argued that the spike protein targeted by vaccines had only limited ability to mutate while still allowing the virus to get inside human cells. “If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

 

Nothing in what what you quote from Professor Gilbert says that the virus becoming like the common cold is nearly at hand. "Eventually" does not mean "nearly".

Here's the Oxford dictionary's definition of "eventually"

"in the end, especially after a long delay, dispute, or series of problems."

https://www.google.com/search?q=eventually+definition&oq=eventually+definition&aqs=chrome..69i57.5369j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's the Oxford dictionary's definiton of "nearly"

very close to; almost.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nearly+definition&sxsrf=AOaemvJpF0saYbLVaqyAVjoz2PS4BL_kLQ%3A1632404928582&ei=wIVMYZHfIvGr5NoPu9qyyAo&oq=nearly+definition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyCggAEIAEEEYQ-QEyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46BQgAEJECOgkIABANEEYQ-QFKBAhBGABQ8d8HWKjvB2C_9QdoAHACeACAAXaIAbIEkgEDNS4xmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiRv5afnpXzAhXxFVkFHTutDKkQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

Do you understand the difference?

 Stop making things up. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

Sure, you know better than Professor Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, of course.

 

How funny that all those who said it was like a common cold got shot-down by wise guys 18 months ago, only for top academic researchers now to turn around and say the same thing, Covid will be like getting a cold.

How’ve don you know what people were saying 18 months ago, you only joined the forum on July 1st of this year?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

Of course its relative to an unvaccinated person, no misinterpretation at all. Again, the study was linked to, I'll do it again for you.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

So the vaccinated are half as likely to catch the disease and multiple times less likely to get seriously ill, wind up in hospital or die from the disease.

 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nothing in what what you quote from Professor Gilbert says that the virus becoming like the common cold is nearly at hand. "Eventually" does not mean "nearly".

Here's the Oxford dictionary's definition of "eventually"

"in the end, especially after a long delay, dispute, or series of problems."

https://www.google.com/search?q=eventually+definition&oq=eventually+definition&aqs=chrome..69i57.5369j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's the Oxford dictionary's definiton of "nearly"

very close to; almost.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nearly+definition&sxsrf=AOaemvJpF0saYbLVaqyAVjoz2PS4BL_kLQ%3A1632404928582&ei=wIVMYZHfIvGr5NoPu9qyyAo&oq=nearly+definition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyCggAEIAEEEYQ-QEyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46BQgAEJECOgkIABANEEYQ-QFKBAhBGABQ8d8HWKjvB2C_9QdoAHACeACAAXaIAbIEkgEDNS4xmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiRv5afnpXzAhXxFVkFHTutDKkQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

Do you understand the difference?

 Stop making things up. 

Obviously you missed the part where she says:

 

“If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

Either that or you don't understand what she's saying. She's saying the virus is running out of options, dangerous mutations are unlikely and it will be like a common cold.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Tanomazu

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Either that or you don't understand what she's saying. She's saying the virus is running out of options, dangerous mutations are unlikely and will be like a common cold.

Here is a more complete version of what she said instead of the selective quoting by the Murdoch rag. She is far from downplaying the severity of the virus

 

The Washington Post spoke with Gilbert and Pollard in separate video calls about conducting research under intense public scrutiny, how worried the world should be about the rise of variants and what it will take to get the pandemic under control.

Should we be freaking out about variants?

Both scientists stressed that virus mutations are to be expected — especially in a novel coronavirus, which is evolving to survive in its new host, a human. The B.1.1.7 variant discovered in Britain is 30 to 70 percent more transmissible, and it is spreading fast in the United States and Europe. Early research suggests it might cause more severe illness. The variants first identified in South Africa and Brazil are also worrying, perhaps more so.

“And as we start to see immune selection pressure on the virus, it’s likely to make mutations that will evade the immune response, either from the first infections or from the vaccines,” Gilbert said.

But she offered reassurance that the virus can mutate only so much and remain a contagious pathogen. The spike protein that the virus uses to bind to a human cell will keep changing, but those reconfigurations in structure are not infinite.

“So whatever the spike protein turns into, the immune system can make antibodies against it, so there’s nothing that’s so bad,” she said.

What would it take to adapt the vaccine for variants?

Gilbert has long worked on seasonal flu vaccines, a complex guessing game but a well-established one. She said all vaccine developers may need to roll out new versions of their coronavirus booster shots every year to confront the variants.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/andew-pollard-sarah-gilbert-oxford-vaccine/2021/02/18/2b633764-6d71-11eb-a66e-e27046e9e898_story.html

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Obviously you missed the part where she says:

 

“If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

Either that or you don't understand what she's saying. She's saying the virus is running out of options, dangerous mutations are unlikely and it will be like a common cold.

 

Another example of being able to see into the future and/or believing those who claim to have the gift.

 

Right now, today the COVID virus is making seriously ill, hospitalizing and  killing unnecessarily high numbers of people.

 

Stop trying to read the tea leaves and go get your shots.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, thaitorrent1 said:

 

I will never be vaccinated and will never get covid, but maybe something too difficult for you to understand ?

I didn't get it the 2 first years, I am ready to fight the next 10 years.

