Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

No, that is actually not the case. Vaccines only stop the likelihood of infection by 49% in the case of the Delta variant.

That's a misinterpretation of the data. The 49% is relative to an unvaccinated person and does not represent the probability of infection from exposure.

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Gilbert "suggested" that it "tends" to reduce "eventually".

 

I'll wait for peer-reviewed papers rather than bank on her suggested, eventual, tendencies...

 

Thanks tho!!

Sure, you know better than Professor Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, of course.

 

How funny that all those who said it was like a common cold got shot-down by wise guys 18 months ago, only for top academic researchers now to turn around and say the same thing, Covid will be like getting a cold.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I have not twisted what Professor Gilbert has said, I have in fact quoted it and provided the link to her statements.

 

You are in fact misrepresenting my posts, which is indeed lame.

You may not be twisting what Professor Gilvert said, but you are also not understanding it. The key word is "eventually".

 

13 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I'm very clearly about what I wrote:

 

1. Professor Sarah Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine has said that the virus will become more like a common cold:

 

"Gilbert suggested, however, that illness caused by the virus would become ever milder. She said: “We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”

These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

 

2. Natural immunity is longer lasting than vaccine induced immunity

 

"Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity."

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

 

3. Vaccines only provide 49% protection against infection from the Delta variant

 

"The researchers estimated that two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are 49% effective at preventing infection with the delta variant, in line with recent data from Israel and much lower than previous estimates."

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

 

Given the fact that only 2.9% of the world population even have the virus, meaning 97.1% do not have the virus, and given data form the Lancet that of those who have the virus 80% only have a mild or asymptomatic course of illness, hospitalisation of those who have it is only required in 14.2% of cases, and of those only 2.2% have to go to the ICU it is very clear that the risk of dying of Covid is considerably smaller than initially reported.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

 

Given that Professor Gilbert further underlines that the virus will be akin to the common cold indeed one has to conclude that those who have decided not to vaccinate got it right, and those who decided to vaccinate did so for very little protection against a very small risk, yet took on new risks.

 

Clearly those who decide not to vaccinate have come out on top.

 

First off, here's what Professor Gilbert says about blood clots and vaccination:

AstraZeneca shot co-creator says recipients 'more likely to get blood clots from COVID than from the vaccine'

Now her biggest concern is vaccine hesitancy because "we can't hide from the virus anymore".

"I think it's natural to be concerned about reactions to a vaccine, but there's now very, very clear evidence that taking the vaccine is much safer than getting infected with COVID," Professor Gilbert said.

"You're much more likely to have blood clots if you get infected with COVID than if you take the vaccine.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-07/astrazeneca-sarah-gilbert-says-clots-more-likely-from-covid-than/100440904

 

Secondly, you may not be twisting what she says about the virus lessening in virulence over time, but you are misunderstanding it. The key word  you don't seem to get is "eventually.". She notes that it's the tendency of pandemics to lessen in severity over time. Some day, covid will be like the common cold. That day has yet to come.

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

That's a misinterpretation of the data. The 49% is relative to an unvaccinated person and does not represent the probability of infection from exposure.

Of course its relative to an unvaccinated person, no misinterpretation at all. Again, the study was linked to, I'll do it again for you.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

[Tanomazu]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You may not be twisting what Professor Gilvert said, but you are also not understanding it. The key word is "eventually".

 

Secondly, you may not be twisting what she says about the virus lessening in virulence over time, but you are misunderstanding it. The key word  you don't seem to get is "eventually.". She notes that it's the tendency of pandemics to lessen in severity over time. Some day, covid will be like the common cold. That day has yet to come.

Not at all, I think you're not understanding what Gilbert said, she actually said the virus is running out of options. So the demotion to the common cold is very near at hand. It is not a very distant event 6000 years into the future.

 

Read the article again.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Of course its relative to an unvaccinated person, no misinterpretation at all. Again, the study was linked to, I'll do it again for you.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/?sh=299660bd281c

But, of course, you have to survive Covid, in order to benefit from being infected. And what don't you understand about the fact that the vast majority of those dying from it in countries that have high levels of vaccination are the unvaccinated? What don't you understand about the fact that hospital ICU's are being overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

But, of course, you have to survive Covid, in order to benefit from being infected. And what don't you understand about the fact that the vast majority of those dying from it in countries that have high levels of vaccination are the unvaccinated? What don't you understand about the fact that hospital ICU's are being overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients?

Not to mention the vastly increased likelihood of a new immunity escape variant resulting from large numbers of unvaxxed people.

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

But, of course, you have to survive Covid, in order to benefit from being infected.

Yes, and indeed well over 92% of people who have Covid survive it. In fact 80% have a very mild or asymptomatic course of illness.

 

"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic "

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

[mikebike]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Sure, you know better than Professor Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, of course.

 

How funny that all those who said it was like a common cold got shot-down by wise guys 18 months ago, only for top academic researchers now to turn around and say the same thing, Covid will be like getting a cold.