 

 

I’ll accept your statement that you’ll never get the vaccine on face value.

 

 

Your assertion that you’ll never get COVID is as ridiculous as it is self deceptive.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaitorrent1 said:

 

I will never be vaccinated and will never get covid, but maybe something too difficult for you to understand ?

I didn't get it the 2 first years, I am ready to fight the next 10 years.

That's your choice but stop spreading misinformation and proselytizing your political agenda.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.   Stay on topic or face a suspension.  

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, thaitorrent1 said:

So i am just lucky ?

or just as 65 millions people at least in Thailand we are smart enough to protect ourselves ?

ooops sorry, I have read here that we will ALL GET INFECTED ! how stupid am I to forget what you have decided will happen !

 

hahaha can't stop laughing with all the provaxx cattle !

 

 

Yes, luck is all you have going for you.

 

COVID is going to be around for a long time, stay lucky.

[Tanomazu]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s start with the unvaccinated who get infected keeping it to themselves.

Why, the vaccinated don't keep infections to themselves.

 

Or were you not aware that the vaccinated spread the virus?

 

In fact since the vaccines only protect 49% against the Delta variant 51% of the vaccinated will spread the virus, more than half.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Why, the vaccinated don't keep infections to themselves.

 

Or were you not aware that the vaccinated spread the virus?

 

In fact since the vaccines only protect 49% against the Delta variant 51% of the vaccinated will spread the virus, more than half.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

Those who have had the virus are not immune from reinfection and can still spread the virus.

 

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-you-get-covid-19-more-than-once/

Edited September 23, 2021 by ozimoron

[Tanomazu]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes, luck is all you have going for you.

 

COVID is going to be around for a long time, stay lucky.

Lol, as Professor Gilbert has said it will just become a common cold.

 

You got vaccinated for, well, what will be a common cold.

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Lol, as Professor Gilbert has said it will just become a common cold.

 

You got vaccinated for, well, what will be a common cold.

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

So COVID hasn’t killed over 4.5million people and isn’t continuing to kill people?

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Lol, as Professor Gilbert has said it will just become a common cold.

Stop lying.

 

Covid-19 will eventually become like the other coronaviruses which circulate widely and cause the common cold, a world-leading scientist has said.

Professor Dame Sarah Gilbert, whose work led to the development of the Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 jab, told a Royal Society of Medicine webinar the virus will weaken over time and “eventually” become like the others.

“We already live with four different human coronaviruses that we don’t really ever think about very much and eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those,” she said.

“It’s just a question of how long it’s going to take to get there and what measures we’re going to have to take to manage it in the meantime.”

 

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/covid-eventually-become-common-cold-080246392.html

Edited September 23, 2021 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Obviously you missed the part where she says:

 

“If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

Either that or you don't understand what she's saying. She's saying the virus is running out of options, dangerous mutations are unlikely and it will be like a common cold.

 

"So there aren't many places to go" is hardly quantitative. Did she say how that compares to the number of places it has already gone? No. So you have no justification for claiming that she said that the day it will be like the common cold is "nearly" at hand.

[Tanomazu]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Stop lying.

These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

Lol.

[Tanomazu]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So COVID hasn’t killed over 4.5million people and isn’t continuing to kill people?

 

Are you vaccinated?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

Lol.

She does not suggest that the virus will become less deadly or less infectious, only that we will control it with vaccines just as we control the common cold.

[Tanomazu]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

She does not suggest that the virus will become less deadly or less infectious, only that we will control it with vaccines just as we control the common cold.

No, she is specifically saying that the virus is going to be just like any of the other coronaviruses that cause the common cold:

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

She is also saying that the virus will become less lethal, not more, as it mutates:

 

“We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

No, she is specifically saying that the virus is going to be just like any of the other coronaviruses that cause the common cold:

 

"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

She is also saying that the virus will become less lethal, not more, as it mutates:

 

“We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.

 

Funny how you pick and choose. Professor Gilbert strongly backs getting vaccinated. She has declared that your chances of suffering blood clots is greater if you're not vaccinated.  And yet you manage to ignore her opinions on those matters.  I guess you believe that she's only right 33% of the time?

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

No, she is specifically saying that the virus is going to be just like any of the other coronaviruses that cause the common cold:

 

The natural history of coronaviruses is that they do slowly become less virulent over time. This makes good evolutionary sense because it’s against a virus’ interest to kill its host.

If it mutates into a milder form it can remain in the host, replicate efficiently and assure its own survival.

 

So, is the virus that causes COVID-19 taking this expected path? Not yet, say experts, although it may happen in the long term.

 

Professor Lyn Gilbert, senior researcher at Sydney’s Marie Bashir Institute for Emerging Infections and Biosecurity, believes the virus has not weakened.

“If you have serious risk factors, get infected and have optimal care in ICU, you are no less likely to die now as you were six months ago,” she says.

“While I think this virus may adapt to the host and become less virulent, it could take a long time because we have to get a level of herd immunity which is clearly not happening at anything like the rate at which we hoped it might happen.”

 

Peter Collignon, professor of microbiology at the Australian National University, says there is currently no evidence that the virus is weakening.

 

https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/is-the-virus-growing-weaker-20200713-p55bif