No I do not know better. But I do understand the English language and hers was NOT a strong statement.

 

I also do not blindly believe authority figures and will suggest to you that waiting for peer-reviewed papers is a more pragmatic approach than blindly believing any authority figure who agrees with your preconceived notions.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes, and indeed well over 92% of people who have Covid survive it. In fact 80% have a very mild or asymptomatic course of illness.

 

"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic "

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

That leaves 20% who likely will suffer from long covid if they don't die. Long covid includes major organ damage and mental issues. The public health cost is going to be astronomical. You anti vaxxers just want to downplay the reality for political purposes.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Again, clearly you fail to comprehend the simple fact that you can recover from Covid fairly easily, 80% of people who have it have mild or no symptoms. Whereas the odds of surviving a stroke from a blood clot in the brain are much smaller.Y

I have a problem with understanding? I cited you Professor Sarah Gilbert herself, who says that you're risk of getting a blood clot is greater from contracting covid than it is from being vaccinated. I cited a peer reviewed study that shows the same. Yet you continue to spread falsehoods.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes, and indeed well over 92% of people who have Covid survive it. In fact 80% have a very mild or asymptomatic course of illness.

 

"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic "

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

So how do their survival rates compare to those who have been vaccinated? Pennsylvania is the latest in a long line of states to report deaths of the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated. 97% of covid deaths were of the unvaccinated. And you persistently ignore the effects that the influx of unvaccinated covid patients have had on the availability ICU's in hospitals. 

[Someone Else]

 

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

As I made clear, you can not recover from a stroke caused by a clot in your brain. It is a fallacy that you can weigh that up with quantification. You can recover from covid easily. You can not recover easily from a stroke caused by a blood clot in the brain. If you think the risk of a blood clot in the brain, paralysis, heart inflammation etc is to be quantified away I disagree.

 

That's why I told Roblok, it's not all about numbers. The seriousness of some of the side effects also needs to be considered.

Of course you can quantify relative risk, that's what people do every day in the real world!  You are just afraid to acknowledge a proper analysis because it doesn't bode well for your antivax theme.

 

" You can recover from covid easily".   Some do some don't, many severe life-altering cases filling the ICUs, many more so than folks afflicted with the rare side effects from vaccines.   To say each can't be quantified and analyzed is childish denialism.  

Edited September 23, 2021 by Someone Else

[Phoenix Rising]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Even our beloved Dr Fauci can't answer if people who have a natural covid immunity should be jabbed.

 

http://www.truenewshub.com/summit/fauci-struggles-to-answer-why-americans-with-natural-covid-immunity-should-get-vaccinated/

 

“So as we talk about vaccine mandates…people say I’ve already had COVID, I’m protected and now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone – should they also get the vaccine, how do you make the case to them?” he asked Fauci.

“I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that,” responded Fauci, before going on to claim that the research paper didn’t provide any solid evidence as to the “durability” of natural infection to COVID.

A scientist is not sure and is honest about it because research is still being done and new data is still coming in. Oh, the horror!!!

Much better if "leaders" start pulling things out of their behind and suggest next level insanity treatments, right?

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Not at all, I think you're not understanding what Gilbert said, she actually said the virus is running out of options. So the demotion to the common cold is very near at hand. It is not a very distant event 6000 years into the future.

 

Read the article again.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top

The Times is behind a paywall. i have looked at other sources. So far, unable to find where she said that. I did find this:

 

"Professor Dame Sarah Gilbert, whose work led to the development of the Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 jab, told a Royal Society of Medicine webinar the virus will weaken over time and “eventually” become like the others.

“We already live with four different human coronaviruses that we don’t really ever think about very much and eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those,” she said.

“It’s just a question of how long it’s going to take to get there and what measures we’re going to have to take to manage it in the meantime.”

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/covid-eventually-become-common-cold-080246392.html

 

"Speaking to a Royal Society of Medicine webinar last night, she said that viruses tend to become weaker as they spread.

She said: “We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2 [Covid-19].

“We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”

https://inews.co.uk/news/covid-19-like-common-cold-next-spring-experts-worst-pandemic-over-1213893

 

And of course, Professor Gilbert is a strong supporter of vaccinations. And in fact, is one of the 2 co-creators of the AZ vaccine.

 

That does not tally with your claim that she said it is very near at hand.

[Tanomazu]

17 minutes ago, mikebike said:

No I do not know better. But I do understand the English language and hers was NOT a strong statement.

 

I also do not blindly believe authority figures and will suggest to you that waiting for peer-reviewed papers is a more pragmatic approach than blindly believing any authority figure who agrees with your preconceived notions.

Actually it was a very strong statement to say the virus was running out of options and will be like a common cold.

 

The writing is on the wall in terms of what the virus will become. If we've learned anything it's that it is never as bad as those who believe in worst case scenarios would have you believe.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Phoenix Rising]

40 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I have not twisted what Professor Gilbert has said, I have in fact quoted it and provided the link to her statements.

 

You are in fact misrepresenting my posts, which is indeed lame.

You have provided a link to a source that's behind a paywall. My trolldar is pinging like crazy.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Actually it was a very strong statement to say the virus was running out of options and will be like a common cold.

 

The writing is on the wall in terms of what the virus will become. If we've learned anything it's that it is never as bad as those who believe in worst case scenarios would have you believe.

Right, just like the Spanish Flu, not really bad at all.

[Tanomazu]

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That leaves 20% who likely will suffer from long covid if they don't die. Long covid includes major organ damage and mental issues. The public health cost is going to be astronomical. You anti vaxxers just want to downplay the reality for political purposes.

Not at all. Most estimates for Long Covid are way below 20%, however, in reality nobody really knows.

 

The public health cost of not treating the much more numerous, much more serious health problems that have been put off to deal with, what we are now told will be a common cold, is in fact astronomical.

 

Those who hysterically hype Covid have done so at the cost of millions of people who did not get much needed operations and treatment for serious illnesses other than Covid.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Not at all. Most estimates for Long Covid are way below 20%, however, in reality nobody really knows.

 

The public health cost of not treating the much more numerous, much more serious health problems that have been put off to deal with, what we are now told will be a common cold, is in fact astronomical.

 

Those who hysterically hype Covid have done so at the cost of millions of people who did not get much needed operations and treatment for serious illnesses other than Covid.

You have no idea. Here is some data. Where is your data?

 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/09/16/how-common-is-long-covid-that-depends-on-how-you-measure-it/

[Tanomazu]

16 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

 

Of course you can quantify relative risk, that's what people do every day in the real world!  You are just afraid to acknowledge a proper analysis because it doesn't bode well for your antivax theme.

 

" You can recover from covid easily".   Some do some don't, many severe life-altering cases filling the ICUs, many more so than folks afflicted with the rare side effects from vaccines.   To say each can't be quantified and analyzed is childish denialism.  

No, the point rather is that if you were to be so unfortunate as to get a blood clot in the brain and have a stroke no amount of numbers vodoo would be a consolation, it's much harder to recover from a stroke than from what we are now told will be akin to a common cold.

 

In fact 80% of people who have Covid have a very mild course of illness or are even asymptomatic.

 

"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic"

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext

[mikebike]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Actually it was a very strong statement to say the virus was running out of options and will be like a common cold.

No. Your post is a strong statement. No qualifiers used. Hers was chock-a-block full of qualifiers.

 

Reading comprehension is a marvelous thing.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

No, the point rather is that if you were to be so unfortunate as to get a blood clot in the brain and have a stroke no amount of numbers vodoo would be a consolation, it's much harder to recover from a stroke than from what we are now told will be akin to a common cold.

If that's your point, then as Professor Gilbert pointed out, the risk of getting a blood clot is greater for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. And once again, here's the quote from Professor Gilbert.

"You're much more likely to have blood clots if you get infected with COVID than if you take the vaccine." What is there that you don't understand about that simple statement?

 

And you dont' seem to understand the difference between what the present tense signifies and what the future tense signifies." Some day covid 19 will be like the common cold. But not yet.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by placeholder

[Tanomazu]

16 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

You have provided a link to a source that's behind a paywall. My trolldar is pinging like crazy.

Of course, everyone who subscribes to quality newspapers is a troll. Naturally.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I mean if you can't be bothered to look at some of the most reputable newspapers on earth, that's not really my fault. It's all over the internet.

It's a Murdoch rag.

[Tanomazu]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Right, just like the Spanish Flu, not really bad at all.

Yes, in fact this pandemic is very much like the Spanish Flu pandemic, which had 4 waves. Once we see the fourth wave for Covid most likely that will be the last one and the virus will become a common cold, as Gilbert said.

[pgrahmm]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

What age, what country, what vaccine?

14 - southern area of Chiang Mai...The wife said Pfizer...

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Of course, everyone who subscribes to quality newspapers is a troll. Naturally.

It isn't a question of the paywall or the reliability of the Times.. It's a question of the accuracy of your representation of what Professor Gilbert said. 

[Tanomazu]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You have no idea. Here is some data. Where is your data?

 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/09/16/how-common-is-long-covid-that-depends-on-how-you-measure-it/

From your own link:

 

"In today’s publication we used three different approaches to estimate the number of people experiencing long COVID symptoms. These show that between 3% and 12% of people infected with coronavirus have symptoms 12 weeks after the initial infection; or between 7% and 18% when considering only people who were symptomatic at the acute phase of infection."

 

So indeed, all under 20%. Do you even read your own links?

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

It isn't a question of the paywall or the reliability of the Times.. It's a question of the accuracy of your representation of what Professor Gilbert said. 

My quote of Gilbert was 100% accurate and supported by links. Kindly show where I misrepresented her, with an exact quote of what I said